Can you prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist?

[InterestedAtheist]

It's that time of year again! Merry Christmas, one and all.

In my experience of debating Christians - stretching back over a good few years - I have often encountered the argument (either stated directly indirectly) that I have to disprove God's existence in order to maintain my atheist stance. As in, "Can you prove that God doesn't exist? No? Then how can you say you're an atheist?"

In this festive season, I think it's worth revisiting the character of Father Christmas, and considering what he has to teach us.

So here's my question. Can you prove that Santa Claus does not exist?
And as a follow-up: if you can't disprove his existence, is it therefore logical of me to maintain my belief that he does exist?

(Disclaimer - for the purposes of this thread only, I shall be a believer in Santa Claus).

 

[Pavel Mosko]

It is easy to make a case for the unlikelihood of Santa Claus based on following the paper trail of his historical/social construction from various tales of saint Nicolaus, Pepsi adds, the Night Before Christmas etc.


And with the other part of the OP, people simply have to be educated about universal negatives that they cannot be proven because it requires some form of omniscience, omnipresence etc.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Thank you, Pavel.

For your first point: the existence of references to Santa Claus in popular culture does not disprove the existence of the real thing.

For your second point: I have not found educating people about universal negatives that cannot be proven to be a simple matter at all. I've attempted it often, and rarely with any success.

So to those people, I hope that noticing that their arguments can be used to defend the existence of Santa Claus will make them think a little about whether the arguments they use to defend the existence of God.

 

[rockytopva]

According to the article @ Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia...

“Very little at all is known about Saint Nicholas's historical life. Any writings Nicholas himself may have produced have been lost and he is not mentioned by any contemporary chroniclers. This is not surprising since Nicholas lived during a turbulent time in Roman history.”

Which would make proof of his existence very hard. He is bound to have been a charitable soul after becoming such a legend.

 

[keith99]

I can disprove the Santa Claus of popular lore. After all the claim is he leaves presents for children by going down the chimney. One year of watching proves he does not exist as portrayed.

I can do something similar for most God claims.

If the claims are allowed to be changed once I demonstrate a claim is false then no I cannot disprove either.

 

[NBB]

It's that time of year again! Merry Christmas, one and all.

In my experience of debating Christians - stretching back over a good few years - I have often encountered the argument (either stated directly indirectly) that I have to disprove God's existence in order to maintain my atheist stance. As in, "Can you prove that God doesn't exist? No? Then how can you say you're an atheist?"

In this festive season, I think it's worth revisiting the character of Father Christmas, and considering what he has to teach us.

So here's my question. Can you prove that Santa Claus does not exist?
And as a follow-up: if you can't disprove his existence, is it therefore logical of me to maintain my belief that he does exist?

(Disclaimer - for the purposes of this thread only, I shall be a believer in Santa Claus).

Santa claus supposedly is based on a person, but the character that brings presents doesn't exists, it seems to be the evidence because we don't see him throwing presents in houses, however you can meet Jesus and get blessings and communion from him. The same grown ups that tells you santa is just a story, have met Jesus too, also how can compare both things? its doing history an insult really.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I can disprove the Santa Claus of popular lore. After all the claim is he leaves presents for children by going down the chimney. One year of watching proves he does not exist as portrayed.

Santa claus supposedly is based on a person, but the character that brings presents doesn't exists, it seems to be the evidence because we don't see him throwing presents in houses, however you can meet Jesus and get blessings and communion from him. The same grown ups that tells you santa is just a story, have met Jesus too, also how can compare both things? its doing history an insult really.

These both sound rather similar to attempts I've made in the past to demonstrate the illogic of miracles.
And if I were to apply the same kind of arguments to Santaism that I heard presented by Christians in defence of miracles and Jesus, I'd say something like this:

"As a Santaist, of course I don't find these claims troubling. @keith99 , Santa is not a subject in a test tube. If you waited up to watch for him, of course he would not come to you. You need to have faith!

And @NBB , just because you don't see something happening, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. For example, I've never met this Jesus you claim exists, but I have received plenty of evidence of Santa's existence.
Also, these people you claim met Jesus - do any of them happen to have a photograph of the meeting?

 

[Hazelelponi]

It's that time of year again! Merry Christmas, one and all.

In my experience of debating Christians - stretching back over a good few years - I have often encountered the argument (either stated directly indirectly) that I have to disprove God's existence in order to maintain my atheist stance. As in, "Can you prove that God doesn't exist? No? Then how can you say you're an atheist?"

In this festive season, I think it's worth revisiting the character of Father Christmas, and considering what he has to teach us.

