Casting crowns

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Me Mormon nnononono and what does that make you? the keeper of tradition? who provides nothing but a "that is how it is" while admitting it can be interpreted more than one way
An extension from dominion of the earth to the heavenlies isn't a poopoo thing. The verse says " what is man that deserves such an honor" Without Christ we are nothing. (you forget that Joshua commanded the sun and moon to stand still)

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of heaven and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
Genesis 1:28
28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of heaven and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.

Psalm 8:3
3 When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars, which you have set in place
6 You have given him dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under his feet,

God gives dominion over the earth, when we lose that what else do you think we will reign over when reaching the heavenlies?

I'm not going to argue the use of the Greek I'll take your word that it can be interpreted either way. I've offered lots of scripture to cast a doubt on the traditional way and see nothing in scripture to support it. By support I mean other scripture holding it up.
The only thing that you can come up with is to say that crowns are not worn by angels in scripture. IOW, ruling angels do not exist....but there are scripture referring to rulers of the heavenlies whether good or bad to whom the church at this time are to witness to (in a sense our first job over the angels)

Ephesians 3:10
10 In order that now to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenlies the multifarious wisdom of God might be made known through the church,

edited to add insert of Joshua commanding sun to stand still, the reason for being accused of being a Mormon, I assume?

 

[sunlover1]

From the other thread that prompted this I assume that the bride of Christ will take her rightful place and that submission of the woman (bride) to the Bridegroom (Christ) will be the platform for the angels to step down (cast their crown for the body of Christ to take up) and allow the overcomers to reign.

1 Corinthians 11:9-11
9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.

Interesting thread
I posted a link on that thread, it speaks of the "because of the angels"
and I thought you might want to look at it to add to your understanding..
(or not, just wanted to let ya know!)
Be blessed!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Interesting thread
I posted a link on that thread, it speaks of the "because of the angels"
and I thought you might want to look at it to add to your understanding..
(or not, just wanted to let ya know!)
Be blessed!

....was there something you wanted to add to the discussion from it?

edit: besides the long winded red tape look of it at a glance I know your views about keeping things on the letter instead of the spirit as far as issues of women and submission so my understanding of that wouldn't be the same I don't believe. Be blessed too and keep that GT armour on well lol

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Interesting thread
I posted a link on that thread, it speaks of the "because of the angels"
and I thought you might want to look at it to add to your understanding..
(or not, just wanted to let ya know!)
Be blessed!

......snip.....Now God is a God of order, and so there is order in the universe. God has created rules that govern the natural world, and the spiritual world. Everyone abides by them. Now one of the most important rules, is the rules which govern authority relationships, and we'll see in a moment, the devil is required to submit to God's rules. He just can't run around doing what he wants. He actually has to obey what God has set down. Now all, everything that God has created, He's ordered in ranks of authority. They're not just lots of people all over the place; so for example, the angels of God - we won't go into the scriptures on it, but the angels of God are ordered in a hierarchy. The Bible describes at least two of them by name, the top ones are the archangels, and it tells us Michael is responsible for Israel; and Gabriel, who visited the earth at one point there, announcing the birth of Jesus - archangels. There are cherubim and seraphim around the throne of God, and then there are various levels of angels. In the demonic kingdom, the Bible tells us there's Satan, an archangel; then there are, in Ephesians 6, Verse 12, principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, spiritual wickedness in the heavenly, or the spirit, realm. In other words, ordinary demons, occult demons, and then lower-level demons, so that's structured. It's like an army, in battle array.
So you have an army on one side, in battle array; an army on the other side, in battle array; and both are required to submit to the terms that God has lain down. That's extraordinary, because God has chosen man out of all His creation - now man also has to submit to the rules God set out, so God has set rules of authority governing the government, home, workplace and the church. There are set things God has set down, and so one of the most important things you can do, is find where you are in the order of things; and then you are empowered to bless all those below you. Does that make sense? To be a greater authority, is to have greater responsibility. That means you're a greater servant - why Jesus said: if you want to be great in the kingdom of God, it's not about bossing people around. It's actually, those are all the people you serve, so you want to climb up the ladder? No way, you're going down, you've got a heap of people more to serve, and you've got to lay your life down for them.
That's what Jesus said, Matthew 20:24-28, He said: in the world they will boss over one another, but in the kingdom of God it's not like that. You become the servant of more, so if you want to be great, get to serve a lot more people. That's how you get to be great in the kingdom of God, but before you start doing that, make sure you're doing what you've been given now. Be responsible for what you've been given now, and fulfil that. So now the Bible makes it very clear that human beings shall judge angels, so we need to understand that God has positioned us only a little lower than Him. We are made in the image of God, and our destiny is that we will govern all of God's creation. How about that? We will rule over angels, but it's not quite like that at the moment. So when a person is outside of Christ, he has no authority in the spirit world at all. He is under the dominion of darkness. When a person gets saved, he comes out of the kingdom of darkness, by acknowledging allegiance to Jesus Christ. Now he enters a new realm, and out of his relationship with Christ, he can be positioned to have dominion over demons and over spiritual forces, to release blessing and to protect, so here's some of the guidelines that operate it.
Number one, Satan as a created being, must abide by God's guidelines. He can't just do what he wants. He's confined to work in darkness, outside the law of God. That's where he's confined to. He can only get into your life if he deceives you, and you don't believe the word of God. He's got to find a way in, and we'll see how he does that in a moment. Now God has created laws that govern the natural world and the spiritual world, and he upholds them. The greatest laws of course, are concerning authority. Now you have one or two positions you can take, in relationship to spiritual authority. You either position yourself under it, as you recognise it; or you resist it. If you position yourself under it, it tells us in Romans 13:1-2, then we are able of course to actually flow with God, and be blessed and protected by those God's placed over us. But if we resist it, then we receive into ourselves the consequences of that etc etc

So since we're both single I guess that move up the ladder is legit

 

[sunlover1]

So since we're both single I guess that move up the ladder is legit

We are too legit.... too legit to... lol.
nm, God is good and it's SO
good to know that He's got
our back no matter what.
THAT thought is like a warm
blanket wrapped around me..

