Can you fall from being saved?

[Godzchild]

The bible also says that the HOly Spirit will guide and convict them to turn back. The bible also says that Christ will go looking for his sheep and his sheep hear his voice and follow him.

I have turned my back on Christ at one point in my life and I came back. What made me come back?

I remained saved!

 

[aggie03]

The bible also says that the HOly Spirit will guide and convict them to turn back. The bible also says that Christ will go looking for his sheep and his sheep hear his voice and follow him.

Jesus did come to look for the lost sheep when he came to the earth. He then provided a way for the lost sheep to come back. Can a person choose to leave God? The answer must be yes or a person cannot choose to come to God.

I have turned my back on Christ at one point in my life and I came back. What made me come back?I remained saved!

This is also something that the Bible says can happen. There is a difference between someone who leaves for a little while and someone who utterly forsakes. This doesn't prove that one is incapable of leaving God.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Can a lion change itself into a donkey just because it doesn't believe it's a lion anymore?

Christians are new creations in Christ because of what Christ has done. Only Christ would be able to undo it, and for Him to do so would require that He didn't know something. Namely, that one of His children would want to run from Him after becoming saved. The very notion makes God out to be either less than all knowing, or in subjection to His own creation.

As for me, I just can't accept either of those things.

 

[joyinhim]

Jesus did come to look for the lost sheep when he came to the earth. He then provided a way for the lost sheep to come back. Can a person choose to leave God? The answer must be yes or a person cannot choose to come to God.



This is also something that the Bible says can happen. There is a difference between someone who leaves for a little while and someone who utterly forsakes. This doesn't prove that one is incapable of leaving God.

Praise the Lord for your eloquent explanation or analisis or insight.

 

[holo]

As long as I'm able to make choices, I suppose I can choose to say "no" to Jesus. But I don't know why I would ever want to do anything like that. But yeah, I guess I'm free to leave.

However, I can never "fall" from salvation. I can't stumble or sin so much that grace is no longer sufficient.

 

[TreeOfLife]

As long as I'm able to make choices, I suppose I can choose to say "no" to Jesus. But I don't know why I would ever want to do anything like that. But yeah, I guess I'm free to leave.

However, I can never "fall" from salvation. I can't stumble or sin so much that grace is no longer sufficient.

Do you understand how stunningly uncommon this revelation of Grace is that you've been given?

In your past posts I have read somebody who abjectly understands. Who has beguiled you to think that the purchase made for you is in your hands?

Stand up brother. Cast those chains off.

 

[holo]

Do you understand how stunningly uncommon this revelation of Grace is that you've been given?

In your past posts I have read somebody who abjectly understands. Who has beguiled you to think that the purchase made for you is in your hands?

Stand up brother. Cast those chains off.

Thank you kind sir!

Yes, I often feel alone in thoughts and experiences with grace, but I keep in mind that I used to be a legalist in one form or another my entire life, and it did take some time to get my mind and heart renewed, so to speak.
The best part is, I'm just getting started!

And I see that people from all around are slowly and surely getting to know this wonderful grace and growing out of those slimy chains. Old thought patterns have a tendency to crawl back into your head, but here, too, God's love casts out all fear.

He is our righteousness. His grace breaks me so much more than commandments could ever do. His grace makes me bow lower to Him than fear ever did.

I never use those pesky little smilies, but Lord, this one's for you -

 

[TreeOfLife]

Thank you kind sir!

Yes, I often feel alone in thoughts and experiences with grace, but I keep in mind that I used to be a legalist in one form or another my entire life, and it did take some time to get my mind and heart renewed, so to speak.
The best part is, I'm just getting started!

And I see that people from all around are slowly and surely getting to know this wonderful grace and growing out of those slimy chains. Old thought patterns have a tendency to crawl back into your head, but here, too, God's love casts out all fear.

He is our righteousness. His grace breaks me so much more than commandments could ever do. His grace makes me bow lower to Him than fear ever did.

I never use those pesky little smilies, but Lord, this one's for you -

Yeah. That astounding Love thing is really pretty cool ain't it?

Who'd have ever thought that Jesus would have saved me?

It really does blow my mind. And I think that is exactly how the Lord God of all Creation wanted it!

 

[joyinhim]

Thank you kind sir!

