Catholics CAN'T Answer This Question!!!

[Meowzltov]

And just how do you know that, that is exactly what is not done in Protestant churches today.

I was replying on what Catholics do.

 

[Meowzltov]

I have heard many pastors ask that question. Can YOU tell me why YOU are against such a question?????Does YOUR priest ever ask any of his people to do that?

Yes, actually my priest does in his sermons present the gospel. He does in sermons remind people that Christ invites them to repent and come unto him. Most of the people in the pews are already baptized Christians, but many need to return to God's ways, or need to be reminded what it's all about.

But mostly, we have a blurb in our bulletin that if you want to inquire more about the Catholic faith, to contact us. That way each person is treated as an individual. It might be as simple as signing them up for RCIA, or as in depth as having a one on one appointment with our pastor.

 

[Major1]

Yes, actually my priest does in his sermons present the gospel. He does in sermons remind people that Christ invites them to repent and come unto him. Most of the people in the pews are already baptized Christians, but many need to return to God's ways, or need to be reminded what it's all about.

But mostly, we have a blurb in our bulletin that if you want to inquire more about the Catholic faith, to contact us. That way each person is treated as an individual. It might be as simple as signing them up for RCIA, or as in depth as having a one on one appointment with our pastor.

And for some reason you do not think that people in Protestant churches are treated as individuals and do not do the very same thing that you just posted.

Does that mean ALL do that, of course not. The overwhelming number of churches I have been in do have an opportunity at the end of the sermon to make a profession of faith.

That is not any different than what YOU just said...............
"He does in sermons remind people that Christ invites them to repent and come unto him."

 

[Major1]

I was replying on what Catholics do.

I know that sister. Thanks anyway.

 

[chevyontheriver]

NOPE. Where are the words........."PRAY THE ROSARY".

In the same chapter where you have 'altar calls' and 'personal relationship with Jesus' I bet. Right next to 'incarnation' and 'Trinity'.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Regardless of whatever else has been said on this thread, it is absolutely true that Catholics have had it drilled to them that "non-Catholics" are 1) completely ignorant of Catholicism, even those who once were members of the Catholic Church, and 2) obsessed by the desire to defame Catholicism (read: 'lie' about her).

A huge proportion of 'non-Catholics' are blissfully ignorant of the Catholic Church. It's simply true. As supporting evidence i give you from the whole of Christian Forums any discussion about the Catholic Church over ten posts long. And former members are often exceptionally ignorant, which is only evidence that their parents or pastors really messed up when trying to pass on the faith. As to being obsessed with defaming the Catholic Church, that is only a minority, vocal but a minority.

If there is to be any significant movement towards better relations between Catholicism and Protestantism, this is something that must be set aside, just as "the Church" has largely given up on preaching Limbo, Purgatory, the idea that only Catholics can be saved, and other Medievalisms that the people in the pews no longer buy into.

I have never in my 62 years been taught that only Catholics can be saved. I have several times been told by Protestants that I am going to hell.

 

[bbbbbbb]

A huge proportion of 'non-Catholics' are blissfully ignorant of the Catholic Church. It's simply true. As supporting evidence i give you from the whole of Christian Forums any discussion about the Catholic Church over ten posts long. And former members are often exceptionally ignorant, which is only evidence that their parents or pastors really messed up when trying to pass on the faith. As to being obsessed with defaming the Catholic Church, that is only a minority, vocal but a minority.

I have never in my 62 years been taught that only Catholics can be saved. I have several times been told by Protestants that I am going to hell.

The enormous advantage of being "blissfully ignorant" of the Catholic Church is that those who are seem to have a much better probability of being saved, according to the Catholic Church, than those who are not. If one is "invincibly ignorant" (as I have been told numerous times that I am) according to the Catholic Church, and is otherwise a "good" person, then one has a better-than-average chance of being saved.

One cannot commit a mortal sin intentionally and willfully if one is ignorant of it, can he? Thus, I am completely free to skip weekly attendance at mass whereas the Catholic citizens of France are, for the vast majority, headed straight for hell.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The enormous advantage of being "blissfully ignorant" of the Catholic Church is that those who are seem to have a much better probability of being saved, according to the Catholic Church, than those who are not. If one is "invincibly ignorant" (as I have been told numerous times that I am) according to the Catholic Church, and is otherwise a "good" person, then one has a better-than-average chance of being saved.

