Can you fall from being saved?

[Godzchild]

Huh? I walked away from Christ, yes but JEsus came to find me because I am his sheep. what's your point?

Oooooooh now I get ya...when I said that he saved me from my former life AGAIN. yeh that could be seen as being 'unsaved' and then being 'resaved' I guess but that's not what I meant. I believe I was saved the whole time (being as how God knows the future)...but in-my-mind I thought I wasn't saved and lost my salvation because of false teaching. So when he brought me back to HIS fold then I realised I never lost my salvation and that God was in control of the whole thing. Everything! In fact I even think it was important that I walk away from Christ to discover this and that God used is as a perfect opportunity to re-teach me and get rid of all the false doctrine I was brought up on.

 

[Jim Woodell]

Huh? I walked away from Christ, yes but JEsus came to find me because I am his sheep. what's your point?

Oooooooh now I get ya...when I said that he saved me from my former life AGAIN. yeh that could be seen as being 'unsaved' and then being 'resaved' I guess but that's not what I meant. I believe I was saved the whole time (being as how God knows the future)...but in-my-mind I thought I wasn't saved and lost my salvation because of false teaching. So when he brought me back to HIS fold then I realised I never lost my salvation and that God was in control of the whole thing. Everything! In fact I even think it was important that I walk away from Christ to discover this and that God used is as a perfect opportunity to re-teach me and get rid of all the false doctrine I was brought up on.

"What shall we say then, shall we contine in sin that grace may abound? God forbid..." (Romans 6:1-2). It sounds like you are saying that, from your experience and application, you are saying what Paul said, "God forbid!".

Do you think a person can willfully, rebelliously, disobey God and remain in his favor??

 

[holo]

Do you think a person can willfully, rebelliously, disobey God and remain in his favor??

I do. He died for us while we were still sinners.

I've spit on the cross and meant it. I've cursed Jesus. I've given up and attepted suicide twice. But still, I was in God's favour. He has never judged me. On the contrary, He has aquitted me.

 

[BrokenMystery]

well even if some ppl say he is not God says in the bible he will bring back all the lost sheep. so yeah

 

[joyinhim]

.

 

[joyinhim]

I do. He died for us while we were still sinners.

I've spit on the cross and meant it. I've cursed Jesus. I've given up and attepted suicide twice. But still, I was in God's favour. He has never judged me. On the contrary, He has aquitted me.

Did you ask for forgiveness of your sins? Did you repent? Are you changing your way of living?

 

[naos]

I do. He died for us while we were still sinners.

I've spit on the cross and meant it. I've cursed Jesus. I've given up and attepted suicide twice. But still, I was in God's favour. He has never judged me. On the contrary, He has aquitted me.

God's not stupid. He knew what I was going to do before He chose me, and yet He saved me anyway!

That's an amazing Grace. That's an amazing God.

 

[holo]

Did you ask for forgiveness of your sins?

Yes.

Did you repent?

I've seen different definitions of that word, so I'd rather not answer yes or no unless I know a bit more about how you read it.

But I've repented from dead works. Lauryn Hill said something that stuck with me: "repentance means letting go of all the ****." I'm still pondering that sentence.

Are you changing your way of living?

No, but God is, by the day, even by the minute. I haven't changed myself at all. If anthing, it must have been from trying and struggling, to relaxing and resting.

 

[joyinhim]

Yes.

I've seen different definitions of that word, so I'd rather not answer yes or no unless I know a bit more about how you read it.

But I've repented from dead works. Lauryn Hill said something that stuck with me: "repentance means letting go of all the ****." I'm still pondering that sentence.

No, but God is, by the day, even by the minute. I haven't changed myself at all. If anthing, it must have been from trying and struggling, to relaxing and resting.

So you are saying that even you are just sitting there He does all the work for you?

 

[holo]

So you are saying that even you are just sitting there He does all the work for you?

I'm not sitting, I'm walking. But when I do a good work, it's God who has prepared it for me, and He accomplishes it through me. I don't struggle to do God's will and purpose, He is my shepherd. He leads me to all kinds of people, for example, people I get to bless and vice versa.

Before, though, I was mostly just sitting around, waiting to become holy enough for God to use me, or trying to figure it out so I could understand it all adequately. I figure I would be of no use to God unless I got everything right.

But also, He died for me while I was still just sitting there, so it's not my decision to walk that has made me righteous.

I don't like to complicate things anymore. I figure that if I want to do something good, it's because God has planted that will in me. And if I do this good thing, it's in His power. I can't heal or save anyone. Only He can.
When I screw up, it's my old flesh nature, as it's called in christian talk, that's acting up. But my flesh is fighting a losing battle. I'm not so concerned about it, I just keep feeding my spirit and it outgrows the flesh and its vices more and more.

 

[joyinhim]

I'm not sitting, I'm walking. But when I do a good work, it's God who has prepared it for me, and He accomplishes it through me. I don't struggle to do God's will and purpose, He is my shepherd. He leads me to all kinds of people, for example, people I get to bless and vice versa.

