Catholicism wrong?

[Globalnomad]

You've been given good sources, AS, but let me perhaps also give you a quick sum-up.


- They use rosary beads in their worship, and in the Bible God frobids that. He used the golden calf as an example, and said that God expects us to worship him through out heart and souls alone.

Actually, rosary beads or other "aids" to prayer are not mentioned in the Bible. The "golden calf" is not a good example - that was idolatry because people prayed TO it. We use rosary beads to keep our minds on track as we pray to God.

- The priest they call father that you confess to he was also talking about, and how once Jesus came that whole structure was abolished with priests and clergy, so there's another thing that isn't right.

Jesus only talked against power-seeking and self-righteousness by the clergy. He did give His apostles "hierarchical" powers, to make rules and to forgive sins. Do you want the references? I don't have Bible handy, perhaps someone else can help if you want.

- Another big thing he said was that no where in the Bible does it say to pray to Blessed Virgin Mary, yet they do.

We don't pray "to" to the Virgin Mary, we ask Her to pray to God for us.

Does that help?

You should also understand that we do not believe, as strictly as you, that the Bible is "the only source". (We cannot believe anything that contradicts it, of course.)Since Jesus promised to His disciples that they were allowed to make rules for the Church and that the devil would not prevail against it, we believe that things that have always been the tradition of the Church, right from the time of the Apostles (and we have quite a lot of old writings, other than the Bible, to record these) are trustworthy, too. For example, Confession, and praying through the intercession of Mary and the saints.

 

[AureateDawn]

But is that the Lord's favorite form of worship? Or does He desire to come and meet His people - descending to meet us, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity? Is worship for us or for Him?

For him in a way that is more pleasing to us.... though I guess that isn't entirely what God would want... but it's hard for me to stay awake in "formal" and "boring" sermons and song. I don't feel the spirit unless I sing vibrantly and clap, etc. with a shouting preacher.

 

[AureateDawn]

You've been given good sources, AS, but let me perhaps also give you a quick sum-up.


- They use rosary beads in their worship, and in the Bible God frobids that. He used the golden calf as an example, and said that God expects us to worship him through out heart and souls alone.

Actually, rosary beads or other "aids" to prayer are not mentioned in the Bible. The "golden calf" is not a good example - that was idolatry because people prayed TO it. We use rosary beads to keep our minds on track as we pray to God.

- The priest they call father that you confess to he was also talking about, and how once Jesus came that whole structure was abolished with priests and clergy, so there's another thing that isn't right.

Jesus only talked against power-seeking and self-righteousness by the clergy. He did give His apostles "hierarchical" powers, to make rules and to forgive sins. Do you want the references? I don't have Bible handy, perhaps someone else can help if you want.

- Another big thing he said was that no where in the Bible does it say to pray to Blessed Virgin Mary, yet they do.

We don't pray "to" to the Virgin Mary, we ask Her to pray to God for us.

Does that help?

You should also understand that we do not believe, as strictly as you, that the Bible is "the only source". (We cannot believe anything that contradicts it, of course.)Since Jesus promised to His disciples that they were allowed to make rules for the Church and that the devil would not prevail against it, we believe that things that have always been the tradition of the Church, right from the time of the Apostles (and we have quite a lot of old writings, other than the Bible, to record these) are trustworthy, too. For example, Confession, and praying through the intercession of Mary and the saints.

It's a little disheartening to NOT pray to God directly, but that's just me. I mean, I want to know I am praying directly to God... and another disheartening thing is that I can never be as close to Him as the clergy, whereas a Protestant views this differently.

 

[Michie]

It's a little disheartening to NOT pray to God directly, but that's just me. I mean, I want to know I am praying directly to God... and another disheartening thing is that I can never be as close to Him as the clergy, whereas a Protestant views this differently.

You don't have to pray for saintly intercession. I pray to God directly all the time. Also, nobody has a closer than God standard in the Catholic Church. Priests, etc.

Read those links.

 

[Carrye]

For him in a way that is more pleasing to us.... though I guess that isn't entirely what God would want... but it's hard for me to stay awake in "formal" and "boring" sermons and song. I don't feel the spirit unless I sing vibrantly and clap, etc. with a shouting preacher.

But worship isn't for us - it's something due (owed) to God because he is our Creator and we are his creatures. Worship is something we give, not something we get.

 

[Carrye]

nobody has a closer than God standard in the Catholic Church. Priests, etc.

There are holy priests, holy lay people, holy religious brothers and sisters. None are better than another - just different.