Yes, I often feel alone in thoughts and experiences with grace, but I keep in mind that I used to be a legalist in one form or another my entire life, and it did take some time to get my mind and heart renewed, so to speak.
The best part is, I'm just getting started!

And I see that people from all around are slowly and surely getting to know this wonderful grace and growing out of those slimy chains. Old thought patterns have a tendency to crawl back into your head, but here, too, God's love casts out all fear.

He is our righteousness. His grace breaks me so much more than commandments could ever do. His grace makes me bow lower to Him than fear ever did.

holo, people know all about grace. What they don't know is showing their appreciation with action. Faith without deed is dead: This is what you should start to preach. It's not being told. We don't see much Jesus around us. It's because most of us are lip servicing christians. It's so easy to say we love jusus. If pastors start talk about our responsibilities as Chrisyians they lose most of their members. We have lazy and spoilded generation.

 

[TreeOfLife]

holo, people know all about grace. What they don't know is showing their appreciation with action. Faith without deed is dead: This is what you should start to preach. It's not being told. We don't see much Jesus around us. It's because most of us are lip servicing christians. It's so easy to say we love jusus. If pastors start talk about our responsibilities as Chrisyians they lose most of their members. We have lazy and spoilded generation.

Is there any chance at all that you could be more condemming? If so, you know why don't you just really get with it? Go for it! Hit me!

Hit me!

Go for it if it makes you feel like you actually know Jesus.

Beat me with everything you have stored up inside of you. Truely. Hit me. I can take it and you will feel better.

Not a problem I am glad to do it. Hit me.

I am not kidding. Hit me with all the anger you have. I will take it and pray you forgive me for the pain I have caused you. I am so sorry.

 

[joyinhim]

Is there any chance at all that you could be more condemming? If so, you know why don't you just really get with it? Go for it! Hit me!

Hit me!

Go for it if it makes you feel like you actually know Jesus.

Beat me with everything you have stored up inside of you. Truely. Hit me. I can take it and you will feel better.

Not a problem I am glad to do it. Hit me.

I am not kidding. Hit me with all the anger you have. I will take it and pray you forgive me for the pain I have caused you. I am so sorry.

Well, I think this country needs more people speak up for the truth. But I can hardly find any..
I think I am leaving this CF very soon. I am tired of this country's hypocricy.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Well, I think this country needs more people speak up for the truth. But I can hardly find any..
I think I am leaving this CF very soon. I am tired of this country's hypocricy.

Well. That has not one thing to do with anything I said. You do know that you seem have no love at all in anything you post right?

I am assuming here that you really do mean to be as hurtful as you possibly can?

Or have I missed something?

I could be wrong.

 

[joyinhim]

Well. That has not one thing to do with anything I said. You do know that you have no love at all in anything you post right?

You do realise you do not know Love right?

I am assuming here that you really do mean to be as hurtful as you possibly can, and that you do this because of the dark nature of your own soul?

Or have I missed something?

I could be wrong.

If you can not tell I have been serving Him with all my might by reading my posts, then you don't know Him or love Him.

Good day tree of life May God be with you

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Well. That has not one thing to do with anything I said. You do know that you have no love at all in anything you post right?

You do realise you do not know Love right?

I am assuming here that you really do mean to be as hurtful as you possibly can, and that you do this because of the dark nature of your own soul?

Or have I missed something?

I could be wrong.

I personally think our modern-day Noah is actually one of two things. Either she has been hurt by her divorce and life in general or she is actually trolling looking to tear apart the Body of Christ. Noone has been left unscathed and I have yet to even see one of the fruits of the Spirit in any of her posts.

I'd like to point out, before I disagreed about our military, she and I had had some nice correspondance. Maybe if somebody who has not disagreed with her yet on an issue took it upon them to email her and offer kindness, she'd take them up on it. I tried after we disagreed but that didn't go over well. In the meantime, although we're all here on an anonymous bulletin board, praying is always our best option.

 

[Godzchild]

Jesus did come to look for the lost sheep when he came to the earth. He then provided a way for the lost sheep to come back. Can a person choose to leave God? The answer must be yes or a person cannot choose to come to God.

