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Can you fall from being saved?
- Thread starter WhyAjani
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Bottom Buzzer said:Yeah, I know Holo! He's calm...
"And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves iwth the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature." (Rom. 13:11-14)
"Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain." (1 Cor. 15:58)
In other words, "Clean your sink."
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Since this is a serious thread with a serious theme, I'll give you my testimony, and not only the filty sink.
First; I really really believe it's allmost impossible to fall from being saved
When I was saved at 17, I was a punk-rocker. I't was not hard at all to be born again and transformed into the nature of Jesus. It was a reliefe since I had severe drug problems, and a lot of other problems too. I was healed.
When me and a friend had been saved for three or four weeks, God gave us a cofféhouse in the center of the city, and during the next year almost 200 teenagers were saved, many of them punks. It was a revival that gave a lot of good fruit.
All this was easy, but it was almost impossible for me to be transformed into the likeness of the holy necktie people. They couldn't understand my blue hair and my dress code, so they accused me for being sinfully preoccupied with my appearance. But they could never give me a good explanation about the function of the stupid necktie.
I normally buy nothing if I don't undertand it myself, so I first refused to believe that blue hair is more sinful than a necktie. That made me a rebellion, a sinner and a Holy Spirit mocker. Then all the pastors in the city forbid their youngsters to speek with me and my friend, and We were not welcome in their churces anymore. But they kept the fruit. They also gave us a lot of bible verses that "proved" their allegations. Stupid young me believed the servants of God, that I had wasted my last change. The next 11 years I was on drugs again, concidering myself lost for eternity. I was also in prison. But God bless them all anyway, because they probably didn't know better.
During this 11 years I was often preaching Christ when I was stoned, drunk or after having sex. Or whatever the reason was for beeing sentimental. I loved and missed Jesus almost the same way I loved and missed my family. I brought a lot of people to Christ or to Church during this years, and that's how I also was found at last.
I met an American eurail girl at Jim Morrisons (The Doors) grave i Paris, and after smoking marijuana and having sex in the sleeping car between Paris and Berlin, I told her about Jesus. She wanted to get saved, so I brought her to a Church. When we sat there the preacherman got a word of knowledge and said something like this; "there is a man here in the meeting who have believed for more than ten years that you are lost. Jesus loves you and you have never been lost for a second". I was a terrible person, but I was never lost during these years.
That was the homecoming of the prodigal son, and the american girl who had heard my sad story was also saved.
And why was God using terrible, criminal and immoral me, to win poeople for eternity? It had absolutely nothing to do with me and my state, but God want everybody to get saved. Thats me and all the others. And he need all of us to drag people out of the abyss, even if we are poorly qualified. He make the donkey talk.
Jepp...
First; I really really believe it's allmost impossible to fall from being saved
When I was saved at 17, I was a punk-rocker. I't was not hard at all to be born again and transformed into the nature of Jesus. It was a reliefe since I had severe drug problems, and a lot of other problems too. I was healed.
When me and a friend had been saved for three or four weeks, God gave us a cofféhouse in the center of the city, and during the next year almost 200 teenagers were saved, many of them punks. It was a revival that gave a lot of good fruit.
All this was easy, but it was almost impossible for me to be transformed into the likeness of the holy necktie people. They couldn't understand my blue hair and my dress code, so they accused me for being sinfully preoccupied with my appearance. But they could never give me a good explanation about the function of the stupid necktie.
I normally buy nothing if I don't undertand it myself, so I first refused to believe that blue hair is more sinful than a necktie. That made me a rebellion, a sinner and a Holy Spirit mocker. Then all the pastors in the city forbid their youngsters to speek with me and my friend, and We were not welcome in their churces anymore. But they kept the fruit. They also gave us a lot of bible verses that "proved" their allegations. Stupid young me believed the servants of God, that I had wasted my last change. The next 11 years I was on drugs again, concidering myself lost for eternity. I was also in prison. But God bless them all anyway, because they probably didn't know better.
During this 11 years I was often preaching Christ when I was stoned, drunk or after having sex. Or whatever the reason was for beeing sentimental. I loved and missed Jesus almost the same way I loved and missed my family. I brought a lot of people to Christ or to Church during this years, and that's how I also was found at last.
