Censoring God: Why Is Science Establishment Threatened By Intelligent Design?

[Bible Defender]

And in the case of evolution that one single thing would be ...?

Special creation, failed predictions, lack of explanatory power.

 

[SackLunch]

You couldn't possibly know that something is false without knowing what that something is, right?

I think what Bible Defender is saying is actually what I believe GENERALLY about the theory of evolution. Romans 1:20-23 says this:

For the invisible things of him from the CREATION of the world are clearly seen, being understood by THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Personally I think this is an accurate picture of man's belief in evolution as prophesied by a holy, omnicient God. The very last sentence seems to describe a turning away from belief in God in favor of evolutionary theories which have become idols to so many.

 

[Tomk80]

Special creation,

Evidence? Be specific.

failed predictions,

Which ones, be specific.

lack of explanatory power.

One what issues? Be specific.

 

[SackLunch]

Agreeing with Bible Defender is not going to help your case I’m afraid. Neither is typing “IS” in caps. While we’re at it I’m not sure how a vague link to AiG or a court reporting training sight helps either.

Make no mistake, positing a supernatural explanation for something is about as far away from a scientific theory as you can get.

Well that's not what President Clinton said!

Anyhow, you are either in a somewhat cross mood today or are simply unwilling to look at any evidence that puts a dent in your belief in evolution. Those links are not "vague." They are links to scientific intelligent design resources. It's not supernatural, EmpiricalAgnostic. It is actually based on scientific evidence. Could it be? I say yes.

Check it out. "Know thine enemy!"

 

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

And in the case of evolution that one single thing would be ...?

Special creation, failed predictions, lack of explanatory power.

One pitch and three strikes. Incredible.

 

[Bible Defender]

If evolution were true, we would find a plethora of transitional forms. Right now they only have a few "transitions" that are quite a stretch.

Evolution cannot explain human consciousness, human altruism, or the reasoning power of the human brain.

 

[Phred]

Personally I think this is an accurate picture of man's belief in evolution as prophesied by a holy, omnicient God. The very last sentence seems to describe a turning away from belief in God in favor of evolutionary theories which have become idols to so many.

Nobody's turning away from God... people just don't agree with your interpretation of the Bible.

I'm sorry, but this constant barrage of "if you believe in evolution then you don't believe in God" is nonsense. I choose to believe in the evidence the universe around me provides. If, as you would contend, your deity created all this, then I'm trusting in his DIRECT word, not the translated work of nomads or the writings of political priests.

I know you're certain you know the truth. Just as certain as those who burned witches... just as certain as those who jailed Galileo. I don't trust your certainty. Especially when I see evidence that contradicts you.

 

[Wotan]

Children are gullable you teach them that ID is science and you just going to lower and lower the wisdom and knowledge of the children, if i had kids i wouldnt want ID taught in science as it isnt scientific, it should be in religious studies as the only people that try to take ID seriously are those that want the intelligent designer to be God and therefore have proof of God

 

[Phred]

If evolution were true, we would find a plethora of transitional forms. Right now they only have a few "transitions" that are quite a stretch.

You know this is a lie.

Evolution cannot explain human consciousness, human altruism, or the reasoning power of the human brain.

The Bible doesn't explain Monopoly. It must be false.

 

[Bible Defender]

I know you're certain you know the truth. Just as certain as those who burned witches.

Nice character assassination.

 

[benjdm]

I agree with Bible Defender that Intelligent Design IS in fact scientific. They DO use evidence to support their claims. I don't claim to be an expert, but you can check out the following websites:

www.answersingenesis.org
www.cri.org

OK, I went to the AIG. To the 'Where's the Proof' Article, to be specific.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i1/creation.asp
First 20 paragraphs, no evidence. Then I come upon this whopper in the discussion of presuppositions:

Truth can/should be determined independent of God. However, the Bible states: ‘The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom’ (Psalm 111:10); ‘The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge’ (Proverbs 1:7). ‘But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned’ (1 Corinthians 2:14).

A Christian cannot divorce the spiritual nature of the battle from the battle itself. A non-Christian is not neutral. The Bible makes this very clear: ‘The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one who does not gather with Me scatters’ (Matthew 12:30); ‘And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil’ (John 3:19).

Agreeing to such terms of debate also implicitly accepts their proposition that the Bible’s account of the universe’s history is irrelevant to understanding that history!

So basically, I understand this to say that if it disagrees with the bible, it cannot be true, no matter what. The website you referred to does not give evidence. It claims evidence should be used to support the conclusion they have already reached that the bible is correct; it should not be used to arrive at any conclusion other than that. That is about as anti-scientific as I can imagine getting.


Now I try cri.org. Court Reporting Institue ? Career training for your future ? Well, I admit it is better evidence than the previous one, but still in no way compelling.

 

[nvxplorer]

Anyhow, you are either in a somewhat cross mood today or are simply unwilling to look at any evidence that puts a dent in your belief in evolution. Those links are not "vague." They are links to scientific intelligent design resources. It's not supernatural, EmpiricalAgnostic. It is actually based on scientific evidence. Could it be? I say yes.