So here's my question. Can you prove that Santa Claus does not exist?
And as a follow-up: if you can't disprove his existence, is it therefore logical of me to maintain my belief that he does exist?

(Disclaimer - for the purposes of this thread only, I shall be a believer in Santa Claus).

I have a Book that has multiple accounts of people knowing Jesus personally, as well as witnessing both His death as well as His resurrection from certain death.

We also have historic (non-religious) accounts of some of these claims:

Tacitus on Christ - Wikipedia

You also have the historic account of Pharisaical origin written by Josephus where in reference to a man named James he is cited as being the brother of Jesus called the Christ - obviously a person famous enough at the time to become the identifier of another person. The reference is deemed authentic by modern scholarship

Then you have the historical accounts of followers of Christ being killed by Romans:

Pliny the Younger on Christians - Wikipedia

You have writings by the Romans that they used crucifixion around the time of Jesus's death, as well as physical evidence which proves this method was in use during this time period.

Died Like Jesus? Rare Remains Suggest Man Was Crucified 2,000 Years Ago

Also, while Jews consider Christianity a heretical sect, not even they deny Christ truly lived and was, likely, a Rabbi..

So, what there is, is historic evidence that Jesus was a real person, who lived and was crucified...

Beyond that, you have followers from that time forward that were willing to die upon the beliefs Christians still today espouse.

Now certainly, you can make the claim that Jesus was just a man that led a following of some kind but no more, and that's certainly your prerogative to think so, but you have multitudes of people yet today claiming supernatural experiences with God, and indeed similar claims stretching back these nearly 2,000 years.

So okay, now to Santa Clause.

I've heard of no adult having gifts supernaturally appearing in their house on Christmas eve, let alone people the world over making the same claim..if their children get gifts, it's always from known human occurring origin...if the cookies left out for Santa get eaten, I've only heard it's parents doing the eating.

Where is your documentation for your claims? I have mine.

 

[JohnDB]

Here's my proof...
Same proof as I have told my son.

Those who don't believe,
Don't receive!

And to this day my adult son believes in Santa.

 

[mama2one]

vaguely familiar


How do we know Santa Claus doesn't exist?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's that time of year again! Merry Christmas, one and all.

In my experience of debating Christians - stretching back over a good few years - I have often encountered the argument (either stated directly indirectly) that I have to disprove God's existence in order to maintain my atheist stance. As in, "Can you prove that God doesn't exist? No? Then how can you say you're an atheist?"

In this festive season, I think it's worth revisiting the character of Father Christmas, and considering what he has to teach us.

So here's my question. Can you prove that Santa Claus does not exist?
And as a follow-up: if you can't disprove his existence, is it therefore logical of me to maintain my belief that he does exist?

(Disclaimer - for the purposes of this thread only, I shall be a believer in Santa Claus).

For the purposes of this thread, is Santa Claus considered to be a different entity than Saint Nicholas of Myra?

 

[NBB]

These both sound rather similar to attempts I've made in the past to demonstrate the illogic of miracles.
And if I were to apply the same kind of arguments to Santaism that I heard presented by Christians in defence of miracles and Jesus, I'd say something like this:

"As a Santaist, of course I don't find these claims troubling. @keith99 , Santa is not a subject in a test tube. If you waited up to watch for him, of course he would not come to you. You need to have faith!

And @NBB , just because you don't see something happening, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. For example, I've never met this Jesus you claim exists, but I have received plenty of evidence of Santa's existence.
Also, these people you claim met Jesus - do any of them happen to have a photograph of the meeting?

You don't meet Jesus in person, at least yet, you receive his spirit.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Now certainly, you can make the claim that Jesus was just a man that led a following of some kind but no more, and that's certainly your prerogative to think so, but you have multitudes of people yet today claiming supernatural experiences with God, and indeed similar claims stretching back these nearly 2,000 years.

Thank you for those most interesting evidences for Christ. Since my evidences for Santa Claus are of a very similar calibre and kind, I suppose you're a Santaist too?

I've heard of no adult having gifts supernaturally appearing in their house on Christmas eve, let alone people the world over making the same claim..if their children get gifts, it's always from known human occurring origin...if the cookies left out for Santa get eaten, I've only heard it's parents doing the eating.

Well, you wouldn't hear of adults having gifts supernaturally appear, would you? The reason being, Santa delivers presents only to children.
You say that presents are only ever given to children by humans, and that cookies left out for Santa are only ever eaten by humans. Interesting. How do you propose to prove that this is so?

Here's my proof...
Same proof as I have told my son.

Those who don't believe,
Don't receive!

And to this day my adult son believes in Santa.

Well, exactly!

vaguely familiar


How do we know Santa Claus doesn't exist?

