Can you be SINLESS?

[bmjackson]

The Jews had misinterpreted the law about working on the Sabbath to mean even not to do something that would save someone's life. Jesus did not work in the sense it was meant.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Lazarus

Lazarus was brought back from the dead, so that's not the same thing as a believer dying from a sickness and remaining permanently dead from that point on. Lazarus' death was an example of magnifying Christ's resurrection. It was a type or foreshadow of what was to come. Let me make my point here. The apostle John. Why do you think others were unable to kill him? Do you think there was some kind of correlation between the fact that the Lord regarded John in a more special way? I believe this to be the case. But you are free to see things that happen in this world as being forces that are not a part of God's plan in life. You act like the virus is a thing outside of God's control (When this is not the case). You act like the virus is not a part of God allowing for a greater plan for good (When this is not the case). You see the virus like a runaway car. But I believe that even a runaway car cannot happen unless God allows such an event to happen.

 

[Jamdoc]

Lazarus was brought back from the dead, so that's not the same thing as a believer dying from a sickness and remaining permanently dead from that point on. Lazarus' death was an example of magnifying Christ's resurrection. It was a type or foreshadow of what was to come. Let me make my point here. The apostle John. Why do you think others were unable to kill him? Do you think there was some kind of correlation between the fact that the Lord regarded John in a more special way? I believe this to be the case. But you are free to see things that happen in this world as being forces that are not a part of God's plan in life. You act like the virus is a thing outside of God's control (When this is not the case). You act like the virus is not a part of God allowing for a greater plan for good (When this is not the case). You see the virus like a runaway car. But I believe that even a runaway car cannot happen unless God allows such an event to happen.

No I'm saying that God is not promising you that you'll never get sick, and may allow a virus to infect and even kill you, even if you're walking closely with Him. It doesn't mean you're not saved, it just means God has a plan for you that involves you physically dying then. In Lazarus' case Lazarus died for the purpose of showing the grace and glory of God through Jesus raising Him from the dead, and His story of His experience in Abraham's bosom is used as one of Jesus' parables (if it's the same Lazarus anyway). Either way I thought despite our differences on salvation I thought we'd both be in agreement that a believer is not permanently dead. They are with Christ, and will one day be resurrected.

 

[Jamdoc]

The Jews had misinterpreted the law about working on the Sabbath to mean even not to do something that would save someone's life. Jesus did not work in the sense it was meant.

It wasn't just then. When his disciples were gleaning the fields as they walked through them, for anyone else, that'd have been sin. But because Jesus permitted it, it was not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No I'm saying that God is not promising you that you'll never get sick, and may allow a virus to infect and even kill you, even if you're walking closely with Him. It doesn't mean you're not saved, it just means God has a plan for you that involves you physically dying then. In Lazarus' case Lazarus died for the purpose of showing the grace and glory of God through Jesus raising Him from the dead, and His story of His experience in Abraham's bosom is used as one of Jesus' parables (if it's the same Lazarus anyway). Either way I thought despite our differences on salvation I thought we'd both be in agreement that a believer is not permanently dead. They are with Christ, and will one day be resurrected.

Surely I do believe Scripture when it talks about the physical flesh and blood resurrection of dead saints (of which I believe takes place in two phases - Once before the Millennium, and a second one for the New Earth after the Judgment). I also believe there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture and a Mid Trib Gathering up of the Saints before these events take place. I believe these gathering events are the receiving of a new immortal spiritual body to be with Christ in Heaven. I believe true saints who are sold out to Jesus and who die physically currently go to Paradise or Abraham's bosom in the heart of the Earth. After the Rapture, then saints who are faithful to the Lord and who die physically will go directly to Heaven to be with the Lord.

Anyways, no offense, but I simply got the impression by you before that the virus is not something that is not under God's control or that we cannot escape death or be protected from God from this virus if He so desires a thing to be so. You gave an answer that was similar to what the world says. I believe Christians can get sick, and die, but this could be due to their past sins. Sure, they may be forgiven, but if they lived a life that was really really really really really bad, their may be a price that they still may need to be paid. John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit since birth. So obviously his life is not like others who were steeped in sin.