I bet you know just what I mean too.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I also wanted to point out that the elders are mentioned along with the living creatures in Rev 5 and the living creatures of Rev 6 are responsible for the opening of the seals. It's not until the seventh seal that the redeemed multitute are standing before the throne. Perhaps this thread would be best moved to Eschatology for more consideration?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If we are in Christ as He is the head and we are the body, then who are the elders that cast their crowns to His feet?

Revelation 4:9-11
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.”

it would make sense the 12 tribe leaders of israel and the 12 apostles

or 12 selected prophets instead of the 12 tribe leaders .

but the bible doesn't say who the elders are .

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

No it doesn't. There is a more said about the living creatures who are with them that leads one to think they are in fact angels since the living creatures seem more tied in with angels of higher standing.

Isa 6
Isaiah's Vision of the Lord in His Glory
…2Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3And one called out to another and said, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory." 4And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke.…
Cross References
Revelation 4:8
Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,' who was, and is, and is to come."

The term Lord of hosts would imply the Lord of the heavenly realm being referred to here.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No it doesn't. There is a more said about the living creatures who are with them that leads one to think they are in fact angels since the living creatures seem more tied in with angels of higher standing.

Isa 6
Isaiah's Vision of the Lord in His Glory
…2Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3And one called out to another and said, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory." 4And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke.…
Cross References
Revelation 4:8
Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,' who was, and is, and is to come."

The term Lord of hosts would imply the Lord of the heavenly realm being referred to here.

Reminds me of Ezekiel in terms of the non-human beings . and Isaiah in regards to the "holy holy holy" perhaps some hints there

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Reminds me of Ezekiel in terms of the non-human beings . and Isaiah in regards to the "holy holy holy" perhaps some hints there

Yes, I've asked to have this moved to the end time forums to see what light they can shine on it because there is something here that seems to have been traditionally overlooked.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes, I've asked to have this moved to the end time forums to see what light they can shine on it because there is something here that seems to have been traditionally overlooked.

http://www.christianforums.com/showgroups.php

Ask a mod or admin directly through PM it might happen quicker .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by maid in His image

If we are in Christ as He is the head and we are the body, then who are the elders that cast their crowns to His feet?

​

They are the 12 elders that represent the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles (also elders) which represent the Christian church.

That is what I always thought.

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of the Man may sit upon a throne of His glory,
shall sit--ye also--upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

Luke 22:30
that ye may eat and may drink at My table, in My kingdom,
and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'

Reve 20:4
And I saw thrones and they are seated on them.
And judgement was given to them and the souls of the ones having been beheaded/executed because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the Word of the God
[Matt 19:28/Reve 20:4]



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[Citizen of the Kingdom]

That is what I always thought.

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of the Man may sit upon a throne of His glory,
shall sit--ye also--upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

Luke 22:30
that ye may eat and may drink at My table, in My kingdom,
and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'

Reve 20:4
And I saw thrones and they are seated on them. And judgement was given to them and the souls of the ones having been beheaded/executed" because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the Word of the God
[Matt 19:28/Reve 20:4]



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The thrones in Rev 20 are not set up until a later time than the crowned ones in Rev 4.

On a side note the Essene 10 commandments from the Essene book of Moses has the usual commandments followed but a set of instructions to greet the 12 angels 0f sun, water, air, earth, life, joy, power, love, wisdom, eternal life, work and peace once in the morning and once at night.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The gnostics talk about the 24 elders more extensively . the downside is zero apostolic lineage in the teachings .

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The gnostics talk about the 24 elders more extensively . the downside is zero apostolic lineage in the teachings .

The Essene book I was referring to was recovered with the Dead Sea Scrolls, but I offered it just as a side note...I'm pretty much sola scripture ...I need to see patterns in scripture before I believe something...I know nothing of the gnostics and would prefer not to...the mother load of gold is in the bible, why dig the minor streams

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The Essene book I was referring to was recovered with the Dead Sea Scrolls, but I offered it just as a side note...I'm pretty much sola scripture ...I need to see patterns in scripture before I believe something

i was just throwing it out there . i was aware of your leanings which is why i also offered the disclaimer .

but Jeremiah 33:3 is very encouraging regarding stuff like this .

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

i was just throwing it out there . i was aware of your leanings which is why i also offered the disclaimer .

but Jeremiah 33:3 is very encouraging regarding stuff like this .

Exciting being a Christian when God offers so much

 

[Hentenza]

Thread moved to Eschatology from GT by OP request.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thread moved to Eschatology from GT by OP request.

NOOOOOOO!





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[Citizen of the Kingdom]

NOOOOOOO!





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LOL....think I'll just step out of the way and see if anything comes of it...
I'm sure there's much more from the prophetic books that I'm not aware of.



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