Can you fall from being saved?

[joyinhim]

Here's one thing I hate:

When people qoute Jesus "go and sin no more" and turn it into some kind of "hah! told you so, it's right here in black and white - STOP SINNING."
It's amazing that we don't seem to see the order of things. Jesus forgave, thus giving her the power to overcome sin. But we prefer to skip the whole mercy part and go straight to jail, so to speak.

Also, if she did sin again (hands up everyone who suspect she might, in some way or another, have sinned again before she died), I'm 100% sure Jesus would have said the exact same thing.

In forgiveness, in grace, lies the very power we need to overcome sin. A common mistake is to assume the flesh is overcome by the flesh. But a kingdom at war with itself will perish. Spirit is to flesh like rocks are to scissors, when it comes to living right. Flesh vs. flesh = even score. Nobody wins.

So if we want anyone to overcome whatever sin we feel like pointing out, we must forgive. Be graceful. Forgive 777 times if we have to. Hope the best, believe the best, look for the best. See other people as Jesus sees us.

When I read your posts you sound like you're fighting against Christians who are trying to be good witnesses for Him. When we fight against christians who are showing good witnesses we are fighting against God. We have to stop this kind of nonsense. We are suppose to praise the Lord for their good witnesses! Do you understand that?

 

[holo]

When I read your posts you sound like you're fighting against Christians who are trying to be good witnesses for Him.

I'm not. I'm truly sorry if it appears that way.

Let it henceforth be known that I do not fight against Christians who are trying to be good witnesses for Jesus.

(But I do fight against the notion that our works and efforts make any difference in our relationship with him.)

We are suppose to praise the Lord for their good witnesses! Do you understand that?

Yes. And I do.

 

[joyinhim]

I'm not. I'm truly sorry if it appears that way.

Let it henceforth be known that I do not fight against Christians who are trying to be good witnesses for Jesus.

(But I do fight against the notion that our works and efforts make any difference in our relationship with him.)

Yes. And I do.

Good day holo

 

[holo]

Good day holo

?

 

[naos]

Here's one thing I hate:

When people qoute Jesus "go and sin no more" and turn it into some kind of "hah! told you so, it's right here in black and white - STOP SINNING."
It's amazing that we don't seem to see the order of things. Jesus forgave, thus giving her the power to overcome sin. But we prefer to skip the whole mercy part and go straight to jail, so to speak.

Also, if she did sin again (hands up everyone who suspect she might, in some way or another, have sinned again before she died), I'm 100% sure Jesus would have said the exact same thing.

In forgiveness, in grace, lies the very power we need to overcome sin. A common mistake is to assume the flesh is overcome by the flesh. But a kingdom at war with itself will perish. Spirit is to flesh like rocks are to scissors, when it comes to living right. Flesh vs. flesh = even score. Nobody wins.

So if we want anyone to overcome whatever sin we feel like pointing out, we must forgive. Be graceful. Forgive 777 times if we have to. Hope the best, believe the best, look for the best. See other people as Jesus sees us.

This is a brother who understands the "good news". All who read this would be very wise indeed to try to grasp what is being said here. This is it folks. This is the sum and total of it.

Think on it long and hard before you reject the free gift.

 

[joyinhim]

This is a brother who understands the "good news". All who read this would be very wise indeed to try to grasp what is being said here. This is it folks. This is the sum and total of it.

Think on it long and hard before you reject the free gift.

Hey holo. You have a lot of admirers. You can start you own church. And you are only 26 years old.

 

[Godzchild]

Holo is speaking truth! Age means nothing when you have the truth in you

 

[joyinhim]

Holo is speaking truth! Age means nothing when you have the truth in you

But seriously holo, popular and trendy Christianity is not what Jesus wants. He is looking for people who care about other brothers and sisters far away. From my searching those popular churches are not helping those Christians in need. Young Christians don't want to give up their materialistic life style and save up for needy Christians. If we don't have heart for those Christians and give them help we are not much of loving Christians.