Before, though, I was mostly just sitting around, waiting to become holy enough for God to use me, or trying to figure it out so I could understand it all adequately. I figure I would be of no use to God unless I got everything right.

But also, He died for me while I was still just sitting there, so it's not my decision to walk that has made me righteous.

I don't like to complicate things anymore. I figure that if I want to do something good, it's because God has planted that will in me. And if I do this good thing, it's in His power. I can't heal or save anyone. Only He can.
When I screw up, it's my old flesh nature, as it's called in christian talk, that's acting up. But my flesh is fighting a losing battle. I'm not so concerned about it, I just keep feeding my spirit and it outgrows the flesh and its vices more and more.

Holo, Nobody ever said any good deeds are their own accomplishment! How many times do I have to repeat that?

holo, When did you accept Him as your Lord and Savior?

 

[Godzchild]

"What shall we say then, shall we contine in sin that grace may abound? God forbid..." (Romans 6:1-2). It sounds like you are saying that, from your experience and application, you are saying what Paul said, "God forbid!".

Do you think a person can willfully, rebelliously, disobey God and remain in his favor??

Paul did say God forbid. In my opinion he was saying that it is almost inconceivable that a spiritfilled person would continue to sin on purpose.

A true child of God cannot willfully, rebelliously, disobey God. The very desire to obey comes from God. It's the sinful nature that is rebellious. Paul himself said that his flesh sinned BUT HE DIDN'T WANT TO SIN. He said that it was no longer him that sinned but his flesh that sinned.

Also you have to consider that God knows the future. So if you sin and walk away for a time and then come back...God has forseen you coming back. And because of this predestination, we do, in fact, remain in his favour because we are his Child. His grace is sufficient for those in Christ.

I too have sat there and yelled at God and shook my fist at him. But you need to understand when someone is doing such things...they are like a wild animal that is lashing out in pain. People are trying to help them and they continue to lash out in fear because they don't know what's good from them. That was me. I lashed out at God because I was afraid and hurt and HE UNDERSTOOD completely because he knew my heart. What I still in his favour? You bet ya!!!!! He would never have come looking for me, his child, if I was not in his favour.

Did you ask for forgiveness of your sins?

No actually I didn't have to...He forgave me for my sins and continues to forgive me of my sins anyway.

Did you repent?

I believe 'repentence' means to 'turn around' or to 'change mind. The spirit of God led me to repentence and gave me the desire to turn around...he did the rest.

Are you changing your way of living?

I did not or do not have the power to change the way I was living. But by God's power HE was able to do the changing for me...and he continues to do so. None of it is of my power.

So you are saying that even you are just sitting there He does all the work for you?

As Holo said. I'm walking in the spirit. It's God that does the work..yep and me who puts my faith in him to accomplish what I cannot do.

Holo, Nobody ever said any good deeds are their own accomplishment! How many times do I have to repeat that?

It certainly gives the impression, by your posts, that you do indead believe that the works that are performed are your own and that you are justified by these works. I know you say that you don't believe that. But judging by your posts...it certainly gives that impression. I guess it's the same with us folks, we give the impression that it's ok to sin...but we didn't actually say that either

 

[joyinhim]

Paul did say God forbid. In my opinion he was saying that it is almost inconceivable that a spiritfilled person would continue to sin on purpose.

A true child of God cannot willfully, rebelliously, disobey God. The very desire to obey comes from God. It's the sinful nature that is rebellious. Paul himself said that his flesh sinned BUT HE DIDN'T WANT TO SIN. He said that it was no longer him that sinned but his flesh that sinned.

Also you have to consider that God knows the future. So if you sin and walk away for a time and then come back...God has forseen you coming back. And because of this predestination, we do, in fact, remain in his favour because we are his Child. His grace is sufficient for those in Christ.

I too have sat there and yelled at God and shook my fist at him. But you need to understand when someone is doing such things...they are like a wild animal that is lashing out in pain. People are trying to help them and they continue to lash out in fear because they don't know what's good from them. That was me. I lashed out at God because I was afraid and hurt and HE UNDERSTOOD completely because he knew my heart. What I still in his favour? You bet ya!!!!! why are you interupting?



No actually I didn't have to...He forgave me for my sins and continues to forgive me of my sins anyway.



I believe 'repentence' means to 'turn around' or to 'change mind. The spirit of God led me to repentence and gave me the desire to turn around...he did the rest.



I did not or do not have the power to change the way I was living. But by God's power HE was able to do the changing for me...and he continues to do so. None of it is of my power.



As Holo said. I'm walking in the spirit. It's God that does the work..yep and me who puts my faith in him to accomplish what I cannot do.



It certainly gives the impression, by your posts, that you do indead believe that the works that are performed are your own and that you are justified by these works. I know you say that you don't believe that. But judging by your posts...it certainly gives that impression. I guess it's the same with us folks, we give the impression that it's ok to sin...but we didn't actually say that either

I did not ask you questions. Why are you interrupting?

