• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

Can you check this for heterodoxy? Thanks.

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Thatgirloncfforums, Oct 16, 2021.

  1. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

    +571
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Private
    In another forum, a member posted the following:
    I have never heard of this before. Does Orthodoxy consider the Ten Commandments as part of or distinct from the Mosaic Covenant?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

    +5,357
    United States
    Oriental Orthodox
    Single
    Is this SDA? Yes I think it is heterodox simply because it sounds different than the traditional orthodox Christian teaching on the Eternal nature of God. This is heterodox because the 10 commandments come from the mind of God etc. but they do not share his Divine attributes and nature, which includes things like being uncreated and pre-existent. This actually is a Koranic / Islamic take on the 10 commandments because Muslims really believe that is something that Eternally proceeds from Allah, is Eternally spoken etc.


    I got say, the more I look into SDA the more I begin to believe that it was a mistake for churches to take them off the cult list. They may have reformed a lot, but their still is a weird "Bait and Switch" game that is played when it comes to them and Saturday and Sunday. Even if you follow traditional Christian practice and see both days as sacred, times of rest and worship they still seem to demagogue against worshipping on the day of the Lord, where it seems they want to cast pagan aspersions (going back to their belief it is the Mark of the Beast).


    Besides all this stuff, Love of God and Neighbor are the summary of all the 613 total Mitzvot. The commandments are specific examples of how to do that aimed at covering the basic areas of life. The Law itself in it's entirety was likened by saint Paul as a pedagogue which was a slave that was also a school teacher and baby sitter. (It gave a basic instruction in Godliness)


    Now I got to say, there is a lot of sophistry when it comes to the Commandments. Christians believe they are a kind of objective standard of behavior if we are really "living by the Spirit". But as the saying goes "the Devil is in the details" and we are not under the Mosaic Covenant, but many groups try to get around this fact and come up with pieces of rhetoric etc. to evade that. And interestingly, they sometimes unwittingly can actually adopt some positions of groups that they decry like the rabbis etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  3. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

    +571
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Private
    I'm not sure if this member is SDA or not. When you have time, can you look over my posts as well and correct me if need be?
    She and I seem to be coming from two different vantage points.
    Essentials verses non-Essentials
     
  4. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

    +5,357
    United States
    Oriental Orthodox
    Single
    It is the kind of logic and rhetoric I have heard repeatedly by them but not exclusive to them, there is a new discussion board that is a little more than a year old called "the Seventh Day Safehouse" where other folks who have similar or identical views do the same tricks, and some of them are very very prominent here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

    +5,357
    United States
    Oriental Orthodox
    Single
    @Thatgirloncfforums

    I'm actually glad you asked this kind of question because this general problem has been something I've been stewing on as far as writing. In particular the notion of using the official term of Heterodox to describe certain things. Of late the notion that you have to worship only Saturday etc. especially.


    I'm interested in that term as a way of describing someone who disagrees with the ancient Christian teaching on subjects that are considered dogmatic, "Biblical", what the apostles taught to their bishop successors etc. In some ways it is a synonym for heretic, but it also has a very specific and exact meaning so it might evade certain board standards. I haven't formally investigated it yet, that assumption may not be true.


    But there is this basic issue. The Church Fathers read saint Paul on subjects like not being under the Mosaic law etc. much the way that I did as a former Lutheran, and later as a nondenominational Charismatic, especially on certain issues like Acts 15, and the various epistles against the Judaizers etc. And that is very important, because they did this actually organically by actually living back then and doing their ministry, receiving Catechesis and instruction from folks like Ignatius of Antioch who knew saint John the Divine etc. So that really says something! That also reinforces certain scriptures about the Church, about it being "The Pillar of Truth", a Lamp, The Gates of Hell will not prevail against it etc. Because in my opinion there are some cans of worms that got solved 2 Millenia ago, and the fact that certain people want to undo that is very significant in a bad way...
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  6. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

    +946
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    I imagine you're referring to this? "The law of Moses and God's commandments have always been separated, they are different covenants and serve different purposes. God's Ten Commandments are Universal and Eternal."

    I really doubt that's the angle the comment in question is taking. It's more of a way to say, Yes the old covenant is over but unless you keep the seventh day holy, you're still not doing God's will.