 

[dragos_adrian]

indeed, to beleive in the apparitions of Mary, to pray to the saints, to pray to Mary is optional. Some people feel closer to God if they pray to Mary, others don't (including I). Another thing is that there are cathoic churches that offer a service before and/or after the mass similar to the worship service some protestant churches give, and in some churches people are singing songs and claping hands (but we don't have shoutong priests)
The Rosary is an optional prayer, you don't have to pray it to be catholic. The confession to a priest is what jesus told us to do, and we have evidence that the first christians confessed their sinns. Actually, if a christian sinnes in a serious matter, he had to confess repeatelty his/her sin in front of the WHOLE community, not to the priest alone. Later, the popes and the bishops deceided that the people who sinned would have to confess their sins to the priest alone. Of coyrse, if you sin and repent, you don't have to go to confession to be forgiven, but through your sin you damaged the community(church) as well, and this is where the prist comes in. I hope I helped you in a way God bless

 

[willard3]

For him in a way that is more pleasing to us.... though I guess that isn't entirely what God would want... but it's hard for me to stay awake in "formal" and "boring" sermons and song. I don't feel the spirit unless I sing vibrantly and clap, etc. with a shouting preacher.

Please don't take this as a flame or personal attack....

...but if you are bored in church and claim you 'get nothing' out of traditional services, then that is often because you are trying to get something out of church, not trying to give. God did not command us to keep holy the Sabbath for our own pleasure, but for His. Some contemporary songs could be appropriate for church, but if you start showing music videos and turning it into a concert, then you start having problems.

Also, on the shouting preacher thing: The homily in a Mass is meant to teach lessons based on the Scripture readings for the day. Do/did you have teachers in school who shout(ed) the lessons at you? Teachers like that wouldn't stay around very long.

 

[a_ntv]

This whole Protestant/Catholic thing is confusing to no end....

How is chucrch server conducted in a Catholic Church?

With a high sense of sacred and of holiness.

You can go and have a look. All are wellcome

 

[Deb7777]

Friend, if the Catholic Church is wrong, its been wrong for a very long time, 2000 years, if protestantism is right it been right for a very short time and has many different versions of rightness with the Holy Spirit looking a bit schizo. Jesus sent his Apostles to lead people to the truth in the gospels saying those who rejected them rejected him. Find those Apostles and you find Christ. We believe the Church is led by the Apostles and their successors in the ministry that Jesus gave them to teach, feed ,lead and protect his flock with the annointing of the Holy Spirit and with the presence of Christ to be with them always. We claim Christ presence in a very special way in the Eucharist and look upon ourselves as his bride that he will lead to all truth and unite in an inseparable bond. God bless, I'm sure you'll get lots of good answers.

 

[Franze]

If the catholicism is wrong, no church is right, simply that.

 

[Markh]

The Mass is the Holy Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross made present again in an unbloody manner.

In mass, heaven and earth seem to mingle together as a piece of bread becomes, in the hands of the priest, the Body, Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ- amidst thousands of angels in prostration before their God and our's.

The Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. Protestant sects were founded by men.

The bible came after the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ and He wanted all people to meet Him through interacting with His body, the Church.

Catholics truely interact with the Body Of Christ!

We hear the infallible words of Christ when the Church speaks doctrines.

We experience the closeness of the body of Christ through the Eucharist.

We have a personal conversation with Him and receive absolution of our sins from Him through confession.

I would like to invite you, this very day to consider becoming a Catholic- the Catholic Church is Christ's one Holy Catholic, Apostolic and Infallible Church. Christ wants you to be a Catholic, He desires your soul and He desires an intimate, physical relationship with you. He is offering you graces and calling out to you to enter His Holy Church on this very day.

 

[stray bullet]

- They use rosary beads in their worship, and in the Bible God frobids that. He used the golden calf as an example, and said that God expects us to worship him through out heart and souls alone.

There is nothing in the bible that instructs us not to use visuals in our worship.

[bible]Exodus 25:8-22[/bible]

[bible]Numbers 21:8[/bible]

The golden calf takes away from the glory of God, for being worshipped on its own.

The priest they call father that you confess to he was also talkinga bout, and how once Jesus came that whole structure was abolished with priests and clergy, so there's another thing that isn't right.

Then why did Jesus appoint 12 apostles? Why did they appoint Matthias to replace Judas? Why were they appointimg deacons and bishops? Why were there church elders and fathers?

- Another big thing he said was that no where in the Bible does it say to pray to Blessed Virgin Mary, yet they do.

That's because Mary was on Earth at the time. Mary is alive with Christ in Heaven. When a sinner repents, does not all of Heaven rejoice? Heaven is aware of what is in our hearts, through God. We can ask the saints to pray for us.

 

[Ann M]

For him in a way that is more pleasing to us.... though I guess that isn't entirely what God would want... but it's hard for me to stay awake in "formal" and "boring" sermons and song. I don't feel the spirit unless I sing vibrantly and clap, etc. with a shouting preacher.

