Catholics only: Pope approves barring gay seminarians

[plainswolf]

Link

Vatican, Sep. 19 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) has given his approval to a new Vatican policy document indicating that men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained as Catholic priests.

The new document-- which was prepared by the Congregation for Catholic Education, in response to a request made by the late Pope John Paul II (bio - news) in 1994-- will be published soon. It will take the form of an "Instruction," signed by the prefect and secretary of the Congregation: Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski and Archbishop Michael Miller.

 

[NDIrish]

 

[plainswolf]

 

[Carrye]

How are they defining "homosexual tendencies?"

 

[BillH]

How are they defining "homosexual tendencies?"

That was my question too.

 

[D'Ann]

Interesting... good question Carrye and Bill. I wonder what will be used to define or be some kind of guide line to determine this stuff. A part of me is relieved that a decision has finally been made. Another part of me is not sure what to think. Will this rule also include lesbian nuns? I would think so.

 

[TexasCatholic]

Valid questions, indeed. Personally, if I chose to go into the priestly vocation, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable living with men who have homosexual tendencies. It would be like putting a heterosexual seminarian to live, eat and sleep in the same place as women of their same age. You wouldn't do it! It doesn't make sense.

People who have those tendencies do have a cross to bear. I feel for them, tremendously. My best friend is openly gay and has acted on it on many occasions. He lives by the "whatever makes you happy in life" theory and for him, that's being with men, he says. I don't condone his behavior, but I do know that it's possible to be celibate as I have been my whole life to this point. The temptations can be pretty tough sometimes. For homosexuals, even more so... as sexual activity comes so easily with them.

I'm sure the press will take this and run with a "the Pope hates gays" message... *sigh*

-Michael

 

[D'Ann]

Valid questions, indeed. Personally, if I chose to go into the priestly vocation, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable living with men who have homosexual tendencies. It would be like putting a heterosexual seminarian to live, eat and sleep in the same place as women of their same age. You wouldn't do it! It doesn't make sense.

People who have those tendencies do have a cross to bear. I feel for them, tremendously. My best friend is openly gay and has acted on it on many occasions. He lives by the "whatever makes you happy in life" theory and for him, that's being with men, he says. I don't condone his behavior, but I do know that it's possible to be celibate as I have been my whole life to this point. The temptations can be pretty tough sometimes. For homosexuals, even more so... as sexual activity comes so easily with them.

I'm sure the press will take this and run with a "the Pope hates gays" message... *sigh*

-Michael

Thanks Michael,

I know some people that I think are gay, and it's okay. I don't say anything because they don't talk about it either. I pray that the press doesn't try to label the Pope and us Catholics as hating gays.

I liked what you wrote.

 

[TexasCatholic]

Will this rule also include lesbian nuns? I would think so.

Makes sense, I guess. However, there's no real crisis when it comes to a shortage of nuns... It seems a lot easier for women to give up the prospect of material success, marriage and even kids, than it is for men. For women, becoming a nun/sister is considered very pious, while some people in the world consider those going into the priesthood to be weak men. Men who couldn't do anything else, so they decided to be a priest, etc. Sad as that view is, it is prevalent. In other words, if saying there can be no nuns with lesbian tendencies cuts down on the number of women going into the religious life, it doesn't affect the ability of the Church to celebrate mass... On the other hand, we are desperate for priests right now.

-Michael

 

[lonnienord]

celibate is celibate no?

 

[Servus Iesu]

I'm sure the press will take this and run with a "the Pope hates gays" message... *sigh*

-Michael

Unfortunately, many Catholics will do the same. In all likelihood this Papal pronouncement will be met with the same treatment as almost everything else that comes out of Rome, that is a concerted (and successful) effort to ignore and emasculate it.

 

[D'Ann]

Makes sense, I guess. However, there's no real crisis when it comes to a shortage of nuns... It seems a lot easier for women to give up the prospect of material success, marriage and even kids, than it is for men. For women, becoming a nun/sister is considered very pious, while some people in the world consider those going into the priesthood to be weak men. Men who couldn't do anything else, so they decided to be a priest, etc. Sad as that view is, it is prevalent. In other words, if saying there can be no nuns with lesbian tendencies cuts down on the number of women going into the religious life, it doesn't affect the ability of the Church to celebrate mass... On the other hand, we are desperate for priests right now.

-Michael

I see. But if they allow women with gay tendencies and not allow men with the same tendencies that could also open up a can of worms in all kinds of areas. Double standards are not a good thing...

