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Hmmm. Is it? Or is contrition and a commitment what's really required, as opposed to a formal declaration?
Indeed, it IS repentance that is needful...Hmmm. Is it? Or is contrition and a commitment what's really required, as opposed to a formal declaration?
God saves... God alone... None other than God...
Because I wrote "SOME of us"? And then "the REST of us"?
I am in both camps...
And so, my dear Brother, are you...
I simply asked a question: HOW SAD are you? And gave some examples of how sad you might actually be... Then I confessed that TO ME your "HOW SAD" comment seemed smug, and even, I might add, snarky... I PRAY I am wrong, and begged you to prove me wrong...
Well, the Pharisee cited all that he had done and even is doing in his self defense...
I thank God that you did so...
God bless this last - It forms the matrix of what I like to think of as a START...
I am glad you know God...
I did not question your motives for what you DO pray for...
I questioned your prayers for the one of whom you said: HOW SAD...
Arsenios
And if you so desire, you can say that it is God Alone Who BESTOWS His Salvation on ANY man...Yes. Ultimately it comes down to genuine faith in Jesus Christ. This faith works within the believer to produce works which God has prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I am hardly typical, mind you...
Isaiah foretold of my ilk: "They will find Me who were not seeking Me..."
So no, it is not required... As Scripture affirms:
"I will have Mercy on whom I WILL have Mercy"
Did not Christ save the Wise Thief who confessed Him on the Cross?
Confession, you see, is the first step of repentance...
Without repentance, there is no salvation...
I was so fed up with self-sanctimonious so-called Christians that none would I ever allow anywhere near me... Nor did I ever pray any prayer of repentance at all... I knew God outside ALL these understandings... I found the God I scorned and avoided... I was not seeking Him...
God Saves, because only He has Salvation to Give to us...
Because He IS Salvation,
and ONLY He has Himself to GIVE...
You did then re-define what she was talking about, yes?
And if you did, you owe her an apology...
No matter how many missions you have been on...
Humility, my Brother...
It is everything!
Arsenios
It was said "HOW SAD" simply because that was a window into the soul of a religious person who has said she was a Catholic but was condemning those who said a "Sinners Prayer" and in fact was questioning the process itself.
That should make everyone SAD IMO as each one of us who claims the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour should know what a sinners prayer is if they had said one.
Where it was said and how It was said is not important to me.
Repentance is the key and without we would all be lost in our sin.
Your post of...........
"Then I confessed that TO ME your "HOW SAD" comment seemed smug, and even, I might add, snarky... I PRAY I am wrong, and begged you to prove me wrong... "
That my friend is YOUR opinion only.
You do not have to pray to be wrong, in this case YOU are wrong. I would suggest that you come back to the thread in question and lets move away from our "Personal Opinions" which are in fact not called for neither are they needed.
You said.............
"Nor did I ever pray any prayer of repentance at all... I knew God outside ALL these understandings...".
I find your confession to be self serving and arrogant.
I find ever more difficult to grasp your words.
And if you so desire, you can say that it is God Alone Who BESTOWS His Salvation on ANY man...
And that He is now doing so THROUGH the Faith of Christ which He discipled to His Apostles...
And thereby did Christ establish His Own Body of His Salvation upon the earth...
Arsenios
As I recall, she but asked if the Sinner's Prayer, which she had heard at every Evangellical church service she grew up in, was found in the Bible...
It is you who took humbrage at what you regarded as the impudence of such a question, and twisted it into being a CONDEMNATION of those praying it? The TRUTH is that she was but holding your feet to your own fire which is Scripture Alone by which you condemn the Latin Church... And then you remarked HOW SAD for her for being such a CONDEMNER of Evangellicals... You accused her of what she did not do... You owe her an apology...
Well, that particular one, as one's entry into Christ, is NOT Biblically provided - You will not find that prayer prescribed in the Bible... That was her whole point... And you twisted it into something else...
And you are wise enough to see the aftermath of the Evangellical sinner's prayer - How so few keep the Grace which it does afford, as you mentioned...
Then I am still praying for you to prove me wrong...
Please prove me wrong...