Sure they can choose to leave but Jesus will go and find them and bring them back! The HOly Ghost will convict...do you know what conviction feels like? It feels like you have no choice but to comply! That's what it feels like. You have this strong strong urge to stop what you're doing and turn back, it is impossible to ignore!!! That's what it feels like! "Nope sorry, I can't go on...I just can't...I have to turn back...this feels terrible, I'm alone, naked and hungry...and there's food and clothing at my Daddy's house...I have to go back...I can't stand this any longer". Sound familiar (the prodigal son) It's a no brainer!!! It's feel like...you know how if someone attacks you...you natural instinct is to run? You don't have a choice!!! You're body senses danger and the 'fight or flight' mechanism kicks in. That's as close as I can get to explaining conviction.

This is also something that the Bible says can happen. There is a difference between someone who leaves for a little while and someone who utterly forsakes. This doesn't prove that one is incapable of leaving God.

A true child of God cannot ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit for too long. They have to come back! You underestimate God's power!

Christians are new creations in Christ because of what Christ has done. Only Christ would be able to undo it, and for Him to do so would require that He didn't know something. Namely, that one of His children would want to run from Him after becoming saved. The very notion makes God out to be either less than all knowing, or in subjection to His own creation.

Exactly!! And it's this NEW nature that we are dealing here. Not the old forsaking "I don't give a hoot about God" one. Can't you see. We are a new creation...we are a whole new person. We are no longer subject to the old man!

holo, people know all about grace. What they don't know is showing their appreciation with action. Faith without deed is dead: This is what you should start to preach. It's not being told. We don't see much Jesus around us. It's because most of us are lip servicing christians. It's so easy to say we love jusus. If pastors start talk about our responsibilities as Chrisyians they lose most of their members. We have lazy and spoilded generation.

And it's this type of talk that binds people up in chains and makes them feel like they are not free as they think. It's this type of talk that kills people...and YES IT KILLS!!! I should know...how sad! Taking scripture out of context to stroke one's self-righteousness..all the while not understanding the scripture! Shame on you!!!!!

 

[Surrender2Win]

Let's take this situation for an example...

Let's say this man discovers Christ through a life of hardship. He's a very intelligent man who is often a skeptic. Well he finds Christ and dedicates his life to him for 10 years. He was saved. Until he comes across to someone to feed him lies about how there is no evidence for Christ. His skeptic nature kicks in and he walks away from Christ because of this evidence.

He was saved from the heart. It says once you are saved you are pre-destined and you cannot be taken away from him.

So if this gentlemen is a full blown athiest now, is he still secured in heaven?

"And let's say in another situation someone was saved and 10 years later they live a life of sin."

What will happen?

This may have already been pointed out...and if so I apoligize, I have not read through this entire thread. My perspective as of now is Romans 10:9-13

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]

It is what they believe in their heart and confess with their mouth. If this person no longer believes in his heart that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead...then I would opt to say that they aren't saved any longer. I'm still learning though, so I could be way off here...but as of now, this is where I am with it.

 

[aggie03]

Sure they can choose to leave but Jesus will go and find them and bring them back! The HOly Ghost will convict...

Then what is the point of Hebrews 6?

do you know what conviction feels like? It feels like you have no choice but to comply! That's what it feels like. You have this strong strong urge to stop what you're doing and turn back, it is impossible to ignore!!! That's what it feels like! "Nope sorry, I can't go on...I just can't...I have to turn back...this feels terrible, I'm alone, naked and hungry...and there's food and clothing at my Daddy's house...I have to go back...I can't stand this any longer". Sound familiar (the prodigal son) It's a no brainer!!! It's feel like...you know how if someone attacks you...you natural instinct is to run? You don't have a choice!!! You're body senses danger and the 'fight or flight' mechanism kicks in. That's as close as I can get to explaining conviction.

You do have a choice. You always have a choice. If there is no choice then your obedience is by compulsion and you no longer have free will. Again, Acts 2 shows that there were those who were pricked in their hearts that did not choose to follow God.

A true child of God cannot ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit for too long.

It's not that they cannot ignore God, it's that they choose not to. They aren't saved because that they can't turn away, but they are saved because they came back.

They have to come back!

Absolutely not. Paul talks about shipwrecked faith. Does a ship that been wrecked ever go back to port. No.

You underestimate God's power!

No, you understimate God's desire for a contrite heart, not for a compulsory response.

 

[aggie03]

And it's this type of talk that binds people up in chains and makes them feel like they are not free as they think. It's this type of talk that kills people...and YES IT KILLS!!! I should know...how sad! Taking scripture out of context to stroke one's self-righteousness..all the while not understanding the scripture! Shame on you!!!!!

