Can you be SINLESS?

[not under law]

Are you meaning that the righteousness of Christ is given to us to put a covering over us so the sins we still commit are not seen by the Father and not accounted to us?

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

Heb10:15-18



Sacrifices for sin were made for those in(in) the old covenant. They were not one time events. If you committed sin, a sacrifice had to be made. Under the new covenant, what is the reason given that they no longer need to be made? : Their sins and laweless acts I will remember no more. So this cannot refer to only past sins being forgiven at conversion, for that is not why sacrifices for sin were made. Hence: You do not live your life under the law.

If you mean did Jesus only die for past sins, as I have already shown you, if that were true Paul preached a false message

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

Heb10:15-18



Sacrifices for sin were made for those in(in) the old covenant. They were not one time events. If you committed sin, a sacrifice had to be made. Under the new covenant, what is the reason given that they no longer need to be made? : Their sins and laweless acts I will remember no more. So this cannot refer to only past sins being forgiven at conversion, for that is not why sacrifices for sin were made. Hence: You do not live your life under the law.

If you mean did Jesus only die for past sins, as I have already shown you, if that were true Paul preached a false message

So is the answer yes, that we still commit sins of lawlessness and they are not accounted to us?

 

[not under law]

So is the answer yes, that we still commit sins of lawlessness and they are not accounted to us?

If you are not under law, you are not under righteousness of obeying the law
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John 3:4
The believers righteousness is faith in Christ, not obeying the law. I have already shown you sin is the transgression of the law. All sin is lawlessness. Jesus died for a believers sins

 

[CharismaticLady]

If you are not under law, you are not under righteousness of obeying the law
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John 3:4
The believers righteousness is faith in Christ, not obeying the law. I have already shown you sin is the transgression of the law. All sin is lawlessness. Jesus died for a believers sins

The law was taken away because it was weak. It did nothing about our sinful nature that constantly spewed out sin. Jesus came to give us His powerful sinless Spirit to change our sinful nature into a divine nature that no longer committed unrighteousness.

The difference in covenants from the old to the new is LAW vs. SPIRIT. The old covenant was trying to keep the law with a sinful nature. The new covenant is filling us with His Spirit who cannot commit sin, so we don't COMMIT the sin, not just cover it up.

Romans 7:13
Romans 8:1-9

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

Heb10:15-18



Sacrifices for sin were made for those in(in) the old covenant. They were not one time events. If you committed sin, a sacrifice had to be made. Under the new covenant, what is the reason given that they no longer need to be made? : Their sins and laweless acts I will remember no more. So this cannot refer to only past sins being forgiven at conversion, for that is not why sacrifices for sin were made. Hence: You do not live your life under the law.

If you mean did Jesus only die for past sins, as I have already shown you, if that were true Paul preached a false message

Jesus came to take away our sin (full stop!) That means power to not sin at all.


Daniel 9:24
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,

 

[not under law]

Jesus came to take away our sin (full stop!) That means power to not sin at all.


Daniel 9:24
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,

I gave you some examples of sin, you did not respond to them. No one in this thread who claims never to commit sin perfectly obeys where those examples are concerned.

 

[not under law]

The law was taken away because it was weak. It did nothing about our sinful nature that constantly spewed out sin. Jesus came to give us His powerful sinless Spirit to change our sinful nature into a divine nature that no longer committed unrighteousness.

The difference in covenants from the old to the new is LAW vs. SPIRIT. The old covenant was trying to keep the law with a sinful nature. The new covenant is filling us with His Spirit who cannot commit sin, so we don't COMMIT the sin, not just cover it up.

Romans 7:13
Romans 8:1-9

If you get angry with anyone without just cause you commit sin.
If you have negative thoughts about others that is not loving them, you commit sin
If you dwell on any impure thought you commit sin
If you fail to love all your neighbours, without slip, you commit sin.