I believe getting sick with death following as a form of judgment.
While it is true that the wages of sin is death, death alone is not necessarily judgment for all. For Enoch did not see death, and the church that is caught up in the air while alive will not see death, either.
Also, John was not able to be killed because he had a special favor with the Lord Jesus Christ. The Scriptures say if you honor your father, and mother there is a promise of long life.

 

[bmjackson]

It wasn't just then. When his disciples were gleaning the fields as they walked through them, for anyone else, that'd have been sin. But because Jesus permitted it, it was not.

Who says it was sin for a person to help themselves to the gleanings of the field who needed to eat on the Sabbath? It was how the Pharisees interpreted the law. It was not work.

 

[Jamdoc]

Surely I do believe Scripture when it talks about the physical flesh and blood resurrection of dead saints (of which I believe takes place in two phases - Once before the Millennium, and a second one for the New Earth after the Judgment). I also believe there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture and a Mid Trib Gathering up of the Saints before these events take place. I believe these gathering events are the receiving of a new immortal spiritual body to be with Christ in Heaven. I believe true saints who are sold out to Jesus and who die physically currently go to Paradise or Abraham's bosom in the heart of the Earth. After the Rapture, then saints who are faithful to the Lord and who die physically will go directly to Heaven to be with the Lord.

Anyways, no offense, but I simply got the impression by you before that the virus is not something that is not under God's control or that we cannot escape death or be protected from God from this virus if He so desires a thing to be so. You gave an answer that was similar to what the world says. I believe Christians can get sick, and die, but this could be due to their past sins. Sure, they may be forgiven, but if they lived a life that was really really really really really bad, their may be a price that they still may need to be paid. John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit since birth. So obviously his life is not like others who were steeped in sin.

I believe getting sick with death following as a form of judgment.
While it is true that the wages of sin is death, death alone is not necessarily judgment for all. For Enoch did not see death, and the church that is caught up in the air while alive will not see death, either.
Also, John was not able to be killed because he had a special favor with the Lord Jesus Christ. The Scriptures say if you honor your father, and mother there is a promise of long life.

No I'm saying sometimes sickness is punishment, sometimes it's testing, and sometimes it's to display God's glory (Lazarus, and the blind man that Jesus heals in the gospels where they ask Him who sinned to make him blind, and Jesus said nobody, He was blinded to show the glory of God), sometimes it's just, God calling them home. What sin does a miscarriage commit to die and be miscarried? Sometimes it's just God's plan to have someone in spirit rather than on the earth now.
Job's friends assumed that His sickness was punishment for sin. God dispelled that notion.
God's in control, but it's not always a punishment to each individual who contracts it. I think that's an important distinction to make because you'll stop looking at someone who gets sick and wonder what evil they're committing to deserve it, because it's not always the reason they got it. It could be them getting sick so that they depend on Jesus more to get them well. It could be God saying "you served your purpose on earth, come home".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No I'm saying sometimes sickness is punishment, sometimes it's testing, and sometimes it's to display God's glory (Lazarus, and the blind man that Jesus heals in the gospels where they ask Him who sinned to make him blind, and Jesus said nobody, He was blinded to show the glory of God), sometimes it's just, God calling them home.

No argument on what you said here.
Again, my problem was with your initial answer that you gave about the virus.
You did not see it as a judgment from God (of which I disagree with).
You said that the virus could kill a person even if they were righteous.
I don't agree with that assessment.

What sin does a miscarriage commit to die and be miscarried?

Original Sin (that was passed down from Adam and Eve).

Sometimes it's just God's plan to have someone in spirit rather than on the earth now.
Job's friends assumed that His sickness was punishment for sin. God dispelled that notion.

I am not in disagreement with what you said here.

God's in control, but it's not always a punishment to each individual who contracts it.

I am not referring to:

(a) General sickness that does not lead to death.

I am referring to:

(b) Sickness that leads to permanent death on the account of a person's seriousness of their sin (Note: This would not be Lazarus because he was brought back from the dead).

