Catholics only: Pope approves barring gay seminarians

[stray bullet]

<temporarily removed>

 

[PetertheRock]

NAMBLA is the "North American Man Boy Love Association" - they are the propenants of men having sex with consenting boys.
Is this a gay or hetero organization? and if its gay, is there a corresponding heterosexual organization?

They are a gay pedophile organization. I do not know of any hetero organization that would be corresponding.

 

[PetertheRock]

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b16c39b2b18.htm

[size=+1]HOMOSEXUALS ARE MORE LIKELY TO MOLEST KIDS, STUDY REPORTS[/size]
[size=-1]News/Current Events News Keywords: PEDOPHILES, HOMOSEXUALS,
Source: SPC Baptist Press
Published: May 30, 2001 Author: Ken Walker
Posted on 05/31/2001 15:20:11 PDT by bulldog905[/size]

LOUISVILLE, Ky.--A social researcher who has studied sexual behavior for 24 years believes the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) has sound reasons for maintaining its prohibition against gay scoutmasters.

A homosexual cannot automatically be considered a child molester, said Judith Reisman, president of the Institute for Media Education in suburban Louisville, Ky.

But with 17-24 percent of boys being abused by age 18, nearly as many as the 25 percent of girls, there is cause for concern, she said.

Since heterosexuals outnumber the homosexual population about 44 to 1, as a group the incidence of homosexuals molesting children is up to 40 times greater than heterosexuals, she said.

"You're looking at a much higher rate of abuse," said Reisman, a former university research professor who recently completed a study titled, "Crafting Gay Children." "The Department of Justice just released data and the rate of abuse are off the charts."

BSA's policy has been the subject of constant attacks from gay activists, who have convinced a number of school boards to oust the Scouts from board property.

In a story that aired Apr. 1 on CBS, "60 Minutes" also questioned its validity. After California congressman Dana Rohrabacher called the prohibition common sense, reporter Lesley Stahl remarked that common sense turns out to be a myth.

According to the FBI and several clinical studies published in reputable journals, gay men aren't more likely to sexually abuse boys, she said.

"In fact, the largest database of child molesters in the country shows that those who molest boys are over three times more likely to be heterosexual in their adult relationships than homosexual," she said.

But Reisman points to figures from a 1991 population study by the U.S. Department of Commerce.

It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult.

Questioned about Reisman's claims, CBS stuck by its story.

Spokesman Kevin Tedesco said "60 Minutes" staffers spoke with leading sources of information on child molestation, including the FBI, American Psychological Association and several clinical researchers.

The database was assembled by psychologist Dr. Gene Able, director of the Behavioral Sciences Institute in Atlanta, he added.

However, Reisman also cites a past study by Able to bolster her contention that BSA has reason to fear admitting homosexuals to the scoutmaster ranks. It found that 150 boys are abused by one male homosexual offender, compared to 19.8 girls by heterosexual offenders.

In a study published in 1987 in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence, Able said homosexuals sexually molest young boys with an incidence five times greater than the molestation of girls. (Calls to Able seeking further comment were not returned.)

"We looked at the leading gay travel guide," Reisman said of her research. "Forty-seven percent of the 139 nations they talked about identified places to find boys. The average heterosexual travel guide is not concerned with finding children."

Crime statistics also pose concerns. Figures released last summer by the Justice Department reveal that adults are not the primary victims of sexual assault, she said.

They showed that 67 percent of all reported sex abuse victims are children and 64 percent of forcible sodomy victims are boys under 12.

Two analysts with Washington-based, pro-family organizations agree that homosexuals pose a greater risk to boys.

Tim Daily of the Family Research Council questioned "60 Minutes" claim that adults who molest boys can even be called heterosexual.

"I guess you determine someone's sexual orientation by their relationships," said Dailey, who wrote a paper on pedophilia in the fall of 1999.

"If a man is married and has sexual relations with boys, he's obviously a combination. To say he's heterosexual is an outrage. Overall he's a pedophile. Whether you call it omni-sexual or pan-sexual, he's indiscriminate...in relationships."