Well, it's the right time of year to revisit the question.

For the purposes of this thread, is Santa Claus considered to be a different entity than Saint Nicholas of Myra?

I couldn't say where Santa Claus came from. I suppose it's quite possible Saint Nicholas of Myra was somehow transformed into a magical (or miracle-working) distributor of presents.

You don't meet Jesus in person, at least yet, you receive his spirit.

Exactly how we Santaists see Father Christmas!

 

[Lost4words]

It's that time of year again! Merry Christmas, one and all.

In my experience of debating Christians - stretching back over a good few years - I have often encountered the argument (either stated directly indirectly) that I have to disprove God's existence in order to maintain my atheist stance. As in, "Can you prove that God doesn't exist? No? Then how can you say you're an atheist?"

In this festive season, I think it's worth revisiting the character of Father Christmas, and considering what he has to teach us.

So here's my question. Can you prove that Santa Claus does not exist?
And as a follow-up: if you can't disprove his existence, is it therefore logical of me to maintain my belief that he does exist?

(Disclaimer - for the purposes of this thread only, I shall be a believer in Santa Claus).

Yes, because i buy my own presents...

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Yes, because i buy my own presents...

I've never received an answer to a prayer. Does this prove that God does not exist?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Well, you wouldn't hear of adults having gifts supernaturally appear, would you? The reason being, Santa delivers presents only to children.

While Santa only delivers presents to children, indeed those children live with their adult parents, and I've never heard any poverty stricken parent, or wealthy ones for that matter, announce their children received gifts of supernatural origin.

The angel tree adopt-a-child program is the closest I've heard, but since this is of human origin (I myself have bought gifts for this or other similar programs), I have no proof of any Santa Clause.

You say that presents are only ever given to children by humans, and that cookies left out for Santa are only ever eaten by humans. Interesting. How do you propose to prove that this is so?

I don't. The onus is on you to prove your case, its not on me to disprove. I personally don't care if you believe in Santa Clause.

 

[Arc F1]

I've never received an answer to a prayer. Does this prove that God does not exist?

You turn on the news and believe what you are told with absolutely no proof. You read a paper or book and believe. Everyday you are presented with information that you have no way of confirming and you have faith that those people are telling you the truth.

Why do you hesitate to believe what the Bible says?

 

[InterestedAtheist]

While Santa only delivers presents to children, indeed those children live with their adult parents, and I've never heard any poverty stricken parent, or wealthy ones for that matter, announce their children received gifts of supernatural origin.

This doesn't seem to disprove Santa's existence in any way.

I don't. The onus is on you to prove your case, its not on me to disprove. I personally don't care if you believe in Santa Clause.

I trust you also point this out to Christians when you see them saying that it is their job to prove that God does not exist.

You turn on the news and believe what you are told with absolutely no proof. You read a paper or book and believe.

Let me go through that piece by piece.
You turn on the news and believe what you are told (who told you I do?) with absolutely no proof (who told you there is none?).
You read a paper or book and believe. (Sometimes I do, if there seems to be good evidence to support what it is saying. Sometimes I have doubts but am willing to consider what it is saying. Sometimes I consider it to be unreliable and unlikely, though possible.

Everyday you are presented with information that you have no way of confirming and you have faith that those people are telling you the truth.

So...you're a Santaist too? Is that what you're saying?

Why do you hesitate to believe what the Bible says?

Some of the stories in it seem a little far-fetched.
But since you obviously don't think so, can I take it you also accept the truth of Santa Claus?

 

[Arc F1]

This doesn't seem to disprove Santa's existence in any way.


I trust you also point this out to Christians when you see them saying that it is their job to prove that God does not exist.


Let me go through that piece by piece.
You turn on the news and believe what you are told (who told you I do?) with absolutely no proof (who told you there is none?).
You read a paper or book and believe. (Sometimes I do, if there seems to be good evidence to support what it is saying. Sometimes I have doubts but am willing to consider what it is saying. Sometimes I consider it to be unreliable and unlikely, though possible.


So...you're a Santaist too? Is that what you're saying?


Some of the stories in it seem a little far-fetched.
But since you obviously don't think so, can I take it you also accept the truth of Santa Claus?

I'm interested in why you "don't" believe in God. What are you looking for? It can't be proof because you already believe other things without proof. I'm just curious as to what's going on.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I trust you also point this out to Christians when you see them saying that it is their job to prove that God does not exist

I've never looked at anyone and asked them to prove that God doesn't exist.

That's not my job. My job is to share my faith with those who ask me. I do that....

What others do or don't do or believe or don't believe is not my concern, in the end. It's between them and God.