I met an American eurail girl at Jim Morrisons (The Doors) grave i Paris, and after smoking marijuana and having sex in the sleeping car between Paris and Berlin, I told her about Jesus. She wanted to get saved, so I brought her to a Church. When we sat there the preacherman got a word of knowledge and said something like this; "there is a man here in the meeting who have believed for more than ten years that you are lost. Jesus loves you and you have never been lost for a second". I was a terrible person, but I was never lost during these years.
That was the homecoming of the prodigal son, and the american girl who had heard my sad story was also saved.
And why was God using terrible, criminal and immoral me, to win poeople for eternity? It had absolutely nothing to do with me and my state, but God want everybody to get saved. Thats me and all the others. And he need all of us to drag people out of the abyss, even if we are poorly qualified. He make the donkey talk.
Jepp...
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E-vangelist
Active Member
That dishes thing is gross. Where did you get that picture? But back to what Naos said about having good works to and not seeing Why Jesus did what he did. Yes as Christians we are told to do Good Works but if we are not saved and we have not accepted Jesus death then are works mean nothing to God. Isaiah the prophet wrote that our good works are like filthy rags to God. We are not saved by our works but by Jesus work on the cross. It is not about us doing good works its about us being filthy sinners needing Jesus reedeming power in our life.
In the name of my Reedemer
E-vangelist
In the name of my Reedemer
E-vangelist
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joyinhim said:Thank you, evangelist, but every one already knows that. I don't know why so many Christians repeat the same kind of commnents.
Well, I know almost everything I need to know, so please shut up everybody!!!
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N
naos
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E-vangelist said:
I agree about the dishes picture, but I think you may have misuderstood my post. Contrary to my better nature I allowed joyinhim into my walk with the Lord. If you have understood that to mean that I do stuff because I am supposed to you are greatly mistaken.
I do "stuff" because I cannot resist. God has given me certain giftings of His own accord that He wants used where He wants them used. That has not one thing to do with me and it is none of my business.
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No! Is that a bad thing? LOL
This is so very very true. I grew up 'under the law'. I didn't even know what 'grace' meant. We'd sing about it but I never knew what it actually was. I lived in fear and dread and insecurity. The picture I had in my mind of God was this big old 'cop' in the sky sitting there ready with his batton to hit me over the head with. I felt I could not measure up to this 'God' that I was taught about and felt that I was never going to make it to heaven anyway - I was doomed! So you know what I did? I walked away and sinned! I did everything that I knew I shouldn't do...why? Because I thought I was going to hell anyway. I thought I could never measure up. I thought I could never 'not sin'...so I gave up!
Now....
I know that my salvation is secure! Now I know that I am God's child and what that adoption meant. Now I know that it was predestined that I was going to be signed, sealed and delivered. And now,,,,instead of purposely sinning like I have no hope. I have a reason to not sin!! I'm saved!! I'm delivered! I now know what Grace means for my life so now I have a licence to do my best. And if I stuff up...I KNOW that I'll be ok because God's grace covers my sin. How free I am now! How free it feels to know that...no...I will never measure up and THAT'S WHY I NEED JESUS!!. Jesus does the measuring...HE is the one who had redeemed me. therefore it's HIS BLOOD that delivers me. And to me that spells F R E E D O M!!!!
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holo said:
The commandment (word of God) is what shows sin to be sin. I agree that it is a general principle and I believe that it works that way for everyone.
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How is what I said not inline with scripture? I'm reading the scriptures you quoted and I don't see it - sorry. Here's the thing...I would not have died while I was out, since I was to be God's child since before the foundations of the world, God would not allow me to die 'outside' of Christ. No he went and sought me out and found me. Then when he found me he did a work in me to make me realise that the God that was taught to me all my life was NOT the almighty God. I fell in love with him all over again. JUST LIKE HE KNEW I WOULD. If you are his child then he will not allow Satan to get a hold of you and for you to die. You belong to God...he has the power to keep you from falling or don't you believe it?
You forget, God knows what choice you are going to make before you make it...that's what predestination means. If you are God's child then you are God's child because God knows what your choice is going to be for or eternity.