 

[Godzchild]

Gee I'm sorry I thought this was a public forum? I didn't realise you were having a private teté on a public forum and didn't wish to be interrupted. Carry on...as you were then. Howbeit for me or anyone else to post in this thread and interrupt your little conversation there.

 

[joyinhim]

Gee I'm sorry I thought this was a public forum? I didn't realise you were having a private teté on a public forum and didn't wish to be interrupted. Carry on...as you were then. Howbeit for me or anyone else to post in this thread and interrupt your little conversation there.

Thank you.

 

[Jim Woodell]

I do. He died for us while we were still sinners.

I've spit on the cross and meant it. I've cursed Jesus. I've given up and attepted suicide twice. But still, I was in God's favour. He has never judged me. On the contrary, He has aquitted me.

You should study Eph. 2 more carefully. It is true that God made us alive, even when we were dead in our transgressions. It is also true that we were disobedient, depraved and doomed when God found us and "made us alive with Christ" (Eph. 2:5), but he did not save us to continue in sin and rebellion. There is a life that we are called to that is inconsistent with disobedience, depravity, and rebellion (Eph. 4:17-32) You cannot read that section of scripture, believe it and hold on to the view you are espousing.

"So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futililty of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sinsuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more." (Eph. 4:17-19)

You, however, did not come to know Christ that way...You were taught with regard to your former way of life, to PUT OFF your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made NEW IN THE ATTITUDE OF YOUR MINDS; and to PUT ON THE NEW SELF created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." (Eph. 4:20-24).

 

[joyinhim]

You should study Eph. 2 more carefully. It is true that God made us alive, even when we were dead in our transgressions. It is also true that we were disobedient, depraved and doomed when God found us and "made us alive with Christ" (Eph. 2:5), but he did not save us to continue in sin and rebellion. There is a life that we are called to that is inconsistent with disobedience, depravity, and rebellion (Eph. 4:17-32) You cannot read that section of scripture, believe it and hold on to the view you are espousing.

"So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futililty of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sunsuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more." (Eph. 4:17-19)

You, however, did not come to know Christ that way...You were taught with regard to your former way of life, to PUT OFF your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made NEW IN THE ATTITUDE OF YOUR MINDS; and to PUT ON THE NEW SELF created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." (Eph. 4:20-24).

Thank you Pastor Jim for clarification.

 

[Godzchild]

Oops Jim, you interrupted the conversation! tsk tsk to you

 

[holo]

Holo, Nobody ever said any good deeds are their own accomplishment! How many times do I have to repeat that?

As Godzchild said, that's the feeling I often get from your posts. It may be paranioa on my part, but I feel like I'm boasting about Jesus and writing about how much good he's done for me and through me, and instead of celebrating that, I'm met with questions... "oh, but don't you think you must this and that?", you know.

Yes, I do get the feeling that you think that while the good works are from and by Jesus, that there's still is some requirement for me to fill. That's where we disagree, obviously.

Maybe we're talking past each other, and feel free to disagree with my views. But when I say these things, I'm trying to point to Jesus, not my own personal theology or interpretations. He who is not against you is for you.

holo, When did you accept Him as your Lord and Savior?

I've always believed in Jesus, but I've messed up my life too many times to post about. I can't give you one definite date, except today. Also yesterday and the day before that, and tomorrow.

About Godzchild "interrupting," I and her agree on a lot of stuff, so on my part, I have no problem with her answering for me. In fact I would like her to, esp. since I gotta go soon and will probably be offline until friday.

 

[holo]

You should study Eph. 2 more carefully. It is true that God made us alive, even when we were dead in our transgressions. It is also true that we were disobedient, depraved and doomed when God found us and "made us alive with Christ" (Eph. 2:5), but he did not save us to continue in sin and rebellion. There is a life that we are called to that is inconsistent with disobedience, depravity, and rebellion (Eph. 4:17-32) You cannot read that section of scripture, believe it and hold on to the view you are espousing.

I don't think you understand my view. I'm saying that without him I am truly nothing. I am saying that nothing of whatever good I may do, comes from myself. Even my desire to do good comes from Jesus. He is worthy of all honour. Yes, we're saved to live for Him. And that's what I'm doing to the degree that I let Him live through me.

"So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futililty of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sinsuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more." (Eph. 4:17-19)

You, however, did not come to know Christ that way...You were taught with regard to your former way of life, to PUT OFF your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made NEW IN THE ATTITUDE OF YOUR MINDS; and to PUT ON THE NEW SELF created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." (Eph. 4:20-24).

Yes, exactly. Be made new, put on the new self.

I sometimes try to point out that I wasn't even really aware of my "new self." I just tried killing my old self with my own self. Like suicid, a kingdom divided against itself.

Now I'm being made new, continually. God renews my mind every day. I let Him. That's as far as it goes when it comes to works for me.