I think that I will pray about this because I'm not sure what to think. I'm against sex out of marriage, but when one is sustaining from sexuality... whether they are gay or not... I don't get what the problem is...at the same time, I do. I wish that we lived in a perfect world, with perfect people... LOL

 

[TexasCatholic]

celibate is celibate no?

I think its more about temptation.... think of my example above. A 25 year old male seminarian.... a healthy heterosexual male. Would you think he could concentrate on his religious studies if he was placed to live and study with say... a group of 25 year old WOMEN?... Since women is who he has sexual attraction for... and must overcome temptation with.....

It's the same thing putting a 25 year old seminarian in a group of 25 year old males... He's sexually attracted to males. I realize it doesn't mean he's attracted to ALL males, just as a heterosexual isn't attracted to ALL females... but if a healthy male is put to live with 10 people of the gender that he's attracted to, there's a good chance of there being temptation in there somewhere. That's a good enough reason to have only heterosexual males in the priesthood.... I mean, as a heterosexual male, I have a hard time concentrating at mass when there are attractive women around me. I can't imagine how it would be if I was trying to STUDY religion surrounded by people I potentially find sexually attractive.

-Michael

 

[Rising_Suns]

I trust the pope's decisions.

 

[Father Rick]

While I fully agree with taking a stand against sinful behavior, how exactly do they plan to 'test' someone to determine if they are tempted by homosexuality?

I mean, the logistics of this idea sound like a nightmare to enforce...

 

[stray bullet]

I think its more about temptation.... think of my example above. A 25 year old male seminarian.... a healthy heterosexual male. Would you think he could concentrate on his religious studies if he was placed to live and study with say... a group of 25 year old WOMEN?... Since women is who he has sexual attraction for... and must overcome temptation with.....

It's the same thing putting a 25 year old seminarian in a group of 25 year old males... He's sexually attracted to males. I realize it doesn't mean he's attracted to ALL males, just as a heterosexual isn't attracted to ALL females... but if a healthy male is put to live with 10 people of the gender that he's attracted to, there's a good chance of there being temptation in there somewhere. That's a good enough reason to have only heterosexual males in the priesthood.... I mean, as a heterosexual male, I have a hard time concentrating at mass when there are attractive women around me. I can't imagine how it would be if I was trying to STUDY religion surrounded by people I potentially find sexually attractive.

-Michael

The problem is that there is a huge difference between homosexual tendencies and full blown homosexuality.

I hope they take it on a case by case basis.

 

[Teshi]

It seems to me like the primary effect will be to make people who want to be priests try to hardcore deny any homosexual tendencies they might feel, to convince themselves they're not gay.

I'm waiting to hear more explaination of this policy...

 

[Rising_Suns]

While I fully agree with taking a stand against sinful behavior, how exactly do they plan to 'test' someone to determine if they are tempted by homosexuality?

I mean, the logistics of this idea sound like a nightmare to enforce...

Yes, it would be quite an undertaking, but I think the system is already loosely set up for it. As it stands today, potential religious already go through more or less of a psychological evaluation prior to entering. The evaluation could just be stadardized and modified in such a way so as to either confirm/eliminate homosexual tendencies (as with other sinfull tendencies as well).

Of course this can be very subjective, which is why it's all the more important to have solid orthodox vocations directors who won't encourage everyone they meet to be a priest, but rather, help them find their true vocation, whether to the priesthood, marriage, or consecrated life (as single or religious).

Blessings,

-Davide

 

[Irenaeus]

All these things are dealt with on a case by case basis.

There is a stipulation regarding young men who may have experienced homosexual temptations while minors, and/or were seduced. These may enter seminary if it's shown that they are truly repentant and have excellent qualities.

 

[Teshi]

The problem is that there is a huge difference between homosexual tendencies and full blown homosexuality.

I hope they take it on a case by case basis.

No kidding. There have been a lot of studies suggesting that sexual orientation is a continuum, and that very few people fall on the 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual ends. Plus, there's situational sexuality. *sigh*

I agree with Lonnie, celibacy is celibacy.

For some people the seminary environment might be a near occasion of sin. But for others it wouldn't be.

I and some of my heterosexual female friends have lived with heterosexual male friends without any raciness, even though that could be a potentially explosive situation for some people...it all depends on individuals and the situation.

I also hope they go case-by-case, just as they ought to with any applicants...