Catholics (2)

[donfish06]

Where is the foundation for Mary worship found in the scriptures?

 

[WisdomTree]

No good Catholics worship the Virgin Mary, only God.

 

[donfish06]

Okay, where is the foundation for praying to her, being that she is dead

 

[Tzaousios]

Okay, where is the foundation for praying to her, being that she is dead

Who is praying to Mary? It is a very sad, nihilistic attitude for a Christian to have to consider the martyrs and the saints to be nothing more than rotting corpses.

 

[donfish06]

Who is praying to Mary? It is a very sad, nihilistic attitude for a Christian to have to consider the martyrs and the saints to be nothing more than rotting corpses.

"Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death"

.... Catholics

 

[WisdomTree]

"Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death"

.... Catholics

That's the rosary which is more self-discipline in light of devotion to God than an actual prayer. Also you'll notice that the first half is straight from the Gospel of Luke while the second half is an addition in accordance with the Third Ecuemenical Council (Ephesus).

 

[Tzaousios]

"Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death"

.... Catholics

There is nothing about praying to Mary here unless one's presuppositions require that one sees it. It is a very sad, nihilistic attitude for a Christian to have to consider the martyrs and the saints to be nothing more than rotting corpses.

 

[Forever trying]

Where is the foundation for Mary worship found in the scriptures?

Seems like some little boy needs to get his facts straight and learn how to play nice. Praying for you, fella.

 

[donfish06]

That's the rosary which is more self-discipline in light of devotion to God than an actual prayer. Also you'll notice that the first half is straight from the Gospel of Luke while the second half is an addition in accordance with the Third Ecuemenical Council (Ephesus).

Does Luke refer to her as "full of grace?"

So there is no scriptural backing for praying to Mary?

 

[donfish06]

There is nothing about praying to Mary here unless one's presuppositions require that one sees it. It is a very sad, nihilistic attitude for a Christian to have to consider the martyrs and the saints to be nothing more than rotting corpses.

"Holy Mary... pray for us"

Are you not talking to her?

from catholic planet .com:

"A prayer for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus Christ."

1) It's a prayer
2) If not praying to Mary, then who??

Normally when you say someones name, followed by a statement or a question, you are, in fact, talking to them. The catholics themselves call this a prayer, and it is directed towards Mary. Are you just that blind?


Where is she ever referred to as Holy in the scripture?

 

[donfish06]

Seems like some little boy needs to get his facts straight and learn how to play nice. Praying for you, fella.

What facts need to be straightened? Praying is reserved to God. A "god" is an object of worship. If you pray to something you are making them a god. Therefore praying to Mary or any other dead person is worship which is pagan and anti-scriptual

 

[AvilaSurfer]

These types of threads are hilarious. Just sayin'.

 

[Albion]

That's the rosary which is more self-discipline in light of devotion to God than an actual prayer.

It might seem so to one who isn't aware of what the rosary is all about. In actuality it is a series of prayers to the Virgin, plain and simple, and has been that since the legend originated of St. Dominic being given a rosary for this purpose by Mary herself. And the rosary is believed by users and their church to have particular spiritual benefits, which would not be the case if it were merely an exercise in "self-discipline" (whatever that might mean). Whether or not it constitutes worship is, IMO, a separate debate.

Also you'll notice that the first half (of the Ave) is straight from the Gospel of Luke while the second half is an addition in accordance with the Third Ecuemenical Council (Ephesus).

FWIW however, the second half was only added in recent times and by an order from the Papacy.

 

[Tzaousios]

"Holy Mary... pray for us"

Are you not talking to her?

Yes, but I do not see anything about praying to her.

"A prayer for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus Christ."

1) It's a prayer
2) If not praying to Mary, then who??

Although I am sure you already know something about it, and are not willing to admit it for apologetic purposes, the concept of intercessory prayer is the key here.

Are you just that blind?