Your statement is not the reality I am afraid.
BTW
Righteousness of obeying the law was removed, not what is written in the Holy, righteous and just law of God. The moral part of that law is written in your mind and placed on your heart b y the Spirit of the living God.
You need to read the bible as one cohesive whole. So far, you have not responded to what I have shown you:
The believer has no righteousness of obeying the law. They have righteousness apart from law. Their righteousness is faith in Christ(rom3:20-22)
Sin is the transgression of the law(1John3:4)
The above is all true, it is written in the bible. You seem to be having difficulty with it.
The bible also says the verses you would wish to quote, you have to put it all together as one cohesive whole. If you cannot do that, you do not properly understand the message of the cross

 

[CharismaticLady]

I gave you some examples of sin, you did not respond to them. No one in this thread who claims never to commit sin perfectly obeys where those examples are concerned.

That's pretty advanced; are you sure you can handle the answer?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Righteousness of obeying the law was removed, not what is written in the Holy, righteous and just law of God. The moral part of that law is written in your mind and placed on your heart b y the Spirit of the living God.

Good! Finally something we can agree to.

The believer has no righteousness of obeying the law. They have righteousness apart from law. Their righteousness is faith in Christ(rom3:20-22)

This is true if it is true faith. The law of the New Covenant is deeper than the law of the Old Covenant. That is why we are not under the old law. It couldn't be kept with a sinful nature. The sinful nature being changed to a righteous nature or divine nature is WHY we are no longer under the old law. It is not necessary and longer. The righteous requirements of the eternal laws of God are kept through walking in the Spirit. On that I think we agree above. Let me know if we don't.

Sin is the transgression of the law(1John3:4)
The above is all true, it is written in the bible. You seem to be having difficulty with it.

That is true, but read it in context with the next verse.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Read also verse 9.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

That person is walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh, also called our carnal nature, not to be confused with our bodies that will die. IOW the new nature loves God and wants to abide in Him, and He in us.

The bible also says the verses you would wish to quote, you have to put it all together as one cohesive whole. If you cannot do that, you do not properly understand the message of the cross

Rephrase. I don't know what verses you are talking about. What verses do you not agree with that I posted. Or didn't post. Not sure.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Your statement is not the reality I am afraid.

Those statements that you say are not reality are quotes from scripture. Were the apostles lying? I understand them and they are confirmed in my life. They became my reality instantly when I was baptized in the Spirit.

For you to say they are not reality should give you pause. What you are saying is they are not your reality.

 

[not under law]

That's pretty advanced; are you sure you can handle the answer?

Well if you would like to answer, I may not be as advanced as you feel you are, but I will do my best to keep up

 

[not under law]

Good! Finally something we can agree to.



This is true if it is true faith. The law of the New Covenant is deeper than the law of the Old Covenant. That is why we are not under the old law. It couldn't be kept with a sinful nature. The sinful nature being changed to a righteous nature or divine nature is WHY we are no longer under the old law. It is not necessary and longer. The righteous requirements of the eternal laws of God are kept through walking in the Spirit. On that I think we agree above. Let me know if we don't.



That is true, but read it in context with the next verse.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Read also verse 9.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

That person is walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh, also called our carnal nature, not to be confused with our bodies that will die. IOW the new nature loves God and wants to abide in Him, and He in us.



Rephrase. I don't know what verses you are talking about. What verses do you not agree with that I posted. Or didn't post. Not sure.

The law is still the law. I agree, under the new covenant the law has been brought up to its true pristine standard. So if the believer is not under the old law this would include the ten commandments? Jesus told us what that ''deeper'' standard is. Do you perfectly obey the standard Jesus taught? I have never come accross anyone who has. The belever has no righteousness of obeying the law. A belief you can only be a christian if you do not commit sin, is the same as saying, you can only be a Christian if you perfectly obey the law, or, you can only be righteous before God if you perfectly obey the law. That is the complete opposite of Paul's message. Not sure if we should say that would be heretical?

So now you have a problem don't you with your quote of 1John3:9 with your understanding of it. It opposes 1John1:8.
If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Now before you say that was written to gnostics, John is speaking in the present tense and including himself in the we. So we mustn't commit basic errors must we.

