Can you fall from being saved?

FaithAlone said:

When I love the Lord I want to have a relationship with Him. Then He convicts me of what's right and wrong and helps me do the right thing. My sins do affect others so I do my best to not wrong them. That doesn't mean that I will perfectly do that though. I have a problem with people who think they're good to go because they've traded their "BIG" sins for ones that aren't as visible. Sin is sin and we need to have repentant hearts at all times. The more you realize that you're a sinner and can never be perfect, the more you are thankful that Christ paid for all of your sins. It's that cycle that helps you serve Christ.

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joyinhim said:

If I hurt someone because of my sin I apologise and stop doint it. This simple practice is not supported by most Christians. We just talk the talk.

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I wouldn't know. I don't know "most christians"

holo said:

I wouldn't know. I don't know "most christians"

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If you honestly open your eyes you would know. Don't you have any Christian friends, relatives co-workers or neighbors or even at your church ?

joyinhim said:

If I hurt someone because of my sin I apologise and stop doint it. This simple practice is not supported by most Christians. We just talk the talk.

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I'm sort of confused. Is this an apology for offense, or is it sarcasim?

Even if it's sarcasim it doesn't really matter much to me. If God could find a way to forgive a jerk like me, I am positive He will forgive a little sarcasim at my expense. He's kind of loving that way.

joyinhim said:

If you honestly open your eyes you would know. Don't you have any Christian friends, relatives co-workers or neighbors or even at your church ?

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Oh I do, I've grown up with them and I still have them. Most of my family are christians. But still, that's only like, I dunno, 50 people?

I do draw conclusions from message boards and stuff I read and videos I see, but I don't know many of them personally, you know.

For example, I'm bold (foolish) enough to assume I know a little about american christianity based on what the americans are posting here. But I also realize I'm being presumptious when I say stuff like "americans are like this and that".
Cath my drift?

naos said:

I'm sort of confused. Is this an apology for offense, or is it sarcasim?

Even if it's sarcasim it doesn't really matter much to me. If God could find a way to forgive a jerk like me, I am positive He will forgive a little sarcasim at my expense. He's kind of loving that way.

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No I am not being sarcastic. I am talking about the seriousness of sins. God gave us commandments to keep us from hurting each other. So many Christians are offended by His commandments. I just don't get it. Why does keeping His commandment make us legalists? I am trying to make you understand what you are doing with your comments or Christianity. If we love each other we keep will His commandments. It's just simple logic.

Instead of just writing on the paper, stop sinning.

This is also for holo

Ummm we CAN'T stop sinning - that's the problem!! The ONLY reason why we TRY to not sin is because of hte HOly Spirit. The good works come from the Holy spirit NOT US. Because we are incapable of doing good because there is no good in us without the HS.

Godzchild said:

Ummm we CAN'T stop sinning - that's the problem!! The ONLY reason why we TRY to not sin is because of hte HOly Spirit. The good works come from the Holy spirit NOT US. Because we are incapable of doing good because there is no good in us without the HS.

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So what you are saying is when you hurt someone you just brush it off?

When I love the Lord I want to have a relationship with Him. Then He convicts me of what's right and wrong and helps me do the right thing. My sins do affect others so I do my best to not wrong them. That doesn't mean that I will perfectly do that though. I have a problem with people who think they're good to go because they've traded their "BIG" sins for ones that aren't as visible. Sin is sin and we need to have repentant hearts at all times. The more you realize that you're a sinner and can never be perfect, the more you are thankful that Christ paid for all of your sins. It's that cycle that helps you serve Christ.

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Very good post!!!!

So what you are saying is when you hurt someone you just brush it off?

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Anyone who loves God would allow Jesus blood to brush it off. That's what Grace is all about. Those who love God will do their best not to sin but when they do they don't freak out about it because they know what Jesus died for.

Repentence means to 'turn around' or to 'change mind' it does not mean you sit and beg forgiveness of God and say "sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry" over and over and feel bad for sinning. A true Christian knows that they are forgiven before they've even realised they've sinned and it's this forgiveness that brings repentence because we love God so much.