    As far as I'm aware the SDA do allow the people who sit in the pews to dissent from some doctrinal things too. Like it's possible as a SDA to not believe in the Third Angels Message. However if a person is to be a pastor, they have to be fully on board with it.

    I'm not aware if they allow for a similar dissent about their 7th day sabbath teachings. It's not as if all SDA agree on everything, no more than EO, RCC or any flavor of Christianity. Basically when it comes to using the word heterodox, there's another religious word that can and has occurred, that word is schism.
     
  7. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

    +5,357
    United States
    Oriental Orthodox
    Single
    That word is not that good, because it really should involve a group that you recently split with. The problem with the SDA is they got more heterodox from schisming from other Protestants back in the Old Millerite days of the 1840s. But since the 70s they have reformed to try to get along with Evangelical Protestants. But to use Schism would imply "they were once in Communion" with X.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  8. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +16,968
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    it’s heterodox
     
  9. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

    +946
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    It's not unknown to history that some gentile Christians from the major faiths decided to observe the 7th day and didn't like Sunday. So yes, they were once in Communion. Besides as far as I'm aware of, even the major Christian faiths aren't fully in communion with each other either. Which in my view is more about the necessity of having written down administrative guidelines than spiritual discernment.

    Take for instance the stance on Filioque. When a Roman Catholic finds themselves in one of life's predicaments and only has access to an EO church, will they receive communion? (I'm not suggesting that should be carte blanche as well, because the last thing any place of worship needs is someone that will use doctrinal differences to create divisions.)
     
  10. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

    +7,515
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Her faith designation for her profile here is SDA
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  11. Ezana

    Ezana Ιησούς Χριστός Νικά

    172
    +240
    Canada
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    No, they will not.
     
  12. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +16,968
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    no, and it’s way more than the filioque that separates us
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  13. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

    +946
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    If only politicians could give such straightforward answers!

    So too is the Arch-Dude of the Apostolic when comparing the words of a SDA with Islamic thought.

    I find it insightful and something to think about. Maybe learn something new, get that second opinion for a second opinion. I'm still not sure what Islam has to do with it though..
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  14. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

    +5,357
    United States
    Oriental Orthodox
    Single
    It's just about abstract similarities, as well as things like Phronema (described below). Which can often be useful when talking things like Church history, heresies and such, especially when Modern Groups basically reinventing ancient heresies.


    Their is an orthodox and Biblical term called a Phronema that relates to that kind of thing. It literally means a mindset. Some groups have a way different attitude and philosophy on something that they claim is "Biblical" but it really isn't when you look at the stuff going on in both ancient times in Judaism (The context of the NT) and by various historical sources like the Apostolic Fathers, various ancient Christian and Roman historians etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  15. SamanthaAnastasia

    SamanthaAnastasia Just a library lady

    812
    +829
    Germany
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    From my understanding theres the Noahide’s laws (seven laws of Noah) part of the Noahic covenant and then the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic Covenant which are just for Jews.

    Noah’s laws are for all of humanity, not just the Jews.

    this is apparently referenced in Acts 15:1-31.

    but the Ten Commandments are part of the mosaic covenant.
     
  16. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

    +571
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Private
    My brain can't handle tricks. I'm too busy worrying about how I come across to watch out for snares.

    I can come across as very mean and preachy myself. I don't mean to, I just have a difficult time relating to what offends others.

    Others also have the advantage of being able to quote Scripture, chapter and verse. I did not learn the Bible this way. So when I draw from Scripture it's not verbatim and usually within the context of my own words.

    I don't get hung up on the various translations. Scripture is whatever is read in the Liturgy. So I don't have a strict understanding of Canon, where this book or this translation is true while another is not.

     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  17. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

    +571
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Private
    Very nice. Yes, I would like to delve into this more too.
     
  18. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

    +571
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Private
    This is what she seems to be saying.
     
  19. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

    +571
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Private
    Should they receive communion?
    I mean, nature of God is a pretty big deal
     
  20. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

    +571
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Private
    Created grace is one which keeps me awake. I don't understand how created Grace doesn't totally destroy union with Çhrist and the concept of grace itself.
    I've been reading a lot about Pelagianism. Would he concur with a grace that is created? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term.
     
Loading...