Can you check this for heterodoxy? Thanks.

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I understood Arch to be referring to the belief that the Quran was delivered in it's entirety by Gabriel to Muhammad; that it was literally written by the finger of God. The Adventist I was talking to, made a huge deal out of the fact that the 10 commandments were written by God. If I understood her correctly, this is why it's not a part of the Mosaic Covenant.

If only politicians could give such straightforward answers!

So too is the Arch-Dude of the Apostolic when comparing the words of a SDA with Islamic thought.

I find it insightful and something to think about. Maybe learn something new, get that second opinion for a second opinion. I'm still not sure what Islam has to do with it though..

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I don't understand.

From my understanding theres the Noahide’s laws (seven laws of Noah) part of the Noahic covenant and then the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic Covenant which are just for Jews.

Noah’s laws are for all of humanity, not just the Jews.

this is apparently referenced in Acts 15:1-31.

but the Ten Commandments are part of the mosaic covenant.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Created grace is one which keeps me awake. I don't understand how created Grace doesn't totally destroy union with Çhrist and the concept of grace itself.
I've been reading a lot about Pelagianism. Would he concur with a grace that is created? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term.

not sure about Pelagius, but you’re right that created grace makes actual union with God impossible

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

not sure about Pelagius, but you’re right that created grace makes actual union with God impossible

Holy Hesychia: Notes on Created and Uncreated Grace
This may be the Lutheran in me, but it seems that in EO, grace is entirely monergistic, ie, something originating from God, whereas, for Rome, created grace is a product of both uncreated grace and man's achievement.
Rome would say that created grace is created entirely by God, but I don't get this. If it is an effect in man (who has an intellect and will), how can man not be involved?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I suppose since created grace is a substance in RC, it can reside within man, without drawing upon him as man. Like water in a container. But then, grace is distinct from both man and God. It's a third created--something.
Idk, it's all very confusing to me.

Holy Hesychia: Notes on Created and Uncreated Grace
This may be the Lutheran in me, but it seems that in EO, grace is entirely monergistic, ie, something originating from God, whereas, for Rome, created grace is a product of both uncreated grace and man's achievement.
Rome would say that created grace is created entirely by God, but I don't get this. If it is an effect in man (who has an intellect and will), how can man not be involved?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I suppose since created grace is a substance in RC, it can reside within man, without drawing upon him as man. Like water in a container. But then, grace is distinct from both man and God. It's a third created--something.
Idk, it's all very confusing to me.

Well you could look more into Aristotle and theology which will either make you less confused or more confused.


Stuff like this

Aristotle East and West: Metaphysics and the Division of Christendom - SILO.PUB


A R I S TOT L E E A S T A N D W E S T

Historians of philosophy have tended to limit the study of Christian philosophy during the Middle Ages to the medieval West. This book presents the thought of the Greek Fathers as a significant and substantial alternative. Focusing on the central issue of the nature of God and the relationship between God’s being and activity, David Bradshaw traces the history of energeia and related concepts from their startingpoint in Aristotle, through the pagan Neoplatonists, to thinkers such as Augustine, Boethius, and Aquinas (in the West) and Dionysius the Areopagite, Maximus the Confessor, and Gregory Palamas (in the East). The result is a powerful comparative history of philosophical thought in the two halves of Christendom, providing a philosophical backdrop to the schism between the eastern and western churches. It will be of wide interest to readers in philosophy, theology, and medieval history. d av i d b r adsh aw is an Associate Professor in the Department of Philosophy, University of Kentucky. He has published in a number of journals including Ancient Philosophy, Journal of the History of Philosophy, Review of Metaphysics, and the American Catholic Philosophical Quarterly.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Holy Hesychia: Notes on Created and Uncreated Grace
This may be the Lutheran in me, but it seems that in EO, grace is entirely monergistic, ie, something originating from God, whereas, for Rome, created grace is a product of both uncreated grace and man's achievement.
Rome would say that created grace is created entirely by God, but I don't get this. If it is an effect in man (who has an intellect and will), how can man not be involved?

grace isn’t just from God, but grace is God’s divine natural energy. grace is what is communicable and how we can know God directly and fully as He is. this is distinct from God’s essence, which is forever beyond man, and known only to God.

not sure about your last question though

 

[Lukaris]

St. Gregory Palamas in reference to the outpouring of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit ( Joel 2:28). He quotes the scripture as saying “I shall pour forth of My Spirit upon the faithful” and notes it is actually “of My Spirit” & not “My Spirit “ in the Greek translation. This is the distinction of essence & energy in matters of grace and that grace is always uncreated we can only experience this in portions and those portions are uncreated. Much of my post is paraphrase from Philokalia vol.4 St. Gregory (Palamas) Topics of Natural & Theological Science” ( #75). Check it for accuracy.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

grace isn’t just from God, but grace is God’s divine natural energy. grace is what is communicable and how we can know God directly and fully as He is. this is distinct from God’s essence, which is forever beyond man, and known only to God.