Let me put it another way...(this is how it was explained to me)

Couple A - Jack is married to Jill but threatens her. He tell her to iron his clothes and to make his lunch and if she doesn't Look out! She gets a beating! He demands that she love him and obey him and if she doesn't there are consequences. She is forced to love and obey him. Do you think that Jill will obey Jack out of love? Or out of fear of the consequences? Do you think that Jill's love is real? Or do you think it's forced out of fear? Is it really love?

Couple B - John is married to Mary and John expresses his love for mary night and day. He dotes on her and only ever wants Mary to love him in return. That is ALL that he ever asks of Mary..for her to love him and only him. Mary..of her own free will...irons his clothes and makes his lunch every single day. Because she doesn't want to the suffer the consequences? No...what consequences? She does it because she loves her husband John. Not only that, but when she makes a mistake or when she doesn't quite get the ironing done or maybe his lunches are made properly on occasion...she doesn't have to worry because she knows that John will never beat her and he will continue to love her. In fact John says

"Hey you forgot my lunch this morning sweetie"

mary - "Oh did I? oops"

John - "never mind honey"

Mary continues to make his lunch and iron his shirts because she loves her husband. She doesn't have to think about it, she doesn't have to worry about forgetting from time to time...and most of all she knows that her husband will love her regardless.

My relationship with my God is the same. He loves me and dotes on me and he gives me gifts so as to woo me. He does not threaten me into submission...yet I submit. I submit without thinking...I don't even have to make any effort at all to do what he wants me to do...because I love him and I know that he loves me in return. When I make mistakes he lovingly brings it to my attention, and when I acknowledge it..he then puts his loving arms around me and holds me close...letting me know that everything will be alright because he loves me.

There lies the difference between walking in Grace and walking under the law.

holo said:

If you really think that, be careful to decide that the girl in question has fallen from salvation (don't know how though) or indeed that she was never saved in the first place.

I don't think you can use her living with her boyfriend etc anymore than her church-going, to decide whether or not she's saved.

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But then Jesus said, "She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." John 8:11

Of course, many believers fall away, but then come back. Ultimately, it is God's judgment.

Then if it's God's judgement then maybe you should allow God to do his job then eh?

joyinhim said:

No I am not being sarcastic. I am talking about the seriousness of sins. God gave us commandments to keep us from hurting each other. So many Christians are offended by His commandments. I just don't get it. Why does keeping His commandment make us legalists? I am trying to make you understand what you are doing with your comments or Christianity. If we love each other we keep will His commandments. It's just simple logic.

Instead of just writing on the paper, stop sinning.

This is also for holo

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The writing thing was a metaphore. I don't think I even own a red pen.

naos said:

The writing thing was a metaphore. I don't think I even own a red pen.

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Ok, but my question for you still the same. What do you do when you hurt some one with your sin?

Godzchild said:

Then if it's God's judgement then maybe you should allow God to do his job then eh?

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Who are you talking too?

cristalblaze said:

But then Jesus said, "She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." John 8:11

Of course, many believers fall away, but then come back. Ultimately, it is God's judgment.

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Thank you for your help.

WhyAjani said:

Let's take this situation for an example...
Let's say this man discovers Christ through a life of hardship. He's a very intelligent man who is often a skeptic. Well he finds Christ and dedicates his life to him for 10 years. He was saved. Until he comes across to someone to feed him lies about how there is no evidence for Christ. His skeptic nature kicks in and he walks away from Christ because of this evidence.
He was saved from the heart. It says once you are saved you are pre-destined and you cannot be taken away from him.
So if this gentlemen is a full blown athiest now, is he still secured in heaven?
"And let's say in another situation someone was saved and 10 years later they live a life of sin."
What will happen?

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The Bible tells us that if a person denies Christ, he never truly knew Christ to begin with. 1 John 2:19 declares 19They went out from our number, but they did not [really] belong to us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us. But [they withdrew] that it might be plain that they all are not of us.

A person who rejects Christ and turns their back on faith is demonstrating that they never belonged to Christ. Those who belong to Christ remain with Christ. Those who renounce their faith never had it to begin with. 2 Timothy 2:11-13...
11The saying is sure and worthy of confidence: If we have died with Him, we shall also live with Him.
12If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny and disown and reject Him, He will also deny and disown and reject us.
13If we are faithless [do not believe and are untrue to Him], He remains true (faithful to His Word and His righteous character), for He cannot deny Himself.

