Celibacy?

[dayhiker]

celibacy - would never work for me.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I've had multiple Christians tell me, lately, that I shouldn't ever marry. Just don't date anyone. Be single all your life....

(I am not starting this thread with the intent of debating that advice.)

my question is.... could you do that? Would you? why?

it seems like an impossible, illogical proposition to me right now, although I see why they say so.

My thoughts on the matter...............

1. In light of the huge divorce rate for Christian and Non Christian marriages, MOST PEOPLE should not have gotton married to that Person, MOST were not ready for the stress and strain of marriage (yet) , MOST don't possess what it takes for a successful lifelong marriage taking into account their temperament/how they are wired/attitudes/maturity/self sacrifice.

2. Marriage is NOT the goal in life ; loving and growing closer to our Creator Jesus, is. It is possible to live a fulfilled meaningful purpose driven life by remaining unmarried.

3. People get married ill prepared , get married too young before maturity sets in, aren't financially ready, arnt emotionally ready, marry for wrong reasons that are superficial , are not compatible on the major issues, have different faiths , or who go into marriage out of desperation. All of these make a successful marriage near impossible.

4. Speaking from a lot of experience and having been married twice, and from being honest with myself, I am a person who should not be married / I have no desire to be remarried / I am fulfilled in Christ / I have great purpose and meaning to my life / I don't want children at my age / I have lots of interesting friends, hobbies, activities, goals, etc....to fill my life with / and I feel a great peace in my life . Unless the Lord really shows me differently, ill stay unmarried and enjoy all the many perks that come with it. And I wont let sexual immorality occur.

 

[Purge187]

On note the only time you will become non-sexual is when they put a nail on your coffin, it's not something you can train in. Like a-sexual people it's who they are.

I'm not too sure about that. I've grown asexual over the years, and I think part of it is due to the fact that some psychologists think there's some validity to the whole "use it or lose it" thing.

 

[Rhamiel]

2. Marriage is NOT the goal in life ; loving and growing closer to our Creator Jesus, is. It is possible to live a fulfilled meaningful purpose driven life by remaining unmarried.

well said David

 

[StevenK]

This poses the question that I think about a lot though. Does this mean that having a sex drive and any sort of sexuality is inherently immoral, then? I understand that "it's for marriage" (I'm still a virgin actually, although I have sinned sexually in some ways), but I am finding it literally impossible to just ignore it until I get married.

The only way I think I could literally turn it off is by getting castrated- but then isn't that damaging something that god made? Do I just need to reason that I'm going to fail until I finally am married?

I honestly don't know how you do it, controlling your sex drive, but I've failed a lot and even though I've tried to abstain a million times, I always fail.

And it's not like I can just "take a wife" like they could back then so they wouldn't "burn in their passion." It's not that easy!

 

[StevenK]

I'm not too sure about that. I've grown asexual over the years, and I think part of it is due to the fact that some psychologists think there's some validity to the whole "use it or lose it" thing.

I have the opposite issue actually. The longer I go "without using it" the worse and more strong the urges become. I've gone on little abstinence stints where I would make it a few weeks or so but then the pressure was just unbearable. I don't know if my age has something to do with it, but I'm 26.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

This poses the question that I think about a lot though. Does this mean that having a sex drive and any sort of sexuality is inherently immoral, then? I understand that "it's for marriage" (I'm still a virgin actually, although I have sinned sexually in some ways), but I am finding it literally impossible to just ignore it until I get married.

The only way I think I could literally turn it off is by getting castrated- but then isn't that damaging something that god made? Do I just need to reason that I'm going to fail until I finally am married?

I honestly don't know how you do it, controlling your sex drive, but I've failed a lot and even though I've tried to abstain a million times, I always fail.

And it's not like I can just "take a wife" like they could back then so they wouldn't "burn in their passion." It's not that easy!

God gave us all a sexual nature / sexual passion ; he just expects us to treat it with dignity and use it in the venue he has commanded us to so we don't harm ourselves , others, and a Nation at large. Just because we have genitilia doesn't mean it has to be used asap --- that is one of the big lies of our culture based on Humanism not Godly principles.

 

[StevenK]

Don't get me wrong David, I'm not saying I embrace this cultural idea of "all things are permitted" or that all sex is OK and that we can do what we want without shame or something like that.

I'm just saying that I find it practically impossible to be non-sexual. And I've tried. At one point I was even taking a medication that is supposed to slowly shut things down down there, but I stopped because I realized that I didn't want to be totally impotent in case I do marry.

 

[SarahsKnight]

I honestly don't know how you do it, controlling your sex drive, but I've failed a lot and even though I've tried to abstain a million times, I always fail.

But if you've gotten back up again after each time you may have failed, Steven, it is still always possible.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Don't get me wrong David, I'm not saying I embrace this cultural idea of "all things are permitted" or that all sex is OK and that we can do what we want without shame or something like that.

I'm just saying that I find it practically impossible to be non-sexual. And I've tried. At one point I was even taking a medication that is supposed to slowly shut things down down there, but I stopped because I realized that I didn't want to be totally impotent in case I do marry.

Its a grey area as to whether a Christian can/should be sexual with Oneself . But I do know this....I prayed to God to reduce my sexual drive substantially as I knew I was being called to Singleness after my divorce...and he has done that for me.

 

[OGM]

Its a grey area as to whether a Christian can/should be sexual with Oneself . But I do know this....I prayed to God to reduce my sexual drive substantially as I knew I was being called to Singleness after my divorce...and he has done that for me.

Do you think it would be wrong for a Christian to use a drug or remove body parts to eliminate desire?