I think that's an important distinction to make because you'll stop looking at someone who gets sick and wonder what evil they're committing to deserve it, because it's not always the reason they got it. It could be them getting sick so that they depend on Jesus more to get them well.

No argument on what you stated here.

It could be God saying "you served your purpose on earth, come home".

Eternal Security (OSAS) Proponents, or Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationists (Generally Free Will Baptists) believe that a Christian can commit suicide and still be saved. They also say that God can kill a believer because of a really bad sin that they did and that they are not useful for His Kingdom anymore and it is better that they are in Heaven insead. Yet, this is not what the Bible teaches even remotely. Jesus warned against how sin can destroy us spiritually (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62). His followers also warned us after the cross how we can die spiritually by committing certains sins, too (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-24) (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) (Revelation 21:8).

I believe the virus is a wake up call to a very small select few Christians here in America who hold to the idea that they can justify sin and still be saved. However, most who justify sin and still be saved will continue on like they were and never get what is truly going on.

 

[Jamdoc]

No argument on what you said here.
Again, my problem was with your initial answer that you gave about the virus.
You did not see it as a judgment from God (of which I disagree with).
You said that the virus could kill a person even if they were righteous.
I don't agree with that assessment.



Original Sin (that was passed down from Adam and Eve).



I am not in disagreement with what you said here.



I am not referring to:

(a) General sickness that does not lead to death.

I am referring to:

(b) Sickness that leads to permanent death on the account of a person's seriousness of their sin (Note: This would not be Lazarus because he was brought back from the dead).



No argument on what you stated here.



Eternal Security (OSAS) Proponents, or Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationists (Generally Free Will Baptists) believe that a Christian can commit suicide and still be saved. They also say that God can kill a believer because of a really bad sin that they did and that they are not useful for His Kingdom anymore and it is better that they are in Heaven insead. Yet, this is not what the Bible teaches even remotely. Jesus warned against how sin can destroy us spiritually (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62). His followers also warned us after the cross how we can die spiritually by committing certains sins, too (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-24) (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) (Revelation 21:8).

I believe the virus is a wake up call to a very small select few Christians here in America who hold to the idea that they can justify sin and still be saved. However, most who justify sin and still be saved will continue on like they were and never get what is truly going on.

2 Samuel 12 has the story of David's baby son getting sick and dying, and David did not grieve like one with no hope, David behaved as if He already knew He'd see his son in Heaven. I don't think original sin as the way the catholics treat that doctrine (that we're all guilty of Adam's specific sin) is valid. I believe that miscarriages, aborted fetuses, stillbirths, and very young children who die before they can even understand right and wrong go to heaven, as they are still innocent.
Matthew 18:10 is another verse I like on that subject.
Matthew 19:14 is another one.
What we inherit from Adam is a sin nature and a flesh body that dies.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Samuel 12 has the story of David's baby son getting sick and dying, and David did not grieve like one with no hope, David behaved as if He already knew He'd see his son in Heaven.

In the case of David's son (respectively): David's son died from sickness because of David's sins of murder, and adultery.

I don't think original sin as the way the catholics treat that doctrine (that we're all guilty of Adam's specific sin) is valid.

I am not Catholic or Orthodox. I just believe the Bible in what it says plainly.

Original Sin:

1. "For if through the offence of one many be dead," (Romans 5:12).
2. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:22).
3. Adam & Eve's eyes opened only when Adam ate of wrong tree (Genesis 3:6-7).
4. Jesus was born of a virgin because sin is passed down by the male seed (Adam).
5. Levi paid tithes to Melchisedec while being in Abraham's loins (Hebrews 7:9-10).
6. David said that he was conceived in sin by his birth (Psalms 51:5).
7. We are said to be by nature children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3); This is different vs. when God called the creation "very good" when it was finished (Genesis 1:31).

I believe that miscarriages, aborted fetuses, stillbirths, and very young children who die before they can even understand right and wrong go to heaven, as they are still innocent.

No doubt about it. I do, too. I believe the sacrifice of Christ made it possible for them to be saved.

Matthew 18:10 is another verse I like on that subject.
Matthew 19:14 is another one.