"Who cares if a guy is married?" echoed Peter LaBarbera, senior policy analyst for the Culture and Policy Institute, a division of Concerned Women of America. "If he's into molesting boys, that's homosexual behavior. It's academic nonsense to talk about these people as heterosexuals."

Editor of the monthly Lambda Report, LaBarbera has been following the homosexual movement for a decade. He said it is disproportionately involved in pedophilia, as shown by the large number of males among sexual abuse victims.

"The homosexual movement is shameless," he said. "Gay activists are the ones who are trying to bring down (the Boy Scouts), a venerated institution which has very little to do with sexuality. They're making it seem those who are against homosexuals are the problem."

Among the reasons Dailey cited for being concerned about the potential for homosexual molestation of boys:

-- Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men and significant numbers of victims are males. In 1996, the journal Adolescence reported several studies indicate that up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys.

-- Even homosexual activists don't try to hide the connection with pedophilia. In The Gay Report -- a book published back in 1979 -- authors Karla Jay and Allen Young found that 73 percent of those surveyed had had sexual relations with males 16 to 19 or younger.

-- A 1999 article in the Journal of Homosexuality by Helmut Graupner argued that same-sex relations with minors should be considered a gay rights issue. The article argued that children wouldn't necessarily be harmed by sexual contact with adults.

This debate flared up in New Jersey when a column by Toni Meyer, senior research analyst with the New Jersey Family Policy Council, appeared in several newspapers around the state.

Citing Reisman's research, she wrote, "We must speak up in support of the Boy Scouts to our community leaders and not allow them to be unfairly and unethically pressured to go against their standards.

"To allow them to be denied the support they need or public privileges they are entitled because of that stance would be a total disservice to, and a potentially dangerous decision, for society and our local communities."

That brought an angry response from New York's Glennda Testone, northern regional media manager for the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD).

"The incorrect stereotype of the gay man as a pedophile is one that has been medically and scientifically debunked," she said. "Heterosexual men were responsible for 74 percent of assaults on male victims and 77 percent of assaults on female victims, according to an American Academy of Pediatrics study (July 1994)."

However, Meyer says those statistics only prove her point -- a small number of the population is responsible for 26 percent of the assaults on boys. "She overlooks there are a lot more heterosexuals than homosexuals," Meyer told Baptist Press. "People don't understand. You have to balance these numbers by overall population to see there's a greater incidence of abuse by gay men."

 

[PetertheRock]

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/041207

 

[PetertheRock]

More Statistics:

• Homosexual Alfred Kinsey, the preeminent sexual researcher in the history of sexual research, found in 1948 that 37 percent of all male homosexuals admitted to having sex with children under 17 years old.
• A very recent (2000) study published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "The best epidemiological evidence indicates that only 2-4% of men attracted to adults prefer men. In contrast, around 25-40% of men attracted to children prefer boys. Thus, the rate of homosexual attraction is 620 times higher among pedophiles."
• Another 2000 study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that". . . all but 9 of the 48 homosexual men preferred the youngest two male age categories" for sexual activity;' These age categories were fifteen and twenty years old.
• Yet another recent study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "Pedophilia appears to have a greater than chance association with two other statistically infrequent phenomena. The first of these is homosexuality . . . Recent surveys estimate the prevalence of homosexuality, among men attracted to adults, in the neighborhood of 2%. In contrast, the prevalence of homosexuality among pedophiles may be as high as 30-40%."
• A 1989 study in the Journal of Sex Research noted that " . . . the proportion of sex offenders against male children among homosexual men is substantially larger than the proportion of sex offenders against female children among heterosexual men . . . the development of pedophilia is more closely linked with homosexuality than with heterosexuality."
• A 1988 study of 229 convicted child molesters published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that 86% of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.
• In a 1984 Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy article, sex researchers found that "The proportional prevalence of [male] offenders against male children in this group of 457 offenders against children was 36 percent."
• Homosexual activists Karla Jay and I Allen Young revealed in their 1979 Gay Report that 73% of all homosexuals I have acted as "chicken hawks" - that is, they have preyed on adolescent or younger boys.
• In a 1992 study published in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, sex researchers K. Freud and R. I. Watson found that homosexual males are three times more likely than straight men to engage in pedophilia, and that the average pedophile victimizes between 20 and 150 boys before being arrested.
• A study by sex researchers Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg found that 25% of white homosexual men have had sex with boys sixteen years and younger.