But are you really invincibly ignorant? There are other kinds of ignorance, including willful ignorance, and then there are things like plausible deniability. Not every kind of ignorance comes with a 'get out of hell free' card. I don't know you and it's not my job to judge you at all. But for myself I would not think that I was invincibly ignorant as any sort of guarantee, just in case I was fooling myself and I was willfully ignorant instead.

One cannot commit a mortal sin intentionally and willfully if one is ignorant of it, can he? Thus, I am completely free to skip weekly attendance at mass whereas the Catholic citizens of France are, for the vast majority, headed straight for hell.

For a sin to be mortal one must know it, freely choose it, and it must be serious matter. So a truly invincibly ignorant person, which maybe you are or maybe you aren't, will not be condemned. The way to salvation may be narrow. You should follow the discipline of your ecclesial community until you figure out otherwise. Then you must follow where God leads you, not claiming ignorance. Those nominal Catholics in France should/must do the same.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I have never in my 62 years been taught that only Catholics can be saved. I have several times been told by Protestants that I am going to hell.

Interesting. It was a pretty big thing in the church where I grew up. You know, that whole "outside the church there is no salvation" thing. Of course, I'm taken to understand your new pope seems to think even atheists can go to heaven, so who knows that they teach anymore.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Interesting. It was a pretty big thing in the church where I grew up. You know, that whole "outside the church there is no salvation" thing. Of course, I'm taken to understand your new pope seems to think even atheists can go to heaven, so who knows that they teach anymore.

Outside the Church there is no salvation. That's true. But almost all Protestants are considered by the Catholic Church to have valid baptism, and so are in some way not outside of the Church. Baptisms of Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses are not considered valid, nor those of flaky new age leaning groups, but otherwise it's almost certain your baptism, for example, is acceptable as is. So you are not 'outside'.

There was a guy who did teach that Protestants were going to hell. That was Fr. Feeney in Boston in the 1950's. But his archbishop had the Vatican look into it and he himself was excommunicated for teaching heresy. That heresy was that Protestants were necessarily going to hell. This was all in the 1950's, before Vatican II. Put simply, Catholics can't say only Catholics can be saved, for the doors have always been open to all of the baptized. This is a teaching that goes back clearly to Augustine and the Donatist controversy. Cyprian needs to be interpreted through Augustine.

Pope Francis talks before thinking. He rambles. Just like Trump's Twitter account should be shut down by his staff, Francis' staff should not be allowing him to give press releases when he is exhausted. When he says such silly things he is speaking for himself and not for the faith. In a conflict between what the pope says in a press conference and what the Catechism and the Bible say, ignore the pope's press conference. It's that simple. The teaching has not changed.

 

[Phil 1:21]

There was a guy who did teach that Protestants were going to hell.

Sadly, he wasn't alone.

Pope Francis talks before thinking. He rambles. Just like Trump's Twitter account should be shut down by his staff, Francis' staff should not be allowing him to give press releases when he is exhausted. When he says such silly things he is speaking for himself and not for the faith. In a conflict between what the pope says in a press conference and what the Catechism and the Bible say, ignore the pope's press conference. It's that simple. The teaching has not changed.

Times sure have changed. When I grew up, questioning the pope was not allowed...you know, what with him being the "Vicar of Christ" and all. It's nice to see folks understanding that the pope is just a man, with all the potential failures of men.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Times sure have changed. When I grew up, questioning the pope was not allowed...you know, what with him being the "Vicar of Christ" and all. It's nice to see folks understanding that the pope is just a man, with all the potential failures of men.

If you look at folks like Robert Belarmine, a major figure in the counterreformtion, you see that popes are not immune from questioning. Because infallibility is not absolute. Never was absolute. Not even at Vatican I.

Francis is in almost all respects as fallible as everyone else. His ideas about the weather are nothing special. His ideas about economics are nothing special. His ideas about theology are nothing special. His behavior can be sinful. He needs to go to confession. In only one way is there anything special about what he says, when he is deliberately speaking for the Church in a deliberate act of his authority. In that situation only do we view his words to be protected from error. Other than that, he has all the potential failures of men. That's what infallibility is. Not that he can't sin. Not that he can't have crazy personal ideas. Just that he won't be allowed to teach errors in faith and morals when he is deliberately teaching on faith and morals as the bishop of Rome. There is only one instance where he has even come close to that, in the document Amoris latitia, where there is a serious ambiguity that is yet to be resolved and he has only muddied things up instead of providing clarity. Everything else he has said or written is fallible and the ordinary teaching of one man. Press conferences in particular, are him speaking as an ordinary fallible man.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

Hi, Major. The issue with the rosary is not which sequence of prayers is to be used or how many times the Lord's Prayer is to be recited, but what supports the idea of 1) praying to the dead, even the Virgin Mary and 2) the special benefits that the church says are to be received from praying this particular configuration of prayers, as opposed to praying in any other way.