This was not in response to anythin that I said, but I must answer:

How is saying that people should do what God wants killing them? There is nothing self-righteous about saying that people should be obedient to God. Jesus says this many, many times. The wise man who built his house upon the rock - who was he lilkened to? Those that heard and DID the word. The foolish man was likened to those who heard the word and DIDN'T do it. Whose house was destroyed? (Matthew 7:24-29)

I believe that what this person said about doing what God asks is a correct understanding of the Scriptures and not taken out of context AT all. They weren't being self-righteous either - they included themselves in the "us" that make up the "lip service" Christians.

 

[Godzchild]

Then what is the point of Hebrews 6?

Just Hebrews 6? What about the rest of the bible?

You do have a choice. You always have a choice. If there is no choice then your obedience is by compulsion and you no longer have free will.

Do you know what conviction feels like? The choice is a no brainer! Get it? It's like having someone chasing after you with a gun...are you going to stand there and be shot or run? Well your whole body is saying RUN!!!! But it's still a choice right? Free will and all that? But your body is saying to run...so you run! Why? Because if you don't run you will get shot! See? See what I'm saying?

That's what it feels like to walk away from God and getting in conviction to come back. Sure it's a choice but the choice is a no brainer. You either stay where you are and die or you RUN because you're whole being is telling you to Run. You're whole being is set for you to run back to God. It's automatic...to stop this 'instinct' you would have to be mighty strong - and even stronger than God himself!

Again, Acts 2 shows that there were those who were pricked in their hearts that did not choose to follow God.

Then they were not saved then! They then do not have the power of God's Holy Spirit in their lives. We are talking about saved people...not people who do not heed the call for salvation.

It's not that they cannot ignore God, it's that they choose not to. They aren't saved because that they can't turn away, but they are saved because they came back.

They choose not to because they desire to come back to where it was nice and warm and where they were fed. Where does that desire come from?

Absolutely not. Paul talks about shipwrecked faith. Does a ship that been wrecked ever go back to port. No.

Yes it can! God can restore! He restore souls. What you are suggesting is in stark contrast to what i've been through. I've had a shipwrecked faith...in fact I turned away from God...I even yelled and screamed abuse at him with my fist in the air!! But guess what? I was restored back to my (or his ) former glory! God has that power! Or don't you believe it? HE has the power to fix wrecked ships!

How is saying that people should do what God wants killing them?

Because it binds people! It brings condemnation and guilt because they are not living the expectations of what man intreprets God's are. And when this happens...it has the possibility to destroy! Story of my life

There is nothing self-righteous about saying that people should be obedient to God.

Yes it is. It suggests that one can actually be obedient to God. When that's not the case. The obedience that one must have FAITH in is Christ's perfect obedience. If we rely on our own obedience then we fail. Someone who preaches that one must obey...is obviously someone who is caught up in legalism and self-righteousness. My mum is like this. So busy preaching about obedience...and not enough about faith and love! Wrong on so many levels!

Jesus says this many, many times. The wise man who built his house upon the rock - who was he lilkened to? Those that heard and DID the word. The foolish man was likened to those who heard the word and DIDN'T do it. Whose house was destroyed? (Matthew 7:24-29)

Don't forget he actually died and rose again after he spoke that parable That means we build our house on CHRIST who is the rock. And HIS DOING becomes OUR DOING.

I believe that what this person said about doing what God asks is a correct understanding of the Scriptures and not taken out of context AT all. They weren't being self-righteous either - they included themselves in the "us" that make up the "lip service" Christians.

Yes it was taken out of context. You are aware that in some places in the NT it talks about justification UNTO GOD - which is faith and other places it talks about justification UNTO MEN - which is works? Right? Hasn't it ever occured to you that the bible seems to contradict itself? On one hand it talks about salvation by faith...then in the next it talks about salvation by works. But it's not contradictory at all...if you understand to whom it was written and why.

Faith without deeds is dead - according to men. If men don't see deeds then you are not justified because they can't see your faith. But God can see your faith BEFORE/WITHOUT your deeds...therefore you are justified to God but not to men if you don't have deeds. Get it?

 

[aggie03]

Just Hebrews 6? What about the rest of the bible?

Hebrews 6 doesn't contradict anything in the rest of the Scriptures, and it clearly says one can turn away from Christ.