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I think one of our friends on this thread has already said that the word isn't there, but what's more important is that almost nothing which could relate to Purgatory is to be found in Scripture, either (to which the reply has also been given that it doesn't say there ISN'T a Purgatory, so we can go ahead and invent anything we want).
I covered this when I said that some of these doctrines have just the slightest of Biblical support at best, and that it's often one word. In this case, it's "fire" and there's little else that can be said with certainty to refer to Purgatory. Remember that it's not the term (Purgatory) that is at issue here but the idea; and "fire" or "burned up" does not define Purgatory, not in the least. In addition, they whole passage is usually understood in a non-literal sense. It's an analogy.
What it is, who goes there, why that is, how long, etc. etc. is required for anything like a confirmation (or evidence) of Purgatory...and that's all lacking. What you are doing with this verse is speculating in the way that believers in Universalism or Reincarnation do when they try to make a few sketchy and imprecise references in Scripture "prove" their theories.
If you think so, you can surely point to it. Remember that Purgatory is a state in the afterlife to which SAVED people will be sent for awhile in order to suffer or be purged of the consequences of Mortal sins they've committed but been forgiven of or unforgiven Venial sins--which means that all of us will experience Purgatory unless we are among the damned who are headed to Hell. Souls in Purgatory can have their stay shortened by the prayers of the living, Masses, or Indulgences which draw from the "Treasury of Merit" in order to apply surplus goodness from the great saints to the Poor Souls in Purgatory.
If all that was verified by some Scripture and cited on this thread, I must have missed it. But if it was not verified by Scripture, there was, in fact, no "Scriptural evidence for purgatory...put down for all in this thread."
If you think so, you can surely point to it. Remember that Purgatory is a state in the afterlife to which SAVED people will be sent for awhile in order to suffer or be purged of the consequences of Mortal sins they've committed but been forgiven of or unforgiven Venial sins--which means that all of us will experience Purgatory unless we are among the damned who are headed to Hell. Souls in Purgatory can have their stay shortened by the prayers of the living, Masses, or Indulgences which draw from the "Treasury of Merit" in order to apply surplus goodness from the great saints to the Poor Souls in Purgatory.
If all that was verified by some Scripture and cited on this thread, I must have missed it. But if it was not verified by Scripture, there was, in fact, no "Scriptural evidence for purgatory...put down for all in this t
.
You're forgiven.Two were "proven" by physicians to be miracles?? You can forgive us for doubting that.
You're forgiven.I don't think anyone should believe what another person says without proof and I have provided none. But yes, the medical conditions were well documented prior to God revealing that a healing would occur and that the conditions no longer existed was medically proven.
One was a sports injury. I was hit by a line drive while pitching in a softball game. A large contusion on my calf was visible for at least 15 years and I was given ultrasound exams every few years to check for blood clots. As I was going to Mass, the Holy Spirit came upon me and revealed that I would have a healing, though I didn't know for what.
I told my Mother-in-law about it and later that day the area around the contusion became feverish and sore. This lasted for about 3 days and then subsided. The contusion and the discoloration were gone. The doctor also confirmed that it had clearly up and he had no answer as to why.
The other incident happened a couple of years later. I had felt and heard a loud pop in my right ear and I went virtually deaf in that ear. The Otolaryngologist diagnosed a tumor on my auditory nerve. I again had the Holy Spirit come upon as I was going to Mass and reveal a healing and later that day I felt another pop in the right ear and my hearing returned. My next visit to the doctor revealed no tumor.
The other incident which has no outside proof was being healed of the flu immediately after receiving the Eucharist.
God is great
The Word of God is Jesus Christ just in case you don't know that scripture makes that clear and it is Jesus Christ that tells the Holy Spirit what to give us.And that is exactly what happens when one rejects the Word of God as the Word of God.
That depends on what God decided to share in the vision. Something cannot contradict or add to the totality of the Gospel.All believers must be careful when it comes to visions and the interpretation of visions. We must keep in mind that the Bible is finished, and it tells us everything we need to know. The key truth is that if God were to give a vision, it would agree completely with what He has already revealed in His Word.
How can a vision given through the Word of God be given greater authority than the Word of God?Visions should never be given equal or greater authority than the Word of God.
Yes Jesus the Word of God is the Head of the Church.God’s Word is our ultimate authority for Christian faith and practice.
Always do.If you believe you have had a vision and feel that perhaps God gave it to you, prayerfully examine the Word of God and make sure your vision is in agreement with Scripture.
I agree.Should Christians expect visions to be an ordinary occurrence? No.
