Catholics persecuted by the USA

[Hazelelponi]

From your article....

This stands as a stark lesson to the rest of the nation that legislators promising ‘religious protection’ in same sex marriage and civil union laws may not be able to deliver on those promises.”

This is the problem. The law itself was supposedly worded to where the law would not negatively affect religious based charities, yet, it was the very first thing it affected.

It's sad, because of the service these charities provide at low cost to the state. The state can't provide the same service for the same cost.

And yes, I see this as a prelude to refusing to place children with Christians at all..

 

[hedrick]

From your article....

This stands as a stark lesson to the rest of the nation that legislators promising ‘religious protection’ in same sex marriage and civil union laws may not be able to deliver on those promises.”

Note that there is a Philadelphia law mandating equal treatment of gays. I don't believe the court has forced that on cities or states who haven't chosen to do it. The legal question appears to be whether the city can pass a law mandating non-discrimination for programs it is funding.

That makes some legislative proposals difficult. There's a proposal for legislation that permits discrimination. But it's not so clear that the US Congress can prohibit a city from passing a non-discrimination law.

It seems a bit odd to call this persecution. It is no way prohibits Catholics from exercising their religion. It simply won't fund programs that have restrictions based on religion. If you want to be a government contractor, there are things you can't do.

 

[devin553344]

Only the legal court proceedings. In private adoptions the court doesn't decide who can adopt a child.

That's interesting. They say the uncertainty is:

Uncertainty
Private Adoption – Moderate

State Adoption – High

Why is it uncertain?

Also the article says:

Adoptee's Age
Private Adoption – Infant

State Adoption – Less than 1 year old to 18 years old

The adopted child’s preferred age is yet another factor to discuss before determining which type of adoption is best for the adoptive family.

More than 99 percent of American Adoptions’ placements are of newborns and infants.

So I don't understand your statement as it appears to only apply to infants.

Here's the article: https://www.americanadoptions.com/adopt/private_or_state_adoption

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

I saw this news article on CNN's website:

"Supreme Court rejects request from Catholic foster care non-profit that refused to certify married same-sex couples"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics/supreme-court-catholic-foster-care/index.html

And I just can't take it anymore, but there appears to be no course of action that will change it, what the heck is wrong with the USA. The country was founded on freedom of religion and separation of church and state.

Why again can't a church foster children and release them to church member parents as a right of religion. It seems like the state is too involved in church affairs.

So now if my beliefs are towards a certain religion and I can no longer take care of my children, I have no right to deliver them to a church member parents that will raise them the way I know is right?

Did I understand that correctly or am I getting something wrong?

Slowly but surely Christians will be forced to wake up to what's happening. Except, of course, those who think the world is becoming more like Christ in the Isaiah 5:20 kind of way.

 

[Hank77]

I posted a possible response to that a moment ago. The state will take your hard work which causes you to pay taxes and support same sex couples adopting children against known Christian beliefs. So I would agree that it is an attack against Christianity and freedom of religion.

Does that make sense. Just my two cents I guess

What was said was that they didn't want Christians adopting. That is what I was disagreeing with.

First let me make clear that I think that it is a terrible decision to allow same-sex couples to adopt and for several reasons.

As for what you are asking there is the other side of this as far as taxes go.
Everyone pays taxes and very little goes into the foster care program.

It appears that about 50% of US citizens believe that ss couples should be allowed to marry and that gives them the same rights and privileges of other married couples.

So at least where state funding is involved they have to be treated equally. I don't know of anyway to get around that.

 

[PaulCyp1]

The Catholic Church operates by truth and objective morality, not by the whims and sins of society. There is no such thing as "married same-sex couples". Look up the definition of "marriage" in the dictionary.

 

[Hazelelponi]

What was said was that they didn't want Christians adopting. That is what I was disagreeing with.

First let me make clear that I think that it is a terrible decision to allow same-sex couples to adopt and for several reasons.

As for what you are asking there is the other side of this as far as taxes go.
Everyone pays taxes and very little goes into the foster care program.

It appears that about 50% of US citizens believe that ss couples should be allowed to marry and that gives them the same rights and privileges of other married couples.

So at least where state funding is involved they have to be treated equally. I don't know of anyway to get around that.

No one was denied were they? This is simply because they would due to their religious beliefs.

So instead of sending a prospective SS couple somewhere other than Catholic Charities for placement (?) in the foster care system so they can take a child, they shut down 100% of CC foster care program in the state.

That was overkill and an all out attack on religion.. Christianity specifically.

 

[Hank77]

That's interesting. They say the uncertainty is:

Uncertainty
Private Adoption – Moderate

State Adoption – High

Why is it uncertain?

Also the article says:

Adoptee's Age
Private Adoption – Infant

State Adoption – Less than 1 year old to 18 years old

The adopted child’s preferred age is yet another factor to discuss before determining which type of adoption is best for the adoptive family.

More than 99 percent of American Adoptions’ placements are of newborns and infants.

So I don't understand your statement as it appears to only apply to infants.