While children are of the Kingdom and there is an aspect to children whereby they appear to be a lot more innocent than adults who have grown to be steeped in sin, this does not mean that the stain of sin has not corrupted their nature.

Proverbs 22:15 says “Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child.”
Genesis 8:21 says, “...the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth.”

So we have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word.
We have to reconcile the truths of both sides.

What we inherit from Adam is a sin nature and a flesh body that dies.

I see the sin nature as the same thing as "sin." If there is a sin nature, it is evidence of the stain of sin from Adam.

 

[GraceBro]

If you are quoting Romans around chapter 3 to 5 you are in the middle of a longer teaching and don't have the full context of Paul's lesson.

Don't be deceived. He who sins is a slave to sin, and will not inherit eternal life with the Father. But you can't stop sinning on your own. You must humble yourself and turn your weakness for sin over to Jesus and tell Him you really want to be righteous, and stop sinning and follow Him, but you can't. That is when, and only when, He will impart to you His own sinless all-powerful Spirit to you to walk in. His spirit is the seed of the Father. (That is one of the semantic changes I would make to the video - He said Word of God. But without the Spirit, you may not know what the Bible means.)

I clearly understand the context. If anybody is deceived it is those that refuse to believe in the complete forgiveness of sins (2 Corinthians 5:19; Romans 4:8; 1 John 2:2; Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 3:13). The Christians life is about trusting in and depending on your God. You can't do that if your sins are being held against you because there will always be sin separating you from your God. The reduction of sin is a byproduct of your dependence on the Lord. You will never eliminate it completely until you die and go to be with Him. The more you focus on sin the more you will stir more of it up because you will have to subject yourself to laws in order to deal with it. And the power of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56). The slave to sin is the one focused on trying to rid themselves of it by focusing on rules designed to modify their behavior. Furthermore, what sacrifice are you performing that God accepts or requires that equates to the blood of Jesus? There is none. Hebrews 10:17-18 shows that God is no longer remembering our sins and that there is no sacrifice left for sin. Furthermore, without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22). Not to mention that if God still counted our sins, He couldn't indwell us. We have to be clean for a perfect Holy Spirit to live in us. Grace and Peace.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I clearly understand the context. If anybody is deceived it is those that refuse to believe in the complete forgiveness of sins

Actually I do believe in the complete forgiveness of our past sins before we came to Christ. Those are the ones you are talking about aren't you, or do you believe you can continue to sin, and they are automatically forgiven. That is a heresy you know.

You can't do that if your sins are being held against you because there will always be sin separating you from your God. The reduction of sin is a byproduct of your dependence on the Lord. You will never eliminate it completely until you die and go to be with Him

This seems to be a false teaching out of the Reformation. They grasped nothing of the power of the Holy Spirit and hadn't a clue what being born again was. You seem to think it is after you die like they did. Are you saying that your dependence on the Lord is your doing? That it is your choice? That is true to the degree we willingly walk in the power of the Holy Spirit, and has nothing to do with we by a fallen nature obeying Christ. It can't be done.

Not to mention that if God still counted our sins, He couldn't indwell us. We have to be clean for a perfect Holy Spirit to live in us. Grace and Peace.

Correct, God does not indwell a filthy vessel. So if you willfully sin after you believe you are indwelt by God, you are erroneously believing that God is in you. The devil is.

From this post, I gather you believe the false unholy doctrine that you can sin and the blood of Jesus makes them invisible to God. As Jude say, that is turning the grace of God into licentiousness.

 

[not under law]

I clearly understand the context. If anybody is deceived it is those that refuse to believe in the complete forgiveness of sins (2 Corinthians 5:19; Romans 4:8; 1 John 2:2; Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 3:13). The Christians life is about trusting in and depending on your God. You can't do that if your sins are being held against you because there will always be sin separating you from your God. The reduction of sin is a byproduct of your dependence on the Lord. You will never eliminate it completely until you die and go to be with Him. The more you focus on sin the more you will stir more of it up because you will have to subject yourself to laws in order to deal with it. And the power of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56). The slave to sin is the one focused on trying to rid themselves of it by focusing on rules designed to modify their behavior. Furthermore, what sacrifice are you performing that God accepts or requires that equates to the blood of Jesus? There is none. Hebrews 10:17-18 shows that God is no longer remembering our sins and that there is no sacrifice left for sin. Furthermore, without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22). Not to mention that if God still counted our sins, He couldn't indwell us. We have to be clean for a perfect Holy Spirit to live in us. Grace and Peace.

