Catholics CAN'T Answer This Question!!!

[Antig]

No reason to apologize! I do belong to a church but it is independent and non-denominational.

I do that for the specific reason of avoiding personal comments and arguments.

Oh, so it's ok for you to then give out personal comments regarding Catholicism? To me, that is very hypocrital. Sorry

 

[Antig]

Not so my friend.

Posting 1 Corth. 3:15........
"If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."

And then saying that is proof of Purgatory is NOT validating Purgatory.

Scripture context will determine what the Scripture is talking about not just posting something a Blogger site says is valid.

It is your personal view only. I rather stick to the Authority of the Catholic church, as given it by Jesus Christ. But thanks anyway.

Blessings

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

Zero according to you!

Blessings

 

[Major1]

It is your personal view only. I rather stick to the Authority of the Catholic church, as given it by Jesus Christ. But thanks anyway.

Blessings

That is not quit the truth now is it?

My view is not the bottom line. I am just an old country boy my friend and my view is really not important at all. My view comes from actually reading the Scriptures and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach me as is the case with everyone else who is a Bible believer.

I do however believe that if you will use the search option on your computer and look up the Bible Scriptures and what Bible say and teach, you can learn from them the meanings of those Scriptures.

Of course.....it is your choice.

 

[Major1]

Oh, so it's ok for you to then give out personal comments regarding Catholicism? To me, that is very hypocrital. Sorry

What then is the "personal comment" made to you?

 

[Major1]

You have a double standard for us Catholics . It is inescapable fact that purgatory is in scripture you choose not to interpret that way . I have a friend who used to be a oneness pentecostal He said because the word Trinity is not used in the Bible it was not true . He would use other scriptures to make his point . That God was one in the same person manifest in different roles . Not personalities in themselves .

The very last person that I would use as a quotable person would be a "Oneness Pentecostal".
That is ROFLOL!!!!!

I reject your opinion of a double standard. As A bible believer I for one have only ONE standard.....
the Bible.

What is says is what it means and it is our responsibility to read it, understand it and try to obey it.

 

[Major1]

Zero according to you!

Blessings

Honestly.........Just post those Scriptures and put an end to this teenage back and forth stuff.

No, it is NOT according to me at all or in any way. Just post those Scriptures and stop the deflection.

 

[Albion]

Just like explaining heaven to a non believer .You see that is the problem with a number of churches and their doctrines . Each church interprets scripture according to their bias . It is referred to in scripture just as the term Trinity is referred to in scripture .

Again with that "Trinity" argument. I know it's a favorite, but there isn't a single person here who has argued against Purgatory on account of the absence from Scripture of the word itself. On the contrary, we have said--repeatedly--that the concept, the idea, is not to be found there.

 

[Major1]

Yes no amount of evidence will change some peoples opinion . It just deny , deflect , ....ect . We do have a better argument and defense . Got to keep trying .

I can not agree with your comment.

There has been NO evidence produced by a Catholic believer my dear friend.

Why not just post the Scriptures from the Bible that validate the ROSARY?

 

[Albion]

You have a double standard for us Catholics . It is inescapable fact that purgatory is in scripture you choose not to interpret that way .

If it were there you could show it to us.

I have a friend who used to be a oneness pentecostal He said because the word Trinity is not used in the Bible it was not true . He would use other scriptures to make his point . That God was one in the same person manifest in different roles . Not personalities in themselves .

So do you think he was right about that? If not, why not?

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

My dear friend. I have no desire to argue with you and I certainly do not want to give the impression of disrespecting you......BUT you are completely in error here. YOU are the one whose eyes are closed to Scriptures.

The truth is just this simple......There are NO Scriptures to validate............
Purgatory.
Sinlessness of Mary.
The Assumption of Mary.
The Veneration of Mary.
Praying the ROSARY.

Please understand, I am that there are NONE, ZERO Scriptures to validate those teachings and that is only 6 of probably 30 or 40. Do you want to go on????

You are correct there are limited scriptures for this so the Bible implies these teachings . Just as there are no scriptures for altar calls , saying the sinner's prayer or even accepting Jesus as your Lord and savior .(which I don't disagree with ) these things are not in scripture .But you do the same thing and say Scripture implies this . So please hold me to the same standard .