 

[Godzchild]

But seriously holo, popular and trendy Christianity is not what Jesus wants. He is looking for people who care about other brothers and sisters far away. From my searching those popular churches are not helping those Christians in need. Young Christians don't want to give up their materialistic life style and save up for needy Christians. If we don't have heart for those Christians and give them help we are not much of loving Christians.

Christ himself went out into the highways and byways and sat and ate with prostitutes etc. If you're calling what Holo is doing "trendy" and "popular" and the style doesn't bring people to God then you will have to put Christ in that catagory too. At no point did he expect the needy SEEK HIM OUT. He went out AMONGST them and sought them out. He found them and met them where they were at...he was amongst their filth and related to them at THEIR level. He did not expect them to come looking for him in some synagog where they would probably have been thrown out ..he went to them!

There is room for everyone in God's Church. There is room for all differen't people from all walks of life. In fact, these different people are called to minister to those who are like they were. Holo was once like them...what better person to preach to them about Jesus' love than one who was like them? Hmmmm?

 

[Jim Woodell]

Christ himself went out into the highways and byways and sat and ate with prostitutes etc. If you're calling what Holo is doing "trendy" and "popular" and the style doesn't bring people to God then you will have to put Christ in that catagory too. At no point did he expect the needy SEEK HIM OUT. He went out AMONGST them and sought them out. He found them and met them where they were at...he was amongst their filth and related to them at THEIR level. He did not expect them to come looking for him in some synagog where they would probably have been thrown out ..he went to them!

There is room for everyone in God's Church. There is room for all differen't people from all walks of life. In fact, these different people are called to minister to those who are like they were. Holo was once like them...what better person to preach to them about Jesus' love than one who was like them? Hmmmm?

What you say in this post is right on. We should immulate the life of Jesus who went where the sinners were (Matt. 9:9-13). He was also clear regarding the judgment of God toward those who refused or neglected to minister through life (Matt. 25:31-46). Remember, those on the left "will go away to eternal p;unishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (Matt. 25:46) What happens if we don't go? What happens if we don't feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give water to the thirsty, visit those in prison, etc. Read the text.

There is room in the church for everyone because God places members in His body (1 Cor. 12:18; Acts 2:47), "just as he wanted them to be."

Question: How do you know what Holo was like? You say he was once "like them." Who was he like?

 

[Godzchild]

Holo said that he was a drug addict etc...I was saying that he could minister to the druggos and the delelicts because that's what he was before.

As for the judgement of God - that's just it - IT'S GOD'S JUDGEMENT. Christ, however, did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. We are to preach the gospel to every creature. Jesus is perfect example of how to do this...go out and meet them at their level and show them the love and mercy of God.

 

[joyinhim]

Holo said that he was a drug addict etc...I was saying that he could minister to the druggos and the delelicts because that's what he was before.

As for the judgement of God - that's just it - IT'S GOD'S JUDGEMENT. Christ, however, did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. We are to preach the gospel to every creature. Jesus is perfect example of how to do this...go out and meet them at their level and show them the love and mercy of God.

Of course but I haven't seen much of witnessing all around me. I also have a former drug addict, smoker and adulterous daughter, and God has been using her powerfully because she is willing to be used. She is only 27 years old. She does not have a big mouth like me but regardless she is powerful witness for the Lord every day.

 

[Jim Woodell]

[

QUOTE=Godzchild]Holo said that he was a drug addict etc...I was saying that he could minister to the druggos and the delelicts because that's what he was before.

I missed that post and was just curious. And you are right that he can do that more effectively than someone who has never know addiction. I say, "God bless him in that ministry!"

As for the judgement of God - that's just it - IT'S GOD'S JUDGEMENT. Christ, however, did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. We are to preach the gospel to every creature. Jesus is perfect example of how to do this...go out and meet them at their level and show them the love and mercy of God.

I agree that "IT'S GOD'S JUDGEMENT," just as you say, however the subject of this thread is OSAS, I think. As a retardant to a person "falling away" from God we (Christians) are told, "See to it, brothers, that none of has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so tha t none of you may be hardened by sins's deceitfulness." (Heb. 3:12-13)

We (Christians) are instructed in scripture to judge: "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right JUDGMENT." (John 7:24) Also read 1 Cor. 6:1-6.

