Can you be SINLESS?

[Jamdoc]

Yes, we have free will, but when born again with a new nature, our will wants righteousness. You would really have to go against your own will to sin. Why do that when you don't have to?

Because it's 2 competing wills. There's the will of your spirit, and the will of your flesh. That's why Paul said it's a DAILY struggle to DENY the flesh. Because the flesh still has its own will. We have biological urges to do things that our spirit and the holy spirit knows are wrong. When you got saved, your brain didn't get its neurons rewired, so when you see a good looking girl in skimpy clothes, your body's first reaction is lust, it's biochemical, happens on impulse before you consciously suppress it.
Someone cuts you off in traffic, your body immediately releases chemicals that make you feel angry, when your spirit knows you shouldn't.
You can to a degree, "rewire your brain" but it is a process, it's not instant. Sanctification tries to get you to deny your flesh more and walk more in spirit and to even condition your flesh to behave in a more Christ like manner, so that when you see a beautiful woman in skimpy clothes, it doesn't appeal to you, even on a basic level, when someone cuts you off in traffic, you don't even have impulsive stress and anger.
But that's not something that is easy, natural, or instant for virtually all people. Ultimately I don't think anyone truly becomes conformed to the image of Christ in this flesh.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I know of only 4 others that I have met that went through the real born again experience. I must also say that I have diligently searched for others over the years. Christ was made of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord.
Isa.11

1. [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
2. Rev.2 Verses 27 to 28
   1. 
      
      [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
   
   I very much understand what your talking about. As to books, there is only God’s Word. Have you read the book “Like a Mighty Wind” about the Indonesian Revival. The first book was written in the 1960’s and they were walking on water god was changing water to wine and even bringing the dead back to life. These miracles should be happening all around us.

I have just recently learned about healing. We have to really know who we are in Christ and then just command healing in the name of Jesus. I did that about 6 months ago on a paralyzed dog, and he was walking by the next day. Unfortunately I can't get out much. What I also found that I can't figure out the meaning is there are people that actually have a ministry of healing such as Kathryn Khulman but she, herself, died of heart failure. I can't heal myself either. Why is that?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Because it's 2 competing wills. There's the will of your spirit, and the will of your flesh. That's why Paul said it's a DAILY struggle to DENY the flesh. Because the flesh still has its own will. We have biological urges to do things that our spirit and the holy spirit knows are wrong. When you got saved, your brain didn't get its neurons rewired, so when you see a good looking girl in skimpy clothes, your body's first reaction is lust, it's biochemical, happens on impulse before you consciously suppress it.
Someone cuts you off in traffic, your body immediately releases chemicals that make you feel angry, when your spirit knows you shouldn't.
You can to a degree, "rewire your brain" but it is a process, it's not instant. Sanctification tries to get you to deny your flesh more and walk more in spirit and to even condition your flesh to behave in a more Christ like manner, so that when you see a beautiful woman in skimpy clothes, it doesn't appeal to you, even on a basic level, when someone cuts you off in traffic, you don't even have impulsive stress and anger.
But that's not something that is easy, natural, or instant for virtually all people. Ultimately I don't think anyone truly becomes conformed to the image of Christ in this flesh.

But look at Romans 8:9 We are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells within us. And if we do not have the Spirit we do not belong to Christ. So it is only when you willfully quench the Spirit that you may be drawn to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Why would anyone want to when being in the Spirit is so wonderful.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There's the will of your spirit, and the will of your flesh.

That's why Paul said it's a DAILY struggle to DENY the flesh.

Where. I hope you are not referring to Romans 7 when we were under the law before Christ came and gave us His Spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Good night all

 

[Jamdoc]

But look at Romans 8:9 We are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells within us. And if we do not have the Spirit we do not belong to Christ. So it is only when you willfully quench the Spirit that you may be drawn to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Why would anyone want to when being in the Spirit is so wonderful.

We still have a body made of flesh. You weren't transfigured when you were saved. It's still a natural body with natural tendencies towards lust, anger, hate, it's biochemical. Your spirit was born again, your brain was not.

 

[lsume]

I have just recently learned about healing. We have to really know who we are in Christ and then just command healing in the name of Jesus. I did that about 6 months ago on a paralyzed dog, and he was walking by the next day. Unfortunately I can't get out much. What I also found that I can't figure out the meaning is there are people that actually have a ministry of healing such as Kathryn Khulman but she, herself, died of heart failure. I can't heal myself either. Why is that?

Sickness comes from sin. I can’t say when that is a general truth and/or specific to ones own sin. I have prayed for my own healing to no avail. However I’ve not really been sick much. I’ve had at least 3 heart attacks and I have a defibrillator that I had them turn off. My weight is good and except for blood pressure and a couple of other minor issues I’m in great shape. I strongly feel that I’m not doing enough. When Christ Said “the night cometh when no man can work” I think that time is upon us. A verse I take comfort in among many is “thou believest there is one God, thou doest well the devils also believe and tremble.”

 

[lsume]

Yes, I understand that also. Looking back on my marriage, I believe God was checking my spirit the whole time we were dating. I married him anyway because