Ok lets start with the sinless Mary . Both Adam and Eve were created sinless so it is not an impossibility for him. Christ is the second Adam, Rom 5:14,and took the flesh from Mary .. The Ark of the Covenant carried the Word of God and Mary carried in her womb the Word of God in her flesh . Gabriel greet Mary by saying " Hail full of Grace , the Lord is with thee."which is a translation is Greek word Kecharitomene . On the other hand another greek word " full of grace" which was used for Christ in John 1:14 and stephen Acts 6:8 was the word Pleres Charitos. Scripture says she was "highly favored " which is the Greek work Charis .Charis is to be looked on as looked upon as favored but a transformation of this favor or Grace.Kecharitomene indicates perfection of Grace which indicates was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her conception .. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was by grace and privilege of God in view of the merits of Jesus Christ to preserve her from original sin .Mary did require a savior but by special intervention was preserved therefore redeemed by the Grace of Christ by anticipation . Mary called her self lowly Lk 1:48 which mean she was humble .This doctrine was defined by Pope Pius in 1854 .dogmas are defined formally when there is controversy that needs to be cleared up or when the Magisterium think the faithful can be helped by particular emphasis being drawn to some existing belief .

The Assumption is the fact that Mary did not die .We see in the OT Enoch " walked with God and he was seen no more" Gen 5:25 .He was translated so not to see death Heb 11:15. Then there was Elijah who was taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot 2 Kings 2:1-13. The Bible does not say what happened to Mary. Pope Pius exercise papal infallibility that after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into heave. You are correct that their is no scriptural proof .the possibility of a bodily assumption before the Second coming is referenced in 1 Cor 15:23 and Math 27:52-53.In the Early Church each Church would include the tombs of the apostles yet no Church claims her remains .

Mary as the mother of God is another issue .The early church there was a heresy of Nestorianism where the bishop Nestorian in 429 said that Mary was the Mother of Christ but not the Mother of God . Protestant shrink from the Catholic Statement that God was born of Mary . To acknowledge the Theotokos ( God bearer) is to believe in God the Son made man . Some evangelicals object to " Mother of God which honors Mary too much . It is easy for them to fall into Nestorianism who held that the union of the two natures of christ was little more a moral union of two distinct persons , the divine son and the human Jesus . Or as my friend put it Mary only gave birth to the human Jesus , but not acknowledging that Jesus was full human and fully God even at his conception . However scripture states ; Lk 1:43 "Elizabeth calls her the mother of my Lord" Mt 1:23 Vergin to bare a son="God is with us". Lk 1:35 The child will be called the holy,the Son of God Gal4:4 God sent his son ,born of a woman.

I will include scripture were saints and angels have been venerated or honored . Jos 5:14 Joshua fell prostrate before a angle, Dan 8:17 Daniel fell prostrate in terror before Gabriel , Tob 12:16 Tobit fell prostrate before a angel . It did not mean they were worshiping them . We honor Saints as examples to all of us and who are part of the body of Christ . While the Bible does not explicitly refer to the veneration and invocation of saints there there is scriptural warrant as I stated in scripture above .The veneration of Angles is predicated on their supernatural dignity , which comes from their union with God (Mt 18:10)Since the saints are also united with God( 1 Cor 13:12;1 John 3:2) it follows they are also worthy of veneration .The ancient Jews believed in the intercession of saints Judas Maccabaeus saw how 2 deceased men , the high priest Onias and the profit Jeremiah intercede with God for the Jews 2 Macc 15:11-16. And Jeremiah himself wrote that Moses and Samuel made intercession for the Jews after their deaths . We learn that the angels and saints place the prayers of the holy on earth at God's feet tob 12:12;Rev 5:8,8:3 . The verses also mean apparently that the angels and saints are the ones prayed to and they take these prays to God . Lazarus is seen in Abraham's bosom , Dives was asking him to intercede for him across the unbridgeable abyss then why should we not be able to pray to the Saints across an abyss they have successfully crossed over . Yes we can go to God ,but we can ask each other to pray for each other (interceed) and ask saints as well . I have a whole army behind me.We also have the early Church documents and the early Church fathers to support these practices .