No, but I rather dislike anti-Catholic bigotry, and do not agree with what you are trying to do here. If you conflate it with "blindness," so be it.

Where is she ever referred to as Holy in the scripture?

The sudden switch in topic sounds like a red herring.

 

[donfish06]

Although I am sure you already know something about it, and are not willing to admit it for apologetic purposes, the concept of intercessory prayer is the key here.

I am actually unaware. I know that YOU (a living person) can intercede on my behalf, and I know that Jesus is our intercessor, but I know nothing about where we have dead people intercede for us?

The sudden switch in topic sounds like a red herring.

It isn't a sudden switch in topic, the topic is where is the precedence of Mary worship in the scriptures. The hail Mary prayer was brought up, and in it she is referred to as holy. Where does that line up with scripture?

--- I am sorry for my attitude I realize that is not Christ-like. My only objective is for you to think about what you believe. Does it coincide with scripture, or is it making doctrines of the commandments of men?

I assure you that my motives are not evil, though my actions don't always prove it. Please intercede for me.

 

[Forever trying]

I am actually unaware. I know that YOU (a living person) can intercede on my behalf, and I know that Jesus is our intercessor, but I know nothing about where we have dead people intercede for us?


--- I am sorry for my attitude I realize that is not Christ-like. My only objective is for you to think about what you believe. Does it coincide with scripture, or is it making doctrines of the commandments of men?

I assure you that my motives are not evil, though my actions don't always prove it. Please intercede for me.

Well that's it guys, stop believing in God, because once we're dead, we're dead rotten corpses, and there is nothing beyond here. Our spirit does not live on and is not a living thing at all, and we cannot serve God in the afterlife. You cannot be used to intercede on His behalf. In the afterlife, we are not more powerful than here on Earth at all. We just sit around and drink coffee. Forget the apparitions/intercessions of Moses, Abraham and the Angels, maybe even the Lord himself it seems, because once your dead, your dead.

Fella, better (or worse) people than you have tried and they all have failed. They're normally self-styled theologians, come from churches that place a gross over-emphasis on tithes and becoming rich, speaking gobly-[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as a sign of the Holy Spirit, and finding God after popping pills. Plus, how can you really know what God thinks is wrong in terms of worshipping his Kingdom? No one can understand God's heart completely. For you to think so is arrogance, and for all you know when your time is done, he'll let you in, but not before telling you, you were wrong. Just remember, that most Christian denominations (including in the Protestant side) spring from Catholicism and are also open to intercessions.

Now how about you take this back into the Petencostal forums we're I'm sure that you'll have a lot of friends getting onto your band wagon. This is a questions forum, not one to open up a debate on "I'm right, and all you other millions are wrong".

 

[Albion]

Well that's it guys, stop believing in God, because once we're dead, we're dead rotten corpses, and there is nothing beyond here.

There's a name for that, but I forget what it is. What do they call the device by which one debunks a stated position of someone else by grossly exaggerating what that other person had advocated...and then denouncing IT instead of that which had been advocated?

 

[Tzaousios]

There's a name for that, but I forget what it is. What do they call the device by which one debunks a stated position of someone else by grossly exaggerating what that other person had advocated...and then denouncing IT instead of that which had been advocated?

Wait a second, who is doing that exactly?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well that's it guys, stop believing in God, because once we're dead, we're dead rotten corpses, and there is nothing beyond here.

Using your lne of reasoning, the logical opposite is that once we are dead we become eternal deities with all the attributes of God including omnipresence and omiscience. Mary and the saints in Catholic theology must possess these divine attributes in order to and answer untold numbers of prayers simultaneously.

 

[Forever trying]

There's a name for that, but I forget what it is. What do they call the device by which one debunks a stated position of someone else by grossly exaggerating what that other person had advocated...and then denouncing IT instead of that which had been advocated?

Riiiight, and you've never shown exaggeration for your own anti-Catholic agenda mister "all Catholics hate Protestants and that's final". Really balanced views you have there Albion.