I will continue to pray that YOU prove me wrong...
Arsenios
I put smiley faces to show we were most likely talking past each other. The image was for both of us.I think she was referring to the sinner's prayer used at altar calls by Evangellicals...
It would seem that you spun that into "any and all prayers by sinners"...
And then you have mocked her...
And have all snarkily congratulated each other on your great victory...
OR
"How the West was LOST"
An old un-thriller whose pages are lost in the dustings of time...
Arsenios
You said.............
"Nor did I ever pray any prayer of repentance at all...
I knew God outside ALL these understandings...".
I find your confession to be self serving and arrogant.
I find (it) ever more difficult to grasp your words.
The basic message of the gospel is change. To be forgiven of sins, you need to change. To please God you need to change. To receive eternal life you need to change. This emphasis on change is focused in the word "repent."
Repentance is "a change of mind" -it is a change of location, it is also a decision, a choice, a determination of the heart, a deliberate exercise of the will - in which one determines to act differently in the future than he has in the past.
To be saved as I understand it a person must REPENT and that is done by a conversation with the Lord Jesus but you just said that you never did that.
Repentance Is Essential in order to Receive God's Forgiveness.
2 Peter 3:9 - .......
"God is not willing for men to perish but wants all to come to repentance. The alternative to repentance is perishing!"
Ezekiel 18:21-23......
"Wicked men must turn from evil and do right or they will die (spiritually).
God does not want us to die. He is willing to forgive, but first we must be willing to change. Before we can change, we must decide to change - that is repentance.
Unfortunately, the traditions of men do not become Holy (let alone divine revelation or the word of God) simply because the "Apostolic Body of Christ" chooses to say that they are holy and/or from God.
Peter says "Baptism...now saves you " his words not mine .or Scripture says " believe and be baptised ". It does not say 'say a sinners prayer' .Scripture defines how we are saved . Repentance is next and separate topic .What difference does it make if a sinners prayer is said at an alter call, or the back yard?
A prayer of repentance is required to be saved, is it not?
Your my hero. Still haven't worked technical stuff . And AMEN I sayIndeed, it IS repentance that is needful...
Which is why the command "BE YE REPENTING/KEEP ON REPENTING"
is the first word of the Gospel of Jesus Christ,
Who overcame the world,
Whom we are to FOLLOW by OVERCOMING the world
The world of our sins
by living lives of REPENTANCE to the end...
So my question for anyone who embraces the Bible,
Is there ANY understanding in the above
that is NOT confirmed by the Bible?
Repent and be Baptized...
FOR...
The Kingdom of Heaven...
Is AT HAND...
Arsenios
How do you justify the thousands of contradictions amongst evangelicals Regarding interpretations of scripture=doctrines=traditions . Who does not have the traditions of men, then ? In effect each group makes a choice to declare what is truth and contradict each other .
How do you justify the thousands of contradictions amongst evangelicals in regard to each churches contradiction of each other Regarding interpretations of scripture=doctrines=traditions . Who does not have the traditions of men, then ? In effect each group makes a choice to declare what is truth .
Anyone who studies Scriptures know that the "sinners prayer" is not in the Bible...
That isn't what we do either.You're talking different churches, of course. But the conflicting interpretations of Scripture are not resolved by turning to something OTHER than the word of God, specifically the theories of men.
We don't pretend anything. We simply hold fast to the teachings handed down through the Apostles.As for your second question, every church has some traditions, but most do not pretend that these are the equal of divine revelation and do not make doctrine out of them.
...which is an additional concern with "Holy Tradition." Aside from the question of whether legends, folklore, custom, and opinion should be made the equal of Scripture, there is also the problem that comes with "Holy Tradition" which is claiming that such things are "teachings handed down through the Apostles" when there is no way of knowing if that's true or not. It is simply stated in order to justify making such information into doctrine.That isn't what we do either.
We don't pretend anything. We simply hold fast to the teachings handed down through the Apostles.
Peter says "Baptism...now saves you " his words not mine .or Scripture says " believe and be baptised ". It does not say 'say a sinners prayer' .Scripture defines how we are saved . Repentance is next and separate topic .
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