The rosary is not in scripture and your issue would be that we engage in " vain repetition". Scripture shows Jesus repeating his pray 3 times Mat 26:39,42,44 . I Psalm 136 is repetitious . The "vain repetition" in scripture .was a a warning to pagans that their prayers vere vain because the gods they believed in did not exist.it is true that Jesus was warning us of mechanical ,mindless,repetitive prayer mantras , because they cheap imitations of from the heart prayers.He wasn't condemning the repetition of prayer all together . Jesus taught us to to pray the Our Father, but not the Our Father only . However there are many forms of prayer such as; the rosary, meditation , praying the psalms, open prayer.

Lastly I would like to deal with Mary's perpetual virginity , which Martin Luther , John calvin and Ulrich Zwingli believed in . Martin Luther said "When Matthew 1:25 says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth a son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary ,it means that he never did know her." Other scriptures include Lk 1:34 " How can this be I don't know man". Lk 2:41-51 age 12 jesus evidently the only son of Mary. In Mt 13:55-56 Brothers James, Joseph ,Simon and Jude, scripture shows that in mt 13:55-56 Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph . In John 19:26 Mary is entrusted to John not a younger sibling as was the custom. Jn 7:3-4 it was not custom for younger brother to advise a elder brother .( they were cousins and in the Ariamic which Jesus spoke the word cousin was also referred to as Brothers and sisters ) In addition when I call you a brother that doesn't mean I am your biological brother as they called each other in scripture. Now referring to Mat 1:2" Joseph knew her not until she bore first born". John Calvin said " and besides this Our Lord Jesus Christ is called the fist born. This is not because there was a second or a third, but because the Gospel writer is praying regard to precedence." . You can google these Protestant reformers or the early Church Fathers regarding this subject, you will be surprised .

 

[Phil 1:21]

Just as there are no scriptures for altar calls , saying the sinner's prayer or even accepting Jesus as your Lord and savior .(which I don't disagree with ) these things are not in scripture .

You honestly believe there is no scriptural support for turning one's life over to Jesus and for repenting of sins?

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

If it were there you could show it to us.


So do you think he was right about that? If not, why not?

You say everything has to be in scripture and when I show that certain beliefs you hold are not in scripture like the sinners prayer

 

[Albion]

You are correct there are limited scriptures for this so the Bible implies these teachings . Just as there are no scriptures for altar calls , saying the sinner's prayer or even accepting Jesus as your Lord and savior .(which I don't disagree with ) these things are not in scripture

I would say that the need for accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior is indeed in Scripture, but the fact is that you're focusing on church practices, not doctrines. With Purgatory, we're talking about a doctrine.

 

[Almost there]

I consider tradition not rooted in the clear teaching of the bible to be a bad thing.

I hate the churches have American flags in their sanctuaries...

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

You honestly believe there is no scriptural support for turning one's life over to Jesus and for repenting of sins?

There is of course but the Bible does not describe a sinners prayer and it is not in the bible. All the Bible says is believe and be baptize ." Peter says Baptism now saves you"1 Peter 3:21 and yes you must repent of your sins Acts 2:37-38 "repent, be baptized,receive the Holy Spirit ".

We are born again through water and spirit Jesus was Baptized in water and the Holy spirit descended on him. The apostles Baptized, not asking people to say a sinners prayer .

 

[Phil 1:21]

There is of course but the Bible does not describe a sinners prayer and it is not in the bible. All the Bible says is believe and be baptize ." Peter says Baptism now saves you"1 Peter 3:21 and yes you must repent of your sins Acts 2:37-38 "repent, be baptized,receive the Holy Spirit ".

We are born again through water and spirit Jesus was Baptized in water and the Holy spirit descended on him. The apostles Baptized, not telling people to say a sinners prayer .

Luke 18:9-14

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

I consider tradition not rooted in the clear teaching of the bible to be a bad thing.

I hate the churches have American flags in their sanctuaries...

All depend how each church interpret the Bible each Church has a tradition/interpretation of beliefs from their founder . Read my previous posts .I would hate to have to retype every defense I have made .

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

Luke 18:9-14

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

I say amen to those references but show me your sinners prayer in the Bible and and were its prescribed.

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

I would say that the need for accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior is indeed in Scripture, but the fact is that you're focusing on church practices, not doctrines. With Purgatory, we're talking about a doctrine.

Show me exactly were it says I must " accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior " its not in scripture . I dont disagree with that statement as an idea .but it is not stated in scripture .