Albion,
I will explain the reasoning, but I’ll add in parentheses a couple scriptural references behind anything that might need it. And I can add more later if you want. But Christians believe that all wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit and that many teachings come from the Son…but many other great teachings come from other Christians through whom the Spirit moves, which can only occur if that person is one with the Spirit (for at least as long as that person is motivated). The apostle Paul, who taught the early Christians, was one of these who Christians believe was inspired by the Holy Spirit. James, Jude, Peter and others’ letters who are at the end of the Bible are still more. Christians believe that no one can state “Jesus is Lord” except if the Spirit is in him or her (1 Corinthians 12: 3) or he or her in the Spirit. So, in short, lots of Christians in the world based on that, many with very different beliefs as to who and what God is, something of course which imperfect beings can never come close to comprehending in our physical being.
But let’s start with Jesus in the living: Mary interceded to Jesus at the wedding of Cana, to invoke His first miracle to feed the people…even against His original intentions. But He did it based on her request and then she stepped out of His way and told the people to do everything He asks. This is a prelude to the concept of Marian intercession, but such things didn’t begin in the New Testament, or to this earth alone, as I will explain. And I will speak more generally in terms of all the saints and what it means.
So, I led up to it before, the reasoning for intercession through the saints stems from the concept of all Christian’s being unified through Christ, as the Son is in the Father, so too does Jesus Will It that we be in Him, so that we too will be in the Father (John 17: 23), that Christianity is not separated by death, as God is not the God of death, but of the living (Luke 20: 38) and that we are all one family in both heaven and earth under the Father (Ephesians 3: 14, 15). Jesus prayed for this right before His passion, so it was obviously something important to Him. And since Christians believe that Jesus is the Word Made Flesh, the Word that created everything and for which the earth was made, then whatever He wills will inevitably come to be. He willed not only that we come into unity with Him, but with each other…and assures us that those who are in the Holy Spirit will perform even more miraculous things than He did…in His name, as this gives Glory to the Father (John 14: 12, 13). Christians believe that Christ is the intercessor to the Father, but that They are unified, as explained above…which comes from Jesus’ own words in the gospel. If Jesus were wrong, then all Christians are in the same boat anyway.
But Christians believe in what Jesus said, and from the very beginning of Christianity, the community was one, and they believed themselves one with those in heaven as well. Christians do not believe Mary, Paul, Peter or any of the others are “dead”; instead, as Jesus suffered death, he rose again. Christians believe in everlasting life themselves as well…and that heaven is not a dream, but perhaps even more real than this life—as this life is too filled with lies, which makes it harder to see the reality that is. Thus, if Christians are unified in both heaven and earth, then asking for Mary, Paul, Peter or any others to pray for us would be no more immoral than asking our spouse or pastor to pray for us in our time in need. Christians already believe that they are not in the flesh if they are in communion with the body of Christ, in the Spirit (Romans 8: 9), and even if the body dies due to sin, one’s spirit is still alive (Romans 8: 10).
So, while scripture urges not to converse with spirits in terms of sooth-saying or the like (as you never fully know who or what may answer), discerning the spirit and challenging the spirits to prove themselves of God in prayer has always been a part of Christianity (1 John 4), as discerning the Spirit has always been a way of deep and direct prayer with God Himself. Why would the apostle John, whose 3 letters and gospel are included in the New Testament today concern his church in his day with whether or not any spirit was from God if they only ever prayed to the Father Himself? He wouldn’t have done this…makes no sense. In fact, he provides Christianity with instructions in how to specifically do it (insist that the spirit acknowledge that Jesus is the Word made flesh). And should we yank yet another book (the letters of John, and perhaps his gospel as well) from the Bible because one or two people 1000’s years later after it had been practiced start to question the practice? In fact, it is only in recent centuries that such practices ever became considered questionable. But look for yourself…discern for yourself. Are there more scriptural passages in the Bible condemning such things, or condoning it? And are those passages “condemning it” really condemning the practice of asking individuals in heaven for their prayers?
Why not just pray to God Himself? All Christians do this. However, I do know one man who asks for the saints intercession more than direct prayer. This seems odd to me, but here’s his reasoning. The saints in heaven are not limited by mortal distractions, which interfere with prayer. Just as simply crying out “Jesus help me” is more than fine in a pinch, so too can be asking for the prayers of saints already in heaven (who fully must understand how to pray better now in heaven). I know when I’m busy with a stressful situation, I run out of the house asking my wife to pray for me. It’s kind of the same thing…except that my wife too has mortal thoughts…but she’s less in a hurry. Those in heaven are in even less of a hurry, and have a clearer understanding of prayer. These are just a few of the many, many reasons.