Beautiful. I suppose Monergism then, is not quite the right word for it. Monergism =one work.

Unless that work is considered to be God himself. Otherwise, the term synergy would be imprecise too. And Scripture does say, 'work out your salvation, for it is God who works in you'. So maybe the divine work ought to be thought of as God himself?

I need to ask my Pastor whether the work of God is the same as God, whenever he speaks about Monergism.

not sure about your last question though

I was asking how created grace can be both an effect and distinct from man.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Thank you. I'll take a look.

Well you could look more into Aristotle and theology which will either make you less confused or more confused.


Stuff like this

Aristotle East and West: Metaphysics and the Division of Christendom - SILO.PUB


A R I S TOT L E E A S T A N D W E S T

Historians of philosophy have tended to limit the study of Christian philosophy during the Middle Ages to the medieval West. This book presents the thought of the Greek Fathers as a significant and substantial alternative. Focusing on the central issue of the nature of God and the relationship between God’s being and activity, David Bradshaw traces the history of energeia and related concepts from their startingpoint in Aristotle, through the pagan Neoplatonists, to thinkers such as Augustine, Boethius, and Aquinas (in the West) and Dionysius the Areopagite, Maximus the Confessor, and Gregory Palamas (in the East). The result is a powerful comparative history of philosophical thought in the two halves of Christendom, providing a philosophical backdrop to the schism between the eastern and western churches. It will be of wide interest to readers in philosophy, theology, and medieval history. d av i d b r adsh aw is an Associate Professor in the Department of Philosophy, University of Kentucky. He has published in a number of journals including Ancient Philosophy, Journal of the History of Philosophy, Review of Metaphysics, and the American Catholic Philosophical Quarterly.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Beautiful. I suppose Monergism then, is not quite the right word for it. Monergism =one work.

Unless that work is considered to be God himself. Otherwise, the term synergy would be imprecise too. And Scripture does say, 'work out your salvation, for it is God who works in you'. So maybe the divine work ought to be thought of as God himself?

I need to ask my Pastor whether the work of God is the same as God, whenever he speaks about Monergism.

I was asking how created grace can be both an effect and distinct from man.

not sure about your pastor. monoenergism for us is a heresy from the 600s.

synergy is actually pretty precise in this regard.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

not sure about your pastor. monoenergism for us is a heresy from the 600s.

Monergism:
Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Catholic Catechism 210

Monoenergism: Christ has one will.

(This is a heresy for us too).

synergy is actually pretty precise in this regard.

Lutherans believe in a synergistic sanctification. But regeneration is said to be God's work alone. Now, just like the RC, Lutherans believe that grace is God's favor and they are likewise still operating under the idea of merit.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Monergism:
Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Catholic Catechism 210

Monoenergism: Christ has one will.

oops, sorry for the misread. although, monothelitism is the heresy that Christ only has one will.

Lutherans believe in a synergistic sanctification. But regeneration is said to be God's work alone. Now, just like the RC, Lutherans believe that grace is God's favor and they are likewise still operating under the idea of merit.

ah, yeah. we would disagree that grace is God’s favor.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

oops, sorry for the misread. although, monothelitism is the heresy that Christ only has one will.

What is Monoenergism?

ah, yeah. we would disagree that grace is God’s favor.

The whole penitential system of Rome and Protestantism has always bothered me. It's the reason why I began looking toward Orthodoxy.

For example, during public confession, we say: I a poor miserable sinner, confess unto you all my sins and iniquities with which I have ever offended you and justly deserve your present and eternal punishment. But, I am heartly sorry for them and sincerely repent of them and I pray you of your bountiful mercy and for the sake of the innocent bitter sufferings and death of your most beloved Son, my Lord Jesus Christ, to be gracious unto me a poor sinful being.

As sinners we are set at odds against God. He becomes the Other whom we are constantly appealing to, to not be angry. At least that is how I am affected. A lot of people find comfort in Lutheranism. There is a great deal if it, but you must first recognize yourself as estranged.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

ah, yeah. we would disagree that grace is God’s favor.

It's an energy right?

 

[ArmyMatt]

What is Monoenergism?

that Christ only has one energy or operation

 

[ArmyMatt]

It's an energy right?

yep, His divine energies are grace