Prayer beads or the Rosary are used by most religions and pre date Christianity They are known to have been used gy the early Hindu's but might be older still.
Catholics and other Christians that use them have spaced the beads to suit their own prayer schema.
Even some protestants use them.

 

[Albion]

Prayer beads or the Rosary are used by most religions and pre date Christianity They are known to have been used gy the early Hindu's but might be older still.
Catholics and other Christians that use them have spaced the beads to suit their own prayer schema.
Even some protestants use them.

All this is true, but I've never figured out why the history is taken by some people as a reason for not using them. I can think of other reasons, but this one (the Hindu usage in particular) doesn't seem especially important.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

All this is true, but I've never figured out why the history is taken by some people as a reason for not using them. I can think of other reasons, but this one (the Hindu usage in particular) doesn't seem especially important.

If they help your concentration, and keep your prayers centered why should any one not use them.?
What does it matter other people use them too.?
Catholic priests wear dog collars, does that mean protestant priests should not.?

 

[Albion]

If they help your concentration, and keep your prayers centered why should any one not use them.?

Some reasons that have been given: the rosary is a prayer to the Virgin and it is wrong to consider anyone but Christ as our mediator and advocate...praying to the dead (humans who have gone on to the next life) is wrong...the special benefits that are promised to users at death or any other time are not actually available through praying the rosary. For example.

Of course, this primarily refers to the Roman Catholic use and belief. Other prayer bead sets ("Anglican Prayer Beads," for example) and the case of people who use the Catholic version simply to keep track their own selection of prayers are much different.

What does it matter other people use them too.?

It would matter only if such people used them in the same way as Catholics do. Generally speaking, they do not.

Catholic priests wear dog collars, does that mean protestant priests should not.?

No. That custom is not in any way comparable to what we're talking about.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

Some reasons that have been given: the rosary is a prayer to the Virgin and it is wrong to consider anyone but Christ as our mediator and advocate...praying to the dead (humans who have gone on to the next life) is wrong...the special benefits that are promised to users at death or any other time are not actually available through praying the rosary. For example.

Of course, this primarily refers to the Roman Catholic use and belief. Other prayer bead sets ("Anglican Prayer Beads," for example) and the case of people who use the Catholic version simply to keep track their own selection of prayers are much different.

It would matter only if such people used them in the same way as Catholics do. Generally speaking, they do not.


No. That custom is not in any way comparable to what we're talking about.

I do not use a rosery. Nor do they have prayers attached to them. So I see no harm in them.
In our local Anglican church we have an icon of Mary with a rosery hanging beside it. for any one to use.

How ever I see no harm at all in praying to Mary or any other Saint. or any other person who has gone before, who we might wish to intercede or guide us in some way.

I rarely pray to Jesus, but prefer to pray direct to God, or often to seek guidance from the Holy spirit. (He is very good at guiding our thoughts). I am less comfortable praying to jesus.

 

[Albion]

I do not use a rosery. Nor do they have prayers attached to them.

Don't have prayers attached to them? Then you are talking about using the rosary for a different purpose, something like using a bottle of beer to hold up a sagging sofa. No, doing that probably would not classify such a person as an alcoholic, so no argument there.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

Don't have prayers attached to them? LOL Then you are talking about using the rosary for a different purpose.

Were I to borrow the Rosary in our church, or from a catholic, it would simply be a set of beads
.what prayers I attaced to it would be my own. They are a simple aid nothing more.
I have no Idea what prayers a Muslim attaches to their beads. Or a Hindu or Buddhist to theirs..
I have no hang ups about Catholics using them.

 

[Albion]

Were I to borrow the Rosary in our church, or from a catholic, it would simply be a set of beads
.what prayers I attaced to it would be my own. .

In that case, you wouldn't be 'praying the rosary' or 'saying the rosary,' but you'd be using the bead set for another purpose, and there are indeed people who do that. Some people just carry them as a reminder of something spiritual that has meaning for them