Censoring God: Why Is Science Establishment Threatened By Intelligent Design?

[Nathan Poe]

12 pages and still no coherent explanation of the tenets of ID beyond the fact that the universe was designed by an "Intelligence"....hmmmmm.

You sound surprised...

 

[Grengor]

If ID was truly scientific, and they had definite proof there had to have been a designer, they'd do research to find that designer. Except, I don't think they do. Do they try and find a designer? Do they have methods of testing religious supernatural theories?

 

[A4C]

If ID was truly scientific, and they had definite proof there had to have been a designer, they'd do research to find that designer. Except, I don't think they do. Do they try and find a designer? Do they have methods of testing religious supernatural theories?

Think of it this way If an archeologist found twwo items
1) a statue carved out of marble
2) a hunk of uncut marble
Would he only be interested in the fact that one had a designer and the other didn't. If the task was seen to be excessively hard to find out the exact person who carved the marble would it seem to be bad science to say that the designer was unknown. Or do you think that it would be good science to say that the carving must have just got there itself as there is no way to know who created it if anybody in fact did?

 

[Nightson]

Think of it this way If an archeologist found twwo items
1) a statue carved out of marble
2) a hunk of uncut marble
Would he only be interested in the fact that one had a designer and the other didn't. If the task was seen to be excessively hard to find out the exact person who carved the marble would it seem to be bad science to say that the designer was unknown. Or do you think that it would be good science to say that the carving must have just got there itself as there is no way to know who created it if anybody in fact did?

I've seen a number of cave formations that looked lke they had to be carved, but they wern't.

 

[A4C]

I've seen a number of cave formations that looked lke they had to be carved, but they wern't.

I am sure you have. Now what did you think of my question?

 

[Grengor]

The question? Not an accurate analogy, so therefore there is no need for a response. Nice try though.

 

[A4C]

The question? Not an accurate analogy, so therefore there is no need for a response. Nice try though.

I thought as much. It wasn't a trick question
Anybody else willing to tell me who might have the courage of their convictions?

Edit: It seems Grengor is not convinced that scientists apply impartial scientific method in all their endeavours

 

[Grengor]

Yes, it's not a trick question. It's a question, that since it inaccurately depicts evolution, then it would serve no purpose to the Crevo debate. Even you can see that can't you? You dodged the point of the post and you refuse to carry out an intellectually honest conversation. I thought as much.

 

[Tenka]

OK kids today we start our ID module.

Lesson one: How to tell if something is designed.
1) Do evilutionists have any theories about how it "evolved"?
if yes, then they are wrong and it is definately designed.
2) Does it look too complex to warrant brain tiring thought about how it came to be like that?
if yes, then it is designed.

End module, any questions? yes jimmy, I really am getting paid to teach this.

OK we seemed to wrap that up in good time, Now for you quicker students who have completed the learn to tie your own laces practical lesson we can move ontothe 2nd ID module.
Finding the intelligent designer.
Alright, everybody open your textbooks to chaper Genesis.
Sir?
<audible groan> what is it Jimmy?
My father says that there are literally thousands of Gods and most of which have mythology to support their creating some or all of the universe.
Well your father is going to have some words with the party right soon I'm thinking and as for you the Equaliser(TM) should take care of your question<fumbles for a small remote and activates it>
<cue Jimmy convulsing as 10 000 volts to his brainstem interrupt his train of thought>
OK, who has found evidence of a designer?
Did I hear someone say God? You sally? That's excellent, I think you're almost ready to graduate the 10th grade. <Cue jealous groans>
OK class, it's time for history.
Can anyone tell me what year it was when the glorius party we all love so much defeated the God hating liberal communist manifesto known as the constituation?

 

[Grengor]

Edit: It seems Grengor is not convinced that scientists apply impartial scientific method in all their endeavours

And where do you derive that from? You made a strawman of evolution, I pointed it out, and this is all you can do?