Paul taught that we should judge ourselves: "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?" (2 Cor. 13:5) Also, read carefully 1 Cor. 10:1ff. In verse 12 Paul writes, "So, if yu think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall." What happened to Israelites can also happen to us (1 Cor. 10:11).

God bless.

 

[joyinhim]

[

I missed that post and was just curious. And you are right that he can do that more effectively than someone who has never know addiction. I say, "God bless him in that ministry!"




I agree that "IT'S GOD'S JUDGEMENT," just as you say, however the subject of this thread is OSAS, I think. As a retardant to a person "falling away" from God we (Christians) are told, "See to it, brothers, that none of has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so tha t none of you may be hardened by sins's deceitfulness." (Heb. 3:12-13)

We (Christians) are instructed in scripture to judge: "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right JUDGMENT." (John 7:24) Also read 1 Cor. 6:1-6.

Paul taught that we should judge ourselves: "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?" (2 Cor. 13:5) Also, read carefully 1 Cor. 10:1ff. In verse 12 Paul writes, "So, if yu think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall." What happened to Israelites can also happen to us (1 Cor. 10:11).

God bless.

Do you realize you are judging too? We are all judging each other. Let's not fool ourselves.

 

[holo]

Hey holo. You have a lot of admirers. You can start you own church. And you are only 26 years old.

Hehe, that would be cool, but I'm not a leader kind of guy, besides, we're already all members of the only Church that matters.

But seriously holo, popular and trendy Christianity is not what Jesus wants.

Believe me, this isn't very popular among others than the tired and broken hearted. The religious establishment doesn't like this kind of thing at all around here. I often feel alone.

He is looking for people who care about other brothers and sisters far away.

In my experience, he's longing to *make* people care. IMO he's been looking for the broken and useless and the addicts like me, even choosing us. I have a love in me now that I never even knew existed back when I was caught up in legalism and the struggling form of christianity that's been prevalent around here.

Young Christians don't want to give up their materialistic life style and save up for needy Christians. If we don't have heart for those Christians and give them help we are not much of loving Christians.

Again, I think the answer is seeing God's grace. Morality and zeal may be good, but by golly, grace does a much better job.

Anyway, I was thinking about the two of us last night. I don't even know if we're on the same continent. Different ages and all probably. I would very much like for us to try and understand each other. Please don't give up on me even if my views seem radical and even heretic. I wish you could see my life now compared to how it used to be. The famed fruits have finally begun to appear after what feels like a lifetime (only 26 years, but still) of christianity.

Only Jesus. Only the blood. I'm nothing at all without him. I realize that more and more every day.

Gotta run to work. Don't get banned while I'm away

 

[Godzchild]

I agree that "IT'S GOD'S JUDGEMENT," just as you say, however the subject of this thread is OSAS, I think. As a retardant to a person "falling away" from God we (Christians) are told, "See to it, brothers, that none of has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so tha t none of you may be hardened by sins's deceitfulness." (Heb. 3:12-13)

God has the power to keep you from falling. I have fallen away as a Christian...but I didn't fall too far that I couldn't come back...why? I ask you...what made me come back?

We (Christians) are instructed in scripture to judge: "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right JUDGMENT." (John 7:24) Also read 1 Cor. 6:1-6.

When people are talking to people on the internet they can only ever judge on appearances. Based on the fact that you neither know the person or the person's past. If you could know where I've been and the path that I've walked then you'd know that your 'judgement' is wasted on me.

Paul taught that we should judge ourselves: "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?" (2 Cor. 13:5) Also, read carefully 1 Cor. 10:1ff. In verse 12 Paul writes, "So, if yu think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall." What happened to Israelites can also happen to us (1 Cor. 10:11).

We are told to examine ourselves no judge - judge brings condemnation. We are not to be condemned. Again I say that God has the power to keep you from falling.

 

[joyinhim]

Hehe, that would be cool, but I'm not a leader kind of guy, besides, we're already all members of the only Church that matters.

Believe me, this isn't very popular among others than the tired and broken hearted. The religious establishment doesn't like this kind of thing at all around here. I often feel alone.

