Originally posted by Thunderchild
Good thought Snup.
Or being led by someone who is not being led by the Holy Spirit, the blind being led by the blind.Andrew the reason why this helps show that Miracles and signs are not here is because this would also mean that the HS is still miracelous guiding people what to say and guiding them into all truth. The HS was the power behind the miralces and signs in the 1st century.
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Either the HS is not guiding people in direct way (my view) or one of you is not being lead by the HS but by some other spirit or perhaps you being lead by your own brain power and you just believe you are being led by the HS.
Ah - so you did, Cougan: I missed the bit where you asked me to pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
However - you now have a problem. Without the Holy Spirit, one cannot understand the things of God, they seem foolishness.
So then, how can it be that the Holy Spirit is NOT among us, assuming that God desires that we understand the things that are of him.
And BTW - the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit would herald the advent of the beast - which event cannot occur while there are believers faithful to God among those living on Earth (rapture or no rapture).
Question arises - how do you resolve the comments of James with that belief? I cannot reconcile the commonly made declarations regarding grace and faith with the Bible's own account. I can see how grace and faith are reconciled with the need for works, if the interpretations of the actions of faith and grace as usually stated are incorrect.1. you don't know that I am aggainst the ideas of salvation with works involved in any way.
maybe I should have said 'works of the flesh' or 'works born out of mans self righteousness'1. you don't know that I am aggainst the ideas of salvation with works involved in any way.
That unless the spirit leads all aspect of repentence of sin then the work is in vain.
Better put is that the salvation of the soul is only gained by submission to the Father, in love and a desire to see His will fulfilled and to remain in the fellowship gained by the salvation of the spirit.
everything done from our own power has an anti-annointing, since God resist the proud.
David, I began to think over our conversation we had the other day and realized that you contradicted yourself. I will try and keep this short. You stated over and over again either salvation was free or its not. Along this same idea you stated must a man do something in order to be saved. You have condemned your own view by these statements. You said that a man has to have faith in God and believe that Jesus is the son of God. Just as you pointed out, faith alone does not save you as found in James 2. You then said that you have to repent, that is to make the decision that you are going to stop doing those sinful things that are contrary to Gods will. Finally you said you must confess Jesus as Lord. Then of course you stated that you were not ready to make baptism necessary for salvation. Now let me show you how you contradicted yourself. Do you realize what you are saying when you say a man should not have to do anything if grace is a free gift? You present this idea, but yet you say man has to do something in order to be saved. Perhaps you have never thought about this before. You say that someone has to have faith and believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Did you know that faith is a work? See John 6:28-29. How about repenting is that not an act of obedience and also a work? What about confessing Jesus as Lord, is that not an act of obedience and a work? Do you see how you have contradicted yourself? So surely you can see if these things are necessary for one to be saved, that the free gift of salvation does require something on the mans part. Notice James 1:21 The word saves you Eph 2:4-5 Grace saves you Rom 8:24 Hope saves you John 3:16 faith saves you. Rom 10:9-10 Faith and confessing saves you. You agree with all of the above as far as I remember.
Originally posted by SnuP
well said tericl2. Very fine job.
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