When it comes down to tin tacks, Christianity's first preacher was Jesus. How often do you see in the Bible where Jesus "shouted" his message at the people?

 

[scraparcs]

Oh, ok. What I meant by singing is, like, 30-45 minutes of only singing, and getting up and clapping, and songs that aren't all "formal".

Ever heard of a LifeTeen Mass? Some of them tend to be a bit more song-oriented, with quite a bit of singing before Mass.

It's a little disheartening to NOT pray to God directly, but that's just me. I mean, I want to know I am praying directly to God... and another disheartening thing is that I can never be as close to Him as the clergy, whereas a Protestant views this differently.

You can and should pray directly to God. As for the clergy, it is more that they are set aside for different roles rather than a different level of access to God or the like.

Now one thing that is hard to find is priests getting loud when delivering a homily (sermon). But you can just find some gadget that will turn up the volume for you....

 

[The Princess Bride]

But is that the Lord's favorite form of worship? Or does He desire to come and meet His people - descending to meet us, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity? Is worship for us or for Him?

Does God even have a favorite form of worship?

David the Psalmist cried, "Praise the Lord, oh my soul, and ALL that is within me, Praise His Holy name!" (Psalm103:1)

Psalms 106:12 "Then they believed in His promises, and SANG His praise."

Psalms 98:4 "SHOUT for joy to the Lord, all the earth, BURST into jubilant song with music..."

There is nothing wrong at all in loud, jubilant worship, or quiet, adoring hymns; nothing at all. We just all CHOOSE how we express our love and adoration to God in our own ways.
We were created to worship the Creator. If we dont praise Him, the very rocks will cry out.

This isnt a challange, but more an exhortation to my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.

Get one or two worship albums that have the upbeat worship music on it. (Hosanna, Hillsong, Integrity..etc) Get by yourself, and just "go crazy" and enjoy worshiping your Father in a different way. YOu might actually be suprised and like it!

 

[Carrye]

Does God even have a favorite form of worship?

He does. It's worship given by the sacrifice of his Only Son, Jesus Christ, Our Lord. It's that very worship that is participated in by Catholics and Orthodox at every Mass or Divine Liturgy.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the praise & worship music that you mentioned. I like listening to it sometimes when I'm in the car driving. But worship CDs do not make the Lord present sacramentally. My songs are pleasing to him, but His Son is most pleasing. It is that worship that he desires - the worship that my soul makes when it is joined to the whole company of heaven, to the whole Church, through His Son and His sacrifice.

One thing is not the other, and never can be. Song is directed toward the fullness of worship - the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[azarius]

This whole Protestant/Catholic thing is confusing to no end....

How is chucrch server conducted in a Catholic Church?

It is all based on tradition where the priest there conduct the gathering of the eucharist in rememberance of Jesus the lord and saviour. He then gets selected people to get up and read verses from the bible then he talks about them. Still confused about priests being called father well read the chapters of Corinthians 1+2. Sorry I cant remember the exact verse ill get back 2 ya. Azarius

 

[The Princess Bride]

He does. It's worship given by the sacrifice of his Only Son, Jesus Christ, Our Lord. It's that very worship that is participated in by Catholics and Orthodox at every Mass or Divine Liturgy.

But that is a Catholic based belief.

What exactly is THAT worship anyways? How does it differ from other forms of worship?

One thing is not the other, and never can be. Song is directed toward the fullness of worship - the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Worship is worship. Whether in song or in spirit.

 

[Markh]

But that is a Catholic based belief.

That was the belief of the first Christians! Readn St Ignatius of Antioch or St Justin Martyr- they describe the early Christian worship of the 1st-2nd century and - guess what- it is the Catholic Mass! The Holy Sacrifice!

The greatest act of worship to God is the offering up of the Divine Son to the Father- surely no human worship can ever match that act Christ accomplished on the cross? And so the priest offers to God the Father the perfect sacrifice of Christ on the cross for the remission of our sins, the adoration of God, the asking of petitions and the thanksgiving for God's blessings.

The practices of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church are those from 33ad, this is the Church Christ founded- and it existed long before the New Testemant and long before any man-made "Christian sects" were founded.

We are not talking an indifference in worship and an "all are equally pleasing to God" attitude- NO THAT IS AN ERROR.
For If you reject that Church, the Catholic Church which Christ founded in full knowledge for some man made and man entertaining "church" with belifs contrary to those true beliefs of the Catholic Church - then you profit damnation upon yourself.

The matter is serious.
The Catholic Church is truth and is the continuation of Christ's mystical body in the world. Communion with the Church in this life brings eternal communion with Christ in the next. Reject the communion with Christ's body on earth (in full knowledge), the next life will echo that rejection for all eternity.

I say this not in anger or one-up-manship but in charity and it is true charity, for sharing the truth is always charitable to the other's soul.