There are occasional scientific attempts to deny or obscure the fact that a disproportionately high percentage of active homosexuals also molest children. These studies are invariably afflicted with one or more fatal flaws.

A typical example, oft-quoted by gay rights activists, is the July 1994 Pediatrics article by Jenny, Roesler and Poyer that finds that "Using the data from our study, the 95% confidence limits of the risk children would identify recognizably homosexual adults as the potential abuser, are from 0% to 3.1%. These limits are within current estimates of the prevalence of homosexuality in the general community."14

The fatal flaw of this study is that it studied sexually abused children with a mean age of just 6.1 years. Children of this young age are usually targets of true pedophiles, those persons with no sexual attraction to adults of either sex. By contrast, homosexual pedophiles are usually classified as "ephebophiles," persons sexually attracted to pubescent or post-pubescent underage children.

 

[SolomonVII]

Is the NAMBLA a gay or heterosexual organization? if its gay, then is there an heterosexual equivelent?

It's gay, and at least at one time ran its advertisments in gay mags.

Heterosexual equivalent?

hmmm.. perhaps the ayatollah regime in Iran in which the laws condone sexual marital relations with 8 year olds, just as Mohammed did.

IN the west though, I don't think there is a straight equivalent to NAMBLA-yet.

 

[Wolf Georges]

PtR,

In the interest of space I'm just going to respond and not quote your posts.

There are problems with basing so much of an argument on blind statistics. The most obvious one is that many times the numbers contradict each other. In your posting alone the picture painted is that anywhere from 25% to 86% of pedophiles are homosexual. To me a discrepancy that wide raises more than a mild concern for credibility. That leads to the next issue, which is that the people compiling these numbers often have agendas and can skew the stats to prove or disprove any argument. That goes for both sides of the debate. The "fatal flaw" that you raise also cuts both ways. If we raise the median age of molestation victims there are a few considerations that need to be considered. Is a 17 year old boy who has sex with another 17 year old boy counted as a pedophile? Or is it, perhaps counted twice? What about a 19 year old boy who has sex with a 17 year old boy? If we count that, are we also counting states that allow women and men to get married under the age of 18? The standards need to be the same across these types of studies and I don't believe that the are.

Finally, the discussion here is not about actively homosexual men becoming Priests. It's about men with homosexual tendencies, which brings us back to the topic of celibacy, regardless of a Priest's tendencies.

Pax,

WG

 

[geocajun]

It's gay, and at least at one time ran its advertisments in gay mags.

Heterosexual equivalent?

hmmm.. perhaps the ayatollah regime in Iran in which the laws condone sexual marital relations with 8 year olds, just as Mohammed did.

IN the west though, I don't think there is a straight equivalent to NAMBLA-yet.

ahh so NAMBLA is a religious gay group? And tell me, prophet, when do you forsee the beginnings of the "North american man girl love association" ?

 

[PetertheRock]

It's gay, and at least at one time ran its advertisments in gay mags.

Heterosexual equivalent?

hmmm.. perhaps the ayatollah regime in Iran in which the laws condone sexual marital relations with 8 year olds, just as Mohammed did.

IN the west though, I don't think there is a straight equivalent to NAMBLA-yet.

Oh wait!! An equivalent would be Ruth Bator Ginsburg, Supreme Court justice....she wants to lower the age of sexual consent laws to 12.

 

[geocajun]

Oh wait!! An equivalent would be Ruth Bator Ginsburg, Supreme Court justice....she wants to lower the age of sexual consent laws to 12.

oooh good point

 

[PetertheRock]

PtR,

In the interest of space I'm just going to respond and not quote your posts.