I would agree if the Holy Spirit hadn't come upon me first and revealed a healing would take place.None of these healings would necessarily be miracles, then.
Have you ever had any experience with the Holy Spirit? You obviously couldn't truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God without the Holy Spirit revealing that to you so you must have had some experience.Your reason for feeling that they were miracles rather than unexplained changes goes back to your perception that the HS had intervened.
So in the Catholic view, one can be excommunicated and yet still doing the right thing?
This doesn't sound like the Catholic view. Could you cite a Catholic authority who's saying something like this?
I have never seen the term, "Word of God" (with a capital W) used to refer to anything other than Jesus in the ancient Churches. (Not sure if the Anglican or Lutheran Church does) For the Catholic Church, the term used with a lower case "w" can refer to the scriptures, oral prophesy, or oral Apostolic Tradition. Now, if you have a reference from the Catholic Church with that I will happily stand corrected.Even the Pope referred to the Bible as the Word of God when calling on Catholics to be more active in Bible Study, Yarddog.
Good to know. Then I would add that there is not even a "suggestion" of such an event or place.
How very sad. My dear friend, you are welcome to believe as you wish but the real truth here is that there has not been ONE Single verse put down to validate Purgatory....NOT ONE!
There can never be one because there are NONE.
The real problem here with Purgatory stems from something else.
You see, Catholic theology does not accept the final and full sufficiency of Christ’s once-for-all atonement that YOUR 1st Pope taught in 1 Pet. 3:18.
The Catholic soteriological system is fraught with ideas of self-atonement-works that must be done to merit forgiveness for past sins. That is where the root grows from and it is a flaw in the foundation. When the foundation is flawed, the cracks wil get bigger and bigger hence PURGATORY.
Purgatory allows for those meritorious efforts (i.e. suffering) to atone for sin after death. That is works-man doing theology which the Bible condems.
Second, Catholic doctrine teaches an unbiblical idea of penalty and guilt. It holds that “absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused…he must ‘make satisfaction for’ or ‘expiate’ his sins.
This satisfaction is also called ‘penance.'”
Purgatory then according to the RCC's own teaching is the final act of penance that removes the penalty of sin hence the in-biblical theology of works = salvation.
But as YOU said......you believe it anyway.
1 Tim. 4:1 speaks clearly to this situation.......
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons".
Funny! There is NO Purgatory in the Scriptures to be believed!
Tell you what.....you post one Bible Scripture from the canon of 66 books that says "PURGATORY" and I will buy you chocolate covered Crispy Crème donut!
I don't believe that's correct. You made a series of general statements that might refer to Purgatory or to any number of other explanations. You also said that fire is Purgatory, which is like explaining an automobile to someone who had never seen one by saying it's a big piece of metal. Well, in a way, that's so, but it certainly doesn't separate the automobile from a hundred other and quite different items.I have given the evidence in scripture, it is you who decided to misinterpret it ."
I don't believe that's correct. You made a series of general statements that might refer to Purgatory or to any number of other explanations. You also said that fire is Purgatory, which is like explaining an automobile to someone who had never seen one by saying it's a big piece of metal. Well, in a way, that's so, but it certainly doesn't separate the automobile from a hundred other and quite different items.
Purgatory in fact is not referred to in Scripture--not Purgatory as identified by the Catholic Church. And I listed a number of particulars that that Church has made be part of the raison d'etre of Purgatory. What's more, now that Purgatory has been redefined by the RCC, even the sketchy references you pointed to no longer apply.
You can quote the word 'Trinity' from scripture? The words 'Sola scripture' from scripture?
The point is.....does the said word or term accurately reflect what the Scriptures teach.?
The goal of any Christian whose heart burns for knowledge and truth is to investigate the facts of Scripture so that you can see from the process of that investigation just how the Bible teaches us about how God exists.
Historically, if you choose to do the work you will find that the church has believed that God exists in a Trinity. The Triune God personality, 3 Gods in ONE person, is actually exclusive to the Christian doctrine and is a truth of Scripture.
If it were, you could point to the verses that teach who goes there, why they do, what the place is for, and everything that makes "Purgatory" what the RCC says it is--just as the Bible defines Heaven and Hell. I have already put these questions out there for anyone to act on and, of course, no one has been able to show that Purgatory is in the Bible.I disagree. Purgatory is in scripture.
You can quote the word 'Trinity' from scripture? The words 'Sola scripture' from scripture?
Still, those words are not in scripture. Much like the word purgatory. But, as with Trinity, it can be found in the scriptures. Yet, you fail to see it, or more correctly, refuse to see it!
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