Yes, the power of sin is the law. So to preach a message of ''perfectly obey the law''(do not sin) if you want to remain in a saved state gives sin great power over you. As it has done to many who have believed such a message. Great post BTW

 

[GraceBro]

re

Actually I do believe in the complete forgiveness of our past sins before we came to Christ. Those are the ones you are talking about aren't you, or do you believe you can continue to sin, and they are automatically forgiven. That is a heresy you know.



This seems to be a false teaching out of the Reformation. They grasped nothing of the power of the Holy Spirit and hadn't a clue what being born again was. You seem to think it is after you die like they did. Are you saying that your dependence on the Lord is your doing? That it is your choice? That is true to the degree we willingly walk in the power of the Holy Spirit, and has nothing to do with we by a fallen nature obeying Christ. It can't be done.



Correct, God does not indwell a filthy vessel. So if you willfully sin after you believe you are indwelt by God, you are erroneously believing that God is in you. The devil is.

From this post, I gather you believe the false unholy doctrine that you can sin and the blood of Jesus makes them invisible to God. As Jude say, that is turning the grace of God into licentiousness.

Well, all my sins are forgiven, including my future sins. How many of our sins were in the future when Jesus died on the cross? All of them. Otherwise, the death of Jesus was not sufficient. I see why you call it heresy because we don't believe the same things about forgiveness. I believe my sins are so terrible that they required the death of God as payment, not a bloodless, manmade sacrifice that God doesn't accept or require and that attempts to say Jesus lied when He said, "It is finished (John 19:30)." The ones teaching a license to sin are those who say we can just enter a confession booth, say a prayer, answer an altar call, or repeat prayers as the heathen do (Matthew 6:7). There is no power to change, only repeating the cycle of sin, ask forgiveness, sin, ask forgiveness, repeat. That is not a life of joy or one that yields intimacy with God. It will just leave a person further away from God. You may know your religion, but you won't know your God. Ultimately, we will have to agree to disagree. You have not offered one Bible verse to support your position and have not addressed a single verse I have presented. Therefore, this conversation is not about finding out what God has said on the matter, but what beliefs you are defending. Take care and God bless.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, the power of sin is the law. So to preach a message of ''perfectly obey the law''(do not sin) if you want to remain in a saved state gives sin great power over you. As it has done to many who have believed such a message. Great post BTW

Beware of the false doctrine that Jesus freed us from the law, instead of from sin itself - the need for the law. Jesus freed us from committing willful sins of the flesh by giving us a new nature that obeys Christ. Not as a robot, but from the power of God. Instead of the law of sin and death that Jesus freed us from, we now obey the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

Don't let your teachers tell you that freedom from sins of lawlessness "is impossible" and that you will "always sin." That is what the devil wants you to think. It is heresy.

 

[not under law]

Beware of false doctrine that Jesus freed us from the law, instead of from sin itself - the need for the law. Jesus freed us from committing willful sins of the flesh by giving us a new nature that obeys Christ. Not as a robot, but from the power of God. Instead of the law of sin and death that Jesus freed us from, we now obey the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

Don't let your teachers tell you that freedom from sins of lawlessness "is impossible" and that you will "always sin." That is what the devil wants you to think. It is heresy.

I do like to beware of false doctrine. If Jesus only died for past sins the believer must(must) live their life under the law, that is irrefutable. Paul continually states the Christian is not under law. Do I assume you believe he preached a heretical message?
But what is sin?
If you get angry with anyone without just cause you commit sin.
If you have negative thoughts about others that is not loving them, you commit sin
If you dwell on any impure thought you commit sin
If you fail to love all your neighbours, without slip, you commit sin
I could go on. Does anyone in this thread who claims not to commit sin pass those tests? No! So why are they not sensitive to their sin? I can only think of one reason, they have hardened hearts. That has been my experience over decades concerning this

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well, all my sins are forgiven, including my future sins. How many of our sins were in the future when Jesus died on the cross? All of them. Otherwise, the death of Jesus was not sufficient.