In my experience, he's longing to *make* people care. IMO he's been looking for the broken and useless and the addicts like me, even choosing us. I have a love in me now that I never even knew existed back when I was caught up in legalism and the struggling form of christianity that's been prevalent around here.

Again, I think the answer is seeing God's grace. Morality and zeal may be good, but by golly, grace does a much better job.

Anyway, I was thinking about the two of us last night. I don't even know if we're on the same continent. Different ages and all probably. I would very much like for us to try and understand each other. Please don't give up on me even if my views seem radical and even heretic. I wish you could see my life now compared to how it used to be. The famed fruits have finally begun to appear after what feels like a lifetime (only 26 years, but still) of christianity.

Only Jesus. Only the blood. I'm nothing at all without him. I realize that more and more every day.

Gotta run to work. Don't get banned while I'm away

holo, what makes you think you are radical? Trust me your kind of Christianity is very popular especially among young Christians. Why do you think you have so much admirers? I live in America. I am just sad about this country's materialistic mantality. I have never supported by many people. Have you noticed just about every one in this forum is against me? I don't believe majority of this country's christians are seriouse about being a servant for the Lord. They just want to feel good about being Christians. I feel sad for them. I want them to know true blessing comes from being obidient to Him.
I gave my life to Him and so did my family. Did you read about my daughter being former drug adict, smoker and adulterous? Now she has been witnessing to young Christians about importance of being obedient to Him. She also witnesses to all kinds of non-believers all around her. My three kids are my greatest blessing God ever gave me.They became commited Christians after I became one.I am very passionate about witnessing to Young or new Christians. I want them to know the true blessing. We can never have true joy and peace unless we are totally commited to Him. I am passionate to talk to young people because they are much open than older ones.

love, joyinhim

 

[joyinhim]

God has the power to keep you from falling. I have fallen away as a Christian...but I didn't fall too far that I couldn't come back...why? I ask you...what made me come back?



When people are talking to people on the internet they can only ever judge on appearances. Based on the fact that you neither know the person or the person's past. If you could know where I've been and the path that I've walked then you'd know that your 'judgement' is wasted on me.



We are told to examine ourselves no judge - judge brings condemnation. We are not to be condemned. Again I say that God has the power to keep you from falling.

I give you the same comment what i gave to Pastor Jim. You are judging too. we are all judgeing each other. I speak my conviction. I hope you are too. then we just have to wait on His judgement day.

 

[milesdude92]

In the bible it dose say that every person who was saved was predestened, if one falls away from the lord they were never saved, so if this man is now a full blown athiest, he was never saved, I think, just remember, I'm only human, so I might be wrong

 

[Jim Woodell]

God has the power to keep you from falling. I have fallen away as a Christian...but I didn't fall too far that I couldn't come back...why? I ask you...what made me come back?

Agreed. But the Christian has to respond to God's leading grace (Titus 2:11-14). We can "quench" the Spirit of God (1 Thess 5:19-22) by treating prophecies with contempt. This is a choice we make.

When people are talking to people on the internet they can only ever judge on appearances. Based on the fact that you neither know the person or the person's past. If you could know where I've been and the path that I've walked then you'd know that your 'judgement' is wasted on me.

You have misunderstood the intent of my post. I have never passed judgement on you. We are discussing what the Bible teaches, hopefully in an objective way, not "finger pointing." Whatever path you are anyone else has been on, our God is a forgiving God. Everyone needs God's grace equally (Rom. 3:23;6:23). Scripture declares that we were "dead in sin," depraved, disobedient, and doomed when God made us alive in Christ.

We are told to examine ourselves no judge - judge brings condemnation. We are not to be condemned. Again I say that God has the power to keep you from falling.

Please read 1 Cor. 11:31 that states, "But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment." When we examine ourselves, change our ways to conform to God's ways, we escape the sure consequences that come from sin. In the very next verse (1 Cor. 11:32) it says, "When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world." BUT, what if, a person does not respond to the discipline of the Lord?? The implication is that they will be condemned with the world.

God bless.