 

[Valkhorn]

Edit: It seems Grengor is not convinced that scientists apply impartial scientific method in all their endeavours

Well thats where ID comes from generally - scientists who stray away from science to work on philosophy and biblical literalism.

 

[Nightson]

I am sure you have. Now what did you think of my question?

I was simply providing a more valid analogy, cave formations can appear designed at first glance but are guided by natural processes.

 

[mattjay]

I'm curious, what kind of topics would ID students actually study? What "facts" are to be known?

How can the 'hows & whys' of the processes within this pseudoscience be explained?

Would the correct answer to every exam question be..."goddidit"?

This worries me.

 

[A4C]

I was simply providing a more valid analogy, cave formations can appear designed at first glance but are guided by natural processes.

So you say that designer or not designer That is the question Right?

What say you saw a cave that your scientific mind told you it could never have been formed by itself . Would you be tempted to say that somebody must have did it ? Or would you stick with "All caves are naturally made unless we see some guy making it "

 

[nvxplorer]

Think of it this way If an archeologist found twwo items
1) a statue carved out of marble
2) a hunk of uncut marble
Would he only be interested in the fact that one had a designer and the other didn't. If the task was seen to be excessively hard to find out the exact person who carved the marble would it seem to be bad science to say that the designer was unknown. Or do you think that it would be good science to say that the carving must have just got there itself as there is no way to know who created it if anybody in fact did?

If the being observing the statue was not familiar with the depiction, he would have no basis to conclude it was designed. Indeed, if this being was used to seeing uncut marble as an artform, he might conclude the opposite of what you'd expect.

 

[A4C]

If the being observing the statue was not familiar with the depiction, he would have no basis to conclude it was designed. Indeed, if this being was used to seeing uncut marble as an artform, he might conclude the opposite of what you'd expect.

Yes indeed . You sound like a punter who always goes for the "long shots".

 

[Nightson]

So you say that designer or not designer That is the question Right?

What say you saw a cave that your scientific mind told you it could never have been formed by itself . Would you be tempted to say that somebody must have did it ? Or would you stick with "All caves are naturally made unless we see some guy making it "

When we know the natural processes that led to the thing that looks designed, we do not need a designer, this doesn't mean there isn't one, but we do know that a designer is not nesecary to explain the complexity.

 

[A4C]

When we know the natural processes that led to the thing that looks designed, we do not need a designer, this doesn't mean there isn't one, but we do know that a designer is not nesecary to explain the complexity.

Supposing the cave had in it ducts in solid rock that allowed for air conditioning, all day lighting, hot and cold water supply (solar powered) and sewrage and your investigations told you that wind and rain did not have ability to know what the requirements of man were , would you maybe have a clue that some intelligence was involved in the formation of said cave?

 

[Brennin]

This website can give everyone all the information you need...

Ah, yes, Barbara Forrest, who, along with Paul Gross, asserted the following in an op-ed piece:

"Evolution, on the other hand, is at the center of all life science, much physical science (as in geology), and applied fields such as medicine and agriculture."

Which is total nonsense.

...about the real agenda of the proponents of ID.

<Dramatic chord>

 

[LewisWildermuth]

One issue I do have with ID though believe it or not is this. Who will determine the curriculum? There are many competing views out there. Will it be a religious group? Will it be a Christian group? A Muslim group? Which version of ID will be taught? And, CAN IT BE taught "neutrally" as in no outright religious influence?

Of course, as a Christian, I would want it to be based on the Bible. But obviously in our multicultural society I realize that it won't happen. I just wonder how they'd do it.

The problem is that most creationists do not want a religious studies course being taught to their children. If the children see the Babylonian, Egyptian and Biblical (Gen 1 & 2) creation stories side by side they might realize that Gen 1 & 2 is a theological refutation of the neighboring religions and their parents yelling about how evil science can be is out of ignorance about the culture that the Bible was writen in.