OK lets rephrase it
If a believer has no righteousness of obeying the law, they have no righteousness of not committing sin. The natural mind will rebel at that, for they cannot understand the spiritual message of Paul, taken as one cohesive whole

 

[not under law]

Those statements that you say are not reality are quotes from scripture. Were the apostles lying? I understand them and they are confirmed in my life. They became my reality instantly when I was baptized in the Spirit.

For you to say they are not reality should give you pause. What you are saying is they are not your reality.

You give selective quotes. Which I would be happy to address, if you can firstly accept the basis on which the covenant stands.
The Christian has no righteousness/justification of obeying the law, which is the same as saying, the believer has no righteousness/justification before God of not committing sin.
Did Paul lie when he continually wrote that? That should give you pause for thought, for your message is: You can only be righteous before God if you perfectly obey the law. It is a spiritual message and one the natural mind cannot comprehend, only the Holy Spirit can turn on the light

 

[not under law]

. The law of the New Covenant is deeper than the law of the Old Covenant. That is why we are not under the old law. .

And you would agree, Christ taught that deeper law whilst he walked this earth. So we should be able to clear this up easily. Do you perfectly at all times, with no slip ups obey all of Christ's commands in the Gospels?
I have never met anyone who has, in any denominational church, including charismatic churches

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well if you would like to answer, I may not be as advanced as you feel you are, but I will do my best to keep up

1 John 3:4 says sin is lawlessness. Those are major sins like murder, adultery, theft, and any of the sins of Galatians 5:19-21. They are sins unto death.

But there are also sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. In the Old Testament there was a sacrifice for them in Numbers 15:22-29.

Leviticus 5:15 calls them trespasses. They are those sins you talked of that we commit against each other. As our love grows those can be overcome, and as we forgive others their little meanness's against us, our trespasses will be forgiven us.

O our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you will not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.

In 1 John 1:7 we see someone walking in the Spirit/light and are staying in fellowship with one another (not holding grudges that separate us, and being forgiving of trespasses) and the blood of Jesus is continuing to cleanse us of our own trespasses that we don't even know about.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That is the complete opposite of Paul's message.

You've said that, then quote John... You haven't said what Paul actually said.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You give selective quotes. Which I would be happy to address, if you can firstly accept the basis on which the covenant stands.
The Christian has no righteousness/justification of obeying the law, which is the same as saying, the believer has no righteousness/justification before God of not committing sin.
Did Paul lie when he continually wrote that? That should give you pause for thought, for your message is: You can only be righteous before God if you perfectly obey the law. It is a spiritual message and one the natural mind cannot comprehend, only the Holy Spirit can turn on the light

I agree we are not under the Mosaic law.

 

[CharismaticLady]

And you would agree, Christ taught that deeper law whilst he walked this earth. So we should be able to clear this up easily. Do you perfectly at all times, with no slip ups obey all of Christ's commands in the Gospels?
I have never met anyone who has, in any denominational church, including charismatic churches

I strive hard not to hold grudges, but sometimes the hurt is so great it takes awhile, but I get there. I know the cost if I don't. I'm not a robot with no feelings.

 

[not under law]

1 John 3:4 says sin is lawlessness. Those are major sins like murder, adultery, theft, and any of the sins of Galatians 5:19-21. They are sins unto death.

But there are also sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. In the Old Testament there was a sacrifice for them in Numbers 15:22-29.

Leviticus 5:15 calls them trespasses. They are those sins you talked of that we commit against each other. As our love grows those can be overcome, and as we forgive others their little meanness's against us, our trespasses will be forgiven us.

O our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you will not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.

In 1 John 1:7 we see someone walking in the Spirit/light and are staying in fellowship with one another (not holding grudges that separate us, and being forgiving of trespasses) and the blood of Jesus is continuing to cleanse us of our own trespasses that we don't even know about.

Do you obey all of the deeper law of Christ's commands in the Gospels? Do you obey them all perfectly without slip?

 

[not under law]

I strive hard not to hold grudges, but sometimes the hurt is so great it takes awhile, but I get there. I know the cost if I don't. I'm not a robot with no feelings.

Do you perfectly, without slip obey all of Christ's commands in the Gospels, what I am sure you would agree is what you termed the deeper law the Christian is under