 

[SarahsKnight]

Do you think it would be wrong for a Christian to use a drug or remove body parts to eliminate desire?

I don't know if you were asking someone specifically that or not, but I would like to give my personal answer on that, if I may.

And that is, I'm not sure. You could probably find many verses supporting either/or, that either suggest that no believer is to do anything so rash with the flesh that God gave him, or that if you must go extremes to cut sinful elements out of your life, then do it.


I personally have thought on resorting to chemical means of castration. And I'm not sure it would do more good than harm in the end.

 

[redblue22]

wouldn't work. you would continue to desire.

 

[Cute Tink]

I don't know if you were asking someone specifically that or not, but I would like to give my personal answer on that, if I may.

And that is, I'm not sure. You could probably find many verses supporting either/or, that either suggest that no believer is to do anything so rash with the flesh that God gave him, or that if you must go extremes to cut sinful elements out of your life, then do it.


I personally have thought on resorting to chemical means of castration. And I'm not sure it would do more good than harm in the end.

I'm curious, then, about your thoughts on this section:

8If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Is this along the lines of what you were thinking might be a justification?

 

[OGM]

I don't know if you were asking someone specifically that or not, but I would like to give my personal answer on that, if I may.


And that is, I'm not sure. You could probably find many verses supporting either/or, that either suggest that no believer is to do anything so rash with the flesh that God gave him, or that if you must go extremes to cut sinful elements out of your life, then do it.

Well if you think about humans always take the knife to skin for all sorts of reasons. Circumcision, nose jobs, liposuction, breast reduction...etc. All methods of removing flesh from the body for one reason or another. I can't see there really being a difference.

I personally have thought on resorting to chemical means of castration. And I'm not sure it would do more good than harm in the end.

Actually it can work. As a matter of fact some prostate cancer patients encounter a large loss of desire when they are on treatments to cut down on their testosterone levels. All some sex offenders are on meds that work.

There can be side effects such as increased likelihood of blood clotting. I know guys that had low testornone levels. Before they were treated for it they had less energy and were depressive. It may be difficult for you to get a doctor to prescribe libido reducing drugs to you. Ironically they would prescribe something to you if you felt your libido was too low. But if you said you did not want libido, they might try to send you to a shrink.

 

[redblue22]

I find it strange that some give the answer of getting married to take care of a problem with lust. Marriage isn't going to take that away.

Just because one does not struggle with lust temptations is not a reason to stay single. Just because one does struggle with lust temptations is not a reason to marry.

.

 

[Rhamiel]

Do you think it would be wrong for a Christian to use a drug or remove body parts to eliminate desire?

yeah, that is probably a bad idea

I think the early theologian Origen did that to himself?
he had a lot of good theology and good ideas
but he also had a lot of bad ideas
you notice I do not call him "St. Origen" because like I said, while he had a lot of good teachings, he also had a lot of bad teachings, he was born in the year 185, so he is an example of what early Christians believed, so a lot of his writings have historical value

 

[grandvizier1006]

I think marriage is a bit overrated. Western society places a lot of emphasis on "not being alone" and such, and that might be because once people grow up in the West they tend to be their own people. In non-Western cultures, people live with and stay close to their families, so they never get lonely even without a spouse.

In my church, I can remember virtually everyone being married and having kids once they got past 25 or so. But realistically speaking, that isn't viable. Some people are inevitably going to be single, and that's not really a bad thing.

The Gospel of Thomas, an apocryphal book in which Thomas's missionary experiences in India are recounted, takes an opposite interpretation of marriage in the Bible. Thomas stops a couple about to get married, saying that it is better for them to remain single for the Lord's sake, and so they call it off. Meanwhile in the 21st century West Christians keep talking about how a Christian marriage strengthens one's relationship with God and puts God at the center and how the church is Christ's bride and blah blah blah.

My point is that the Bible takes a balanced view on marriage--it's neither inherently "good" or "bad", neither "recommended" nor "not recommended". Some people get married, some don't, and if you're one of the people who doesn't get married...oh well. Some cultures probably find marriage to be a burden and would lament doing that, preferring instead to just have a sexual partner to cohabitate with and raise kids together. But even without a ceremony that's basically a marriage, and if you swing because you don't consider it one... just don't call yourself a Christian.

Ultimately, it's up to the individual to decide whether marriage is right for them, and while a lot of people might want it not everyone is getting it, so they should be prepared to deal with this fact.

 

[Purge187]

Self-mutilation is a sin, and Origen should stand as an example of what happens when we allow ourselves to demonize our own God-given sexuality as a constant source of trouble - or when we let modern Pharisees like Joshua Harris convince us of as much. You start to hate yourself, then women, and then God Himself because you begin to view Him as some sort of cosmic sadist.

The whole "gift of singleness/celibacy" thing is grossly misunderstood. I can't post links at the moment, but look up an article by Gillis Triplett called Is It God's Will For Me To Be Married Or Remain Single? He brings a lot of much-needed clarity.

 

[OGM]

Self-mutilation is a sin, and Origen should stand as an example of what happens when we allow ourselves to demonize our own God-given sexuality as a constant source of trouble - or when we let modern Pharisees like Joshua Harris convince us of as much. You start to hate yourself, then women, and then God Himself because you begin to view Him as some sort of cosmic sadist.

The whole "gift of singleness/celibacy" thing is grossly misunderstood. I can't post links at the moment, but look up an article by Gillis Triplett called Is It God's Will For Me To Be Married Or Remain Single? He brings a lot of much-needed clarity.

Where does one draw the line? Is circumcision, face lefts and breast implants mutilation?