There are problems with basing so much of an argument on blind statistics. The most obvious one is that many times the numbers contradict each other. In your posting alone the picture painted is that anywhere from 25% to 86% of pedophiles are homosexual. To me a discrepancy that wide raises more than a mild concern for credibility. That leads to the next issue, which is that the people compiling these numbers often have agendas and can skew the stats to prove or disprove any argument. That goes for both sides of the debate. The "fatal flaw" that you raise also cuts both ways. If we raise the median age of molestation victims there are a few considerations that need to be considered. Is a 17 year old boy who has sex with another 17 year old boy counted as a pedophile? Or is it, perhaps counted twice? What about a 19 year old boy who has sex with a 17 year old boy? If we count that, are we also counting states that allow women and men to get married under the age of 18? The standards need to be the same across these types of studies and I don't believe that the are.

Finally, the discussion here is not about actively homosexual men becoming Priests. It's about men with homosexual tendencies, which brings us back to the topic of celibacy, regardless of a Priest's tendencies.

Pax,

WG

Homosexuality is intrinsically(sp?) evil. It is also a proven fact that homosexuals have a harder almost impossible time at staying celebate then straight people. Not saying it's easy for straight people either. But, the big difference is putting homos in seminaries and in the parishes is like putting straight men in convents to live with female nuns. Gays don't belong in the priesthood period. Gays in the priesthood is the reason we have such a low vocation turnout. That HAS been proven.

 

[SolomonVII]

ahh so NAMBLA is a religious gay group? And tell me, prophet, when do you forsee the beginnings of the "North american man girl love association" ?

Just because I quote you, geocajun, doesn't imply disagreement.

Because the gay community tolerates NAMBLA, the idea of sex with children in our society is now becoming more tolerable.

The example of Mohammed just indicates how malleable a society sexual mores can be, and how tolerating and then advocating what is clearly immoral behavior can rot a society to its very core.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

no, men who molest adolescent girls are perverted heterosexuals, and men who molest adolescent boys are homosexuals which as we know, is perverted inherently.

What if they molest boys and sleep with women?

 

[geocajun]

c

Homosexuality is intrinsically(sp?) evil.

yes,

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

 

[geocajun]

What if they molest boys and sleep with women?

are you trying to be cute? someone who does what you describe is a pervert, but you didn't say what sex they were, because they may be a homosexual depending on that.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Homosexuality is intrinsically(sp?) evil. It is also a proven fact that homosexuals have a harder almost impossible time at staying celebate then straight people. Not saying it's easy for straight people either. But, the big difference is putting homos in seminaries and in the parishes is like putting straight men in convents to live with female nuns. Gays don't belong in the priesthood period. Gays in the priesthood is the reason we have such a low vocation turnout. That HAS been proven.

Homosexuals are perfectly capable of remaining celibate. You don't notice that because those who do may not brag about it.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

are you trying to be cute? someone who does what you describe is a pervert, but you didn't say what sex they were, because they may be a homosexual depending on that.

I am merely pointing to one of the cases described in the Grand Jury Report to show that your assumption that only those interested in sleeping with men will be interested in sleeping with boys.

 

[geocajun]

I am merely pointing to one of the cases described in the Grand Jury Report to show that your assumption that only those interested in sleeping with men will be interested in sleeping with boys.

any guy, who sleeps with an adolescent is acting on a homosexual inclination, and the act is intrinisically evil. period.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

any guy, who sleeps with an adolescent is acting on a homosexual inclination, and the act is intrinisically evil. period.

The problem is that you are lumping all of these things together as if they were all the same and that the problem can be solved if we just eliminate all the people who have this characteristic.

Without careful study of the actual cases, we can't know what went wrong. Hasty generalizations may agree with our presuppositions, but that doesn't make them true. Implementing policies based on these generalizations will create a false sense of security and harm many who pose no threat.

 

[geocajun]

The problem is that you are lumping all of these things together as if they were all the same and that the problem can be solved if we just eliminate all the people who have this characteristic.

Without careful study of the actual cases, we can't know what went wrong. Hasty generalizations may agree with our presuppositions, but that doesn't make them true. Implementing policies based on these generalizations will create a false sense of security and harm many who pose no threat.

umm, you have difficulty seperating objective and subjective huh?
If something is objectively immoral, its ok to "state it sweepingly" such as "homosexuality is always, always, always, evil!"

that comment is always true, regardless of the circumstances which may require more study and show some interesting things, etc.

No matter how you slice it, molesting kids, or homosexual acts are always going to be evil, and that means yes, they offend God.