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Catholicism wrong?
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a_ntv
Ens Liturgicum
AnomalousSilence said:
Who can say to be sinless?
"Salvation" is a bad protestant word.
With baptism a new life is born in you. But unfortunatly you are not jet perfect.
In all your life you shall became more and more Christ-like.
It is only after death that you will see directly Christ, and you became "saved"
"Salvation" is a process, not an istant
AnomalousSilence said:
No, the most of the sins are light, but if you do some heavy sin you have to confess it. Better, you have to ask forgiveness to God in your pray (and that is anyway enogh) and later to confess it.
AnomalousSilence said:
Too easy....you have to became Christ-like, not to stop when you think to be "saved"
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Silver-winged Flyer
I take the road less traveled
Being saved is believing that Jesus, God's Son died on the cross and rose again and if we believe that then we will have eternal life. No we will never be perfect this side of heaven but we also can't lose our salvation.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave us His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
It doesn't say that we have to be baptised for that salvation is a process.
Becoming more Christ-like is something that we should be working on all the time with God's help, its not an automatic process. Not all Christians try very hard, I know.
Baptism is a symbol that we are saved, not the means by which we go to heaven.
We confess our sins to God, we don't need to confess to a priest.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave us His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
It doesn't say that we have to be baptised for that salvation is a process.
Becoming more Christ-like is something that we should be working on all the time with God's help, its not an automatic process. Not all Christians try very hard, I know.
Baptism is a symbol that we are saved, not the means by which we go to heaven.
We confess our sins to God, we don't need to confess to a priest.
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Silver-winged Flyer
I take the road less traveled
What do you mean? If Satan believed it he wouldn't be the devil, he'd be one of God's angels. He knows about it but he doesn't believe in God like we do if we are saved.PolskiKrol said:
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Half of that is correct- We confess our sins to God, but God didn't want us to find Him alone, so we have a preist in persona Christi. It is very American independantalist to say that our sins our only between yourself and God. Our sins harm the whole Church, even if we don't see it.
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Satan certainly believes that Jesus died for us, and tries to do everything he can to stop us from being saved. We have to do more than Satan if we are to live as God wants. Believing that it happend has no bearing on choosing to live your life properly.
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TLB said:
We are saved, we are being saved, and we hope, in the end, to be saved.
There's more to the sacred scriptures than this one verse. Context is everything.
[bible]Matthew 28:18-20[/bible]
Paul seems to think that salvation is a process:
[bible]Philippians 3:8-14[/bible]
We confess our sins to God through a priest.
Please remember too, that you're in OBOB, and while you are a welcome guest, you may not debate in here.
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Silver-winged Flyer
I take the road less traveled
I don't think God wants anyone to come between us and Him. Jesus died so we could have a personal relationship with Him. Remember that the curtain in the temple tore in two so instead of only the High Priest going into the Holy of Holies, everybody has DIRECT access to God.PolskiKrol said:
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TLB said:
You assume that a priest comes between God and us.
Where does scripture say that?
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Everybody DOES have direct access to God. I feel like we're playing whisper down the lane, except we're all talking out loud.
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a_ntv
Ens Liturgicum
TLB said:
We, men, are into the time. God is out of the time.
For us does exist a first, and a later, and many time we change our mind.
For us salvation is a process, many up and down and (hopefully) always upper.
For God it is an istant. He is out from the time. He dont change his mind.
Here on the earth, we are free to do all we want, including to loose our salvation with our sins.
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TLB said:
. . . in your opinion. Actually, the belief that one can't lose one's salvation is a relatively new belief, held by a minority of Christians. It is not consistent with Catholic teaching; it is not consistent with a more full-orbed biblical understanding of Christianity and it is not a belief held by the majority of Christians, even today.
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TLB said:
Both/and . . . not either/or. Catholics have both a "direct access" to God, as well as a sharing in the Communion of Saints, the family of God. What do you think the "communion of saints" means in the Apostles' Creed?
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- May 2, 2006
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All of this has gotten so confusing to me and the majority of it is only people talking that are biased. If I can get a whole crapload of Bible quotes that are used in context that strongly supports one side and mostly gets rid of the validation of the other side, I will become whichever side has the Biblical verses to prove it, as the Bible is God's word and it is something to abide by fully.
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AnomalousSilence said:
. . . if the Bible were the sole rule of faith and self-interpreting . . . but it is neither.
So, whose interpretation is correct? No book, not even the Bible, is self-interpreting.
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Lisa0315
Respect Catholics and the Mother Church!
- Jul 17, 2005
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Carrye said:
Excellent answer! Thank you. I really did not know what your answer would be, but if you had said that the quality of the priest depended on the quality of forgiveness, then...well, that just wouldn't line up with Scripture. Very good. I am learning.
Lisa
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