Once you wade through all the discredited pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo, you're left with, "It's all so complicated, so an intelligent agent must be involved."

Let me ask you something, SackLunch. If ID is not proposing the supernatural; i.e., the intelligent designer is a product of natural forces, who created the intelligent designer? Another intelligent designer? Any way you cut it, ID leads back to God.

On the other hand, if this supposed intelligent designer was indeed created by natural forces, what prohibits life on earth from being created by the same forces?

 

[Bible Defender]

You know this is a lie.

Nope. They've got what, some tiger and whale bones, then a bunch of deformed chimp skulls? Oh, and some baby horses that transition into older horses.

The Bible doesn't explain Monopoly. It must be false.

The bible does not set out to explain monopoly, you goon.

 

[SackLunch]

If evolution were true, we would find a plethora of transitional forms. Right now they only have a few "transitions" that are quite a stretch.

Evolution cannot explain human consciousness, human altruism, or the reasoning power of the human brain.

I have to agreee with Bible Defender's assessment.

Thus far I have not seen evidence of transitional forms. The ones they do cite are sketchy and even scientists don't all agree on what they are. Problem is, nobody can prove it, and until they do, evolution will just go on as "evidence" with no real substantial proof to back it up.

Intelligence could only have derived from an intelligent creator. The intelligence in the complexity of all life indicates an intelligent creator.

 

[Wotan]

If evolution were true, we would find a plethora of transitional forms. Right now they only have a few "transitions" that are quite a stretch.

Evolution cannot explain human consciousness, human altruism, or the reasoning power of the human brain.

perfect uneducated responce, who tells you these things? Learn the answers to the "unanswered" questions about evolution, there arnt that many holes and the holes there are, is our lack of complete understanding of evolution, not evolution being wrong. Science does have all the answers, but they ask the right questions and we(as the human race) are understanding more and more

 

[Bible Defender]

perfect uneducated responce, who tells you these things? Learn the answers to the "unanswered" questions about evolution, there arnt that many holes and the holes there are, is our lack of complete understanding of evolution, not evolution being wrong. Science does have all the answers, but they ask the right questions and we(as the human race) are understanding more and more

I'm sorry, are you proposing evolutionary theory fo the gaps?

 

[SackLunch]

Now I try cri.org. Court Reporting Institue ? Career training for your future ? Well, I admit it is better evidence than the previous one, but still in no way compelling.

Crimey. Wrong address. Here's the right one: www.icr.org

Life did not originate at the Court Reporting Institute

 

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

Well that's not what President Clinton said!

Anyhow, you are either in a somewhat cross mood today or are simply unwilling to look at any evidence that puts a dent in your belief in evolution. Those links are not "vague." They are links to scientific intelligent design resources. It's not supernatural, EmpiricalAgnostic. It is actually based on scientific evidence. Could it be? I say yes.

Check it out. "Know thine enemy!"

I’ve read ID. I’m guessing you have not. It ultimately suggests that complex structures, such as ourselves, were created by design. This is nothing more than thinly veiled theistic propaganda dressed up to look like a scientific theory. It uses a lot of scientific wording (almost solely when talking about other actual scientific theories) and fails to give a testable alternate explanation for the complexity of life. It’s pure religious propaganda designed for the purpose of weaseling into the school curriculum.

I suggest you read up on it as well as the Theory of Evolution. Any serious inquiry will show you how wrong you are.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
- Sun Tzu

As a side note, I recommend you read Sun Tsu’s the art of war. It’s where the quote you so horribly maimed came from. It may do you some good to follow your own advice.

 

[Wotan]

Intelligence could only have derived from an intelligent creator. The intelligence in the complexity of all life indicates an intelligent creator.

God needs no intelligent creator? Yet he is more intelligent than us all? Why does he not need one and the universe does? (an inteligent designer that is) always wondered

 

[Tomk80]

If evolution were true, we would find a plethora of transitional forms. Right now they only have a few "transitions" that are quite a stretch.

We wouldn't necessarily find transitional forms, since fossilization is a very rare process. Found any fossils of passenger pigeons lately, bible defender? They were present in populations of million all around America and died out. But we haven't found a fossil of a single one of them.

Nevertheless, we have a very large amount of transitional fossils, even though fossilization is such a rare event. Every stage between two larger animal groups has a range of fossils. Here is a nice big list of them. You can search for pictures of each of them on the net.

Evolution cannot explain human consciousness, human altruism, or the reasoning power of the human brain.

Evolution is a theory. A theory is the best current explanation based on the evidence. If we cannot explain something yet, this doesn't falsify the theory.

Meanwhile, I really have no idea why you would put human altruism in these 'unexplained' issues. The others I can understand somewhat, although they can be explained with the theory of evolution, but altruism? Altruism is a very good survival strategy that is used over and over in nature. It's one of the easiest ones to explain from an evolutionary point of view as soon as you leave the 'survival of the fittest' strawman behind.