The Bible tells us that if a person denies Christ, he never truly knew Christ to begin with. 1 John 2:19 declares 19They went out from our number, but they did not [really] belong to us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us. But [they withdrew] that it might be plain that they all are not of us.

A person who rejects Christ and turns their back on faith is demonstrating that they never belonged to Christ. Those who belong to Christ remain with Christ. Those who renounce their faith never had it to begin with. 2 Timothy 2:11-13...
11The saying is sure and worthy of confidence: If we have died with Him, we shall also live with Him.
12If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny and disown and reject Him, He will also deny and disown and reject us.
13If we are faithless [do not believe and are untrue to Him], He remains true (faithful to His Word and His righteous character), for He cannot deny Himself.

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Good post

joyinhim said:

This is also for holo

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Sometimes I get the feeling you see me as some kind of guy who doesn't care about right or wrong or doesn't take Jesus very seriously. I don't know why, or what I've said, that apparently makes you assume I sin a lot or whatever. And maybe I'm simply wrong about you.

But anyway.
If I do something wrong, I am forgiven.
If I do something right, it's in His power.
If I have some good quality, it's from Him.
I bow to Him because He's greater than me.
I worship Him because I've seen some of his holiness.
I turn to Him because He's wiser than me.
I reach for His love because, in myself, I'm unable to love and forgive people like I should.
I love Him because He loved me first.
Anything at all that might be good about me, is his work. Even my will to do good comes from him.

God hasn't judged me, and therefore you can't. And even if some should have the audicity to to that, there's no reason in the world for me to accept that judgment.

I walk in grace and grace only. I need it every day, and I need it just as much now as when I first turned to Jesus. It's not a matter of repentance and "stopping sinning," it's about walking in grace. Practicing grace.
No, that does not mean everything is ok (but I have found out that a lot of "sins" are nothing but human commandments and norms), but it means I'm free, righteous, clean, holy 24/7.

You seem to have made assumptions about me, and that's ok. It's the internet and all. But if you'll allow me to make a few assumptions about you and your way of thinking, it seems to me that you grade people by how much or little they sin, and their love for Jesus by zeal to live by commandments.

I've been a drug addicted, anxiety-ridden messed up hopeless piece of dirt, bound by hate and fear. Christianity never saved me. Commandments never helped me. Jesus did. Law only condemned me, and I'm afraid it can never do anything but that to anyone. People will sit in their churches, where they very well know harlots and junkies dare not come in, and they'll point their fingers at me and my beer and tell me I live in sin because I'm out on the street or having a spontaneous service in the middle of the night with a drunken gypsy and high speed freak.

People treat christianity as a religion, with all it's rules and norms, and the bible as some sort of code we have to dechipher (except, it's blissfully clear what it says to everybody, as we can see all the time on this board where it's frequently used to "win" arguments).
Nah. I shun christianity. I want Jesus. I want to know him better. I want to treat him like a person.
I don't analyze my friends. I don't need to study in cell groups to figure out what another friend likes. I don't struggle to live up to my friends' expectations. They expect me to be me, and they love me because I am me.
And Jesus loves us even more.
Let us not reduce our walk with Jesus to observing commandments or repenting in the correct way. There's no life in that.

Yes, I stumble and fall. I always did. But you know what? Now it's because I'm walking, not because I fall asleep in the chair.

(sorry for the rant, I'm in a hurry and all)
(oh, and no offence meant to anyone)

Here's one thing I hate:

When people qoute Jesus "go and sin no more" and turn it into some kind of "hah! told you so, it's right here in black and white - STOP SINNING."
It's amazing that we don't seem to see the order of things. Jesus forgave, thus giving her the power to overcome sin. But we prefer to skip the whole mercy part and go straight to jail, so to speak.

Also, if she did sin again (hands up everyone who suspect she might, in some way or another, have sinned again before she died), I'm 100% sure Jesus would have said the exact same thing.

In forgiveness, in grace, lies the very power we need to overcome sin. A common mistake is to assume the flesh is overcome by the flesh. But a kingdom at war with itself will perish. Spirit is to flesh like rocks are to scissors, when it comes to living right. Flesh vs. flesh = even score. Nobody wins.

So if we want anyone to overcome whatever sin we feel like pointing out, we must forgive. Be graceful. Forgive 777 times if we have to. Hope the best, believe the best, look for the best. See other people as Jesus sees us.