Jesus Himself clued us in that all of heaven hears us on earth (Luke 15: 7). He expressed that they experience joy from that which takes place on earth. If the door were locked between everything spoken on earth to that in the afterlife, then how did Peter see Jesus conversing with Moses, Abraham and Elijah, and offered them a chair and some food (so to speak) (Luke 9: 30). Then the two spoke with Peter, regarding Jesus? Was this situation immoral? Could something immoral occur in the face of Jesus without Him condemning it?
There has never been a good argument against praying to the saints in the past few centuries, which is why I think most Catholics simply ignore such comments when protestants make any false accusations. But I could go on all day, scripture passage after scripture passage, and so could others if they feel it would resound. But let me make it most simple: the early Christians, which became Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic practiced such things (and still today) and never even thought there could be a problem in it. These were the founders, many of them knew Jesus in His human form. Then 1500+ years later someone claims it evil. ??? Who claims it evil? All Christian faiths came from Orthodox and Catholic practices. How can a tree attack its own roots after its fully grown? It wouldn’t. Therefore, I have long held the belief than any such attacks are not Godly. And while I understand protestants believe in only the Bible as Scripture, I feel it useful to remind that what the ancient Jews and even Christian Jews considered Scripture would have filled volumes of bibles…not just one. It was under the middle age Christians centuries (Orthodox/Catholic) and centuries after Christ that anyone even thought to try to isolate a few favorite books into one (that which is the Bible today), one that would be easy to carry around and easy to teach in church. So there are many other books that teach about intercessional prayers between angels and saints.
But let me give an example of how this has all been confused, and such accusations are founded in error. The Book of Tobit was yanked from protestant scripture, as “the original texts in Hebrew could not be found”. Is that really the case? Well, miraculously in the 40’s the dead sea scrolls turned up, and in them the Hebrew texts of Tobit, just as the early Christians said. Tobit was a story all about the intercession of prayers through the angels. So, now that the Hebrew text was found, will it be added to the King James version? Not likely. The original argument is flawed…and the Holy Spirit which led to the discovery of these scrolls proves it so. The only reason this text is not in the Bible today is because someone didn’t agree with its teaching. But I assure you, the teachings in that book, and the others removed, were the teachings the apostles had. Even the letter of Jude references the Book of Enoch specifically. Is Jude’s letter the next to be banned?
I digress. Point is, there is much scripture that explains this intercessionary prayer…and it’s all okay, else Jesus would have condemned it. But He didn’t, as He explained Himself the intercessor to the Father. If intercession itself is something of a problem to one, then maybe Christianity isn’t what he or she shares belief in. Perhaps Jewish Orthodox might be a closer fit. But intercession has always been a part of Christianity…that’s the whole point of Christianity (He dies for our sins, no one comes to the Father except through me, and that we are in Him, and we do to others as He did to us, and so on). That’s kind of what this whole Christianity thing is about.
So what Christian would ever stand in the way of unified prayer between Christianity, even between heaven and earth and back? None would who would come to understand what it means. But the devil would, as the devil cannot distract from prayers between the saints and God. He can with us. So what an advantage he would have by convincing us that in doing so was evil in itself. Clever plan…it has worked for a while. But the Spirit of Truth will in the end quiet this lie, as He has the others brought against Jesus and the apostles and all of Christianity.
The biggest lie that stems from this… that Christianity is divided on such issues. It is not, cannot be and never will be. It will only ever grow closer together as the lies that attempt to divide the two are weeded out…as it is Jesus Himself who willed it, the Word who caused everything to come into being and for who the world was made (John 1, 2). Now, what Christians have to ask themselves is…are they going to work hard to fulfill Jesus’ will, or are they going to oppose it? Are they going to unify…or try to divide. Attempting to divide the Christian Church is pointless, and even the devil must know this…so please do stop attacking Christ through His Christians, as in the end…it hurts everyone, including Christ Himself.
And neither does impugning the motives of other Christians who happen to have honest disagreements with you on this issue that has divided the Church for centuries before any of us came on the scene.