No I use the OSAS doctrine as a licence to TRY not to sin...I will always sin! And I use it as a licence to feel secure in my salvation. I use it as a licence to put all my faith and hope IN HIM because I cannot do it. And when I do...I know grace covers me so I don't have to freak out and worry about my salvation. It's all taken care of. Read Romans 7. There is nothing good that comes out of me that was not put there by God Himself. Even my desire to do good comes from God. There is no good thing in me!!!
See that? BECAUSE you are not under law but under grace. While I was still under the law I had on reason to not sin. But now I am not I have a reason to try not to sin. But I'm still going to sin! Everyone does!!!! But I am justified by faith. And if you read on you will see in Romans 7 and 8 what all that actually means. You cannot read Romans 6 without then going on and reading Romans 7 and 8...otherwise you end up feeling like I once did and that I was never going to measure up to God because I cannot not sin.
This 'resisting sin' business was even difficult for Paul as was written in Chapter 7. Even he said that his flesh did what he spirit didn't want to do. He said that it wasn't him that sinned but his flesh that sinned. Then in Romans 8 he goes on to say we are not under condemnation.
He's not saying that WE will die, he's saying that we are under obligation to try our best to not sin. Again, one needs to read onto chapters 7 & 8 to get for full meaning of what paul is really saying.
I'd say, that you haven't had to rely on God's grace before. Because it seems you don't really know what salvation actually means if you can become 'unborn' again and 'unadopted' from anything that YOU do. If that was the case then you wouldn't need Jesus...because if you feel you can lose your salvation from what you do then you must also feel you can gain salvation from what you do and that's not true!
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holo
former Christian
I'm with Godzchild, except (as any good sibling, I'll argue) for the "obligation to try not to sin" part. I find that the more I try to fight sin or whatever fleshly thing I don't like, the more of a slave I become to it, or something else in the process. It is, for example, perfectly to become addicted to self-discipline. Suddenly you're so busy doing the right thing all the time that God has to smack you to get you to listen and calm down.
It's been a process for me to learn to live according to the Spirit, and I'm still only a novice. It rocks though.
By NOT trying, I've been delivered from many things, among them my lack of love, my fear and anxiety, not to mention a whole lot of addictions, like drugs, porn and legalism. The less I try, the more God gets to do, it seems. Especially when it comes to the drugs, I didn't even make the decision to quit. I actually just gave up fighting it anymore. Suddenly I was sober, stumbling every now and then, but never again getting back that horrible urge to not be sober. It comes from the inside, and it's not of me.
He truly works in us both to will and to do His will. I have nothing to boast about, and I don't even want anything to boast about anymore. I must point to Him.
Jesus does indeed save.
It's been a process for me to learn to live according to the Spirit, and I'm still only a novice. It rocks though.
By NOT trying, I've been delivered from many things, among them my lack of love, my fear and anxiety, not to mention a whole lot of addictions, like drugs, porn and legalism. The less I try, the more God gets to do, it seems. Especially when it comes to the drugs, I didn't even make the decision to quit. I actually just gave up fighting it anymore. Suddenly I was sober, stumbling every now and then, but never again getting back that horrible urge to not be sober. It comes from the inside, and it's not of me.
He truly works in us both to will and to do His will. I have nothing to boast about, and I don't even want anything to boast about anymore. I must point to Him.
Jesus does indeed save.
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Godzchild said:Yes good point!!! Sometimes we need to get our hands off ourselves and allow God to do the work eh?
Reminds me of a poem I once saw...
QUOTE=Godzchild]I grew up in a cult-like church that didn't believe that you were saved until you 'spoke in tongues' (you had a sign). So I spoke in tongues...but my salvation was never secure as I felt I had to be 'good' to go to heaven. I walked away from that church and started sinning and carrying on because I thought I was going to go to hell anyway.
Years later I was introduced to 'grace' and what it all meant. I believe that God saved me from my former life AGAIN and brought be back into the fold. I now no longer hold the 'tongues' salvation message. Rather I do not believe that seeking after signs is looked kindly on by Jesus Christ at all.[/QUOTE]
I was under the impression from your previous post on this thread that you had never left the fold because OSAS.
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