Here's the article: https://www.americanadoptions.com/adopt/private_or_state_adoption

I don't know why you would think I was only talking about infants.

Private adoption..
My spouse's nephew and his wife adopted his brother's twin daughters about four years ago when they were 9 or 10 yrs. old. Their mother had no custody rights at all. The girl's dad had full custody rights. He, his brother and his wife got an attorney and filed the paperwork. It went through the court system without a hitch. The state foster care had nothing to do with it, neither was there any state interference.

I know of another similar adoption but it was the aunt and uncle of the single dad who adopted his little children. Their mother didn't consent the adoption.

 

[devin553344]

Hank77 said: ↑
What was said was that they didn't want Christians adopting. That is what I was disagreeing with.

Sorry the context was large so I thought I would put my two cents in.

 

[devin553344]

I don't know why you would think I was only talking about infants.

Private adoption..
My spouse's nephew and his wife adopted his brother's twin daughters about four years ago when they were 9 or 10 yrs. old. Their mother had no custody rights at all. The girl's dad had full custody rights. He, his brother and his wife got an attorney and filed the paperwork. It went through the court system without a hitch. The state foster care had nothing to do with it, neither was there any state interference.

I know of another similar adoption but it was the aunt and uncle of the single dad who adopted his little children. Their mother didn't consent the adoption.

I see your point for private adoptions. I guess I was pointing out the truth that it really doesn't apply for about 99 percent of cases. We must consider the children that no one wants to adopt privately. Perhaps they come from Christian homes too, parents that can no longer take care of their children, but don't want their children to go to same sex couples but have no rights on the issue now.

 

[Hank77]

No one was denied were they? This is simply because they would due to their religious beliefs.

Same sex couples were denied.

So instead of sending a prospective SS couple somewhere other than Catholic Charities for placement (?) in the foster care system so they can take a child, they shut down 100% of CC foster care program.

Yup

That was overkill and an all out attack on religion.. Christianity specifically.

In this case it was a Christian organization receiving funding from the state. But it wouldn't matter if they weren't Christian. Say it was any other group and they were receiving government funding they couldn't deny same sex couples either.

 

[Hank77]

Perhaps they come from Christian homes too, parents that can no longer take care of their children, but don't want their children to go to same sex couples but have no rights on the issue now.

I agree.
Couldn't take care of them or maybe both parents died and there weren't any family members who could take them they'd become wards of the state. At that point the parents or the family have no rights.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Same sex couples were denied.

Yup

In this case it was a Christian organization receiving funding from the state. But it wouldn't matter if they weren't Christian. Say it was any other group and they were receiving government funding they couldn't deny same sex couples either.

The foster care system provides money to foster parents for the care of the child..

This WILL affect Christian foster parents at any time they so choose.

 

[devin553344]

The foster care system provides money to foster parents for the care of the child..

This WILL affect Christian foster parents at any time they so choose.

In the article you posted, they stated that they went and took the children out of the Catholics care and took them into custody. So it's already happened At least if I read it correctly that's what it said, it shut it down and removed the children.

 

[Hank77]

The foster care system provides money to foster parents for the care of the child..

This WILL affect Christian foster parents at any time they so choose.

Why do you think it would be in the governments interest to do that?

 

[Hank77]

In the article you posted, they stated that they went and took the children out of the Catholics care and took them into custody. So it's already happened At least if I read it correctly that's what it said, it shut it down and removed the children.

Maybe I missed that article, which one was it?

 

[Yarddog]

I saw this news article on CNN's website:

"Supreme Court rejects request from Catholic foster care non-profit that refused to certify married same-sex couples"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics/supreme-court-catholic-foster-care/index.html

And I just can't take it anymore, but there appears to be no course of action that will change it, what the heck is wrong with the USA. The country was founded on freedom of religion and separation of church and state.

Why again can't a church foster children and release them to church member parents as a right of religion. It seems like the state is too involved in church affairs.

So now if my beliefs are towards a certain religion and I can no longer take care of my children, I have no right to deliver them to a church member parents that will raise them the way I know is right?

Did I understand that correctly or am I getting something wrong?

Four of the Justices are Catholics and one was raised Catholic while the other three are Jewish, so I doubt this has anything to do with persecution.

 

[devin553344]

Maybe I missed that article, which one was it?

I re-read it and I was wrong, sorry

 

[Hazelelponi]

In the article you posted, they stated that they went and took the children out of the Catholics care and took them into custody. So it's already happened

I'm not exactly sure if that's the case, or if they just removed case management from Catholic Charities...

I think we would have to look into that further to make a specific determination on what happened to the children involved in this case (s).

My concern is that if the determination is that the religion is now incompatible with what the state determines appropriate (ie. Such as determining that we are teaching these kids to discriminate because we believe homosexuality is wrong) and as all participants in the foster care program are receiving state funds, that at any time they chose they can decide to prohibit Christians from participating as foster parents.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Why do you think it would be in the governments interest to do that?

Because we have lost the majority, and there is a concerted attack on religious freedom lately.