You are parroting the same-o same-o justification for sinning that caused Jesus to say of the age of the Reformation, "you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." It sounds inviting and many fall for it, but it is death.

Don't you know that Jesus taking away your sins is not so you will continue to sin, but so that you can't. Your new nature abhors sin. Instead of sin, you practice righteousness. I can sense your doubt. That is because you've got itching ears to do what's easy, with no change of character. That is a complete heresy that you better come out of before you can't think straight ever.

There is no power to change, only repeating the cycle of sin, ask forgiveness, sin, ask forgiveness, repeat. That is not a life of joy or one that yields intimacy with God. It will just leave a person further away from God. You may know your religion, but you won't know your God.

This is what I believe also. 1 John 1:9 agrees with Acts 2:38 and is true repentance and it is to become a Christian, not something we have to keep repeating. So instead of Jesus forgiving our future sins, we won't commit them in the first place. John 8:34-36. Does your religion teach that in your parroting the phrase "all our sins were future when Christ died"?

1 John 3:
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I do like to beware of false doctrine. If Jesus only died for past sins the believer must(must) live their life under the law, that is irrefutable.

I'm afraid you don't know what Paul means by not being under the law. Paul even addressed your false conception:

Romans 6:
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

But what is sin?
If you get angry with anyone without just cause you commit sin.
If you have negative thoughts about others that is not loving them, you commit sin
If you dwell on any impure thought you commit sin
If you fail to love all your neighbours, without slip, you commit sin
I could go on. Does anyone in this thread who claims not to commit sin pass those tests? No! So why are they not sensitive to their sin? I can only think of one reason, they have hardened hearts. That has been my experience over decades concerning this

It is not the righteous requirements of the law that were abolished, but our nature of sin was changed to that of the Spirit. It was sin from a carnal nature/flesh that brought a need for the written law called the law of sin and death. Only those who have actually truly repented and have been given God's Spirit know of the dramatic change that has taken over their mind and nature and they now live by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2-9. They love what God loves and hates what God hates, because they are now partakers of the divine nature 2 Peter 1.

 

[not under law]

I'm afraid you don't know what Paul means by not being under the law. Paul even addressed your false conception:

Romans 6:
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?



It is not the righteous requirements of the law that were abolished, but our nature of sin was changed to that of the Spirit. It was sin from a carnal nature/flesh that brought a need for the written law called the law of sin and death. Only those who have actually truly repented and have been given God's Spirit know of the dramatic change that has taken over their mind and nature and they now live by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2-9. They love what God loves and hates what God hates, because they are now partakers of the divine nature 2 Peter 1.

I do not know what Paul means by not being under the law? If you are not under the law you are not under righteousness of obeying the law
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law Christ died for nothing Gal2:21
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law/obeying the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.


21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. Rom3:20-22

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
#Therefore, if you do not have righteousness of obeying the law, you are not under law. Your righteousness is faith in Christ.
You should have quoted verse14 of ch6:
For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace.
That is a spiritual message, that can only be spiritually understood
BTW
You did not respond to my examples of what sin is. That's OK

 

[CharismaticLady]

I do not know what Paul means by not being under the law? If you are not under the law you are not under righteousness of obeying the law
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law Christ died for nothing Gal2:21
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law/obeying the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.


21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. Rom3:20-22

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
#Therefore, if you do not have righteousness of obeying the law, you are not under law. Your righteousness is faith in Christ.
You should have quoted verse14 of ch6:
For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace.
That is a spiritual message, that can only be spiritually understood
BTW
You did not respond to my examples of what sin is. That's OK

Are you meaning that the righteousness of Christ is given to us to put a covering over us so the sins we still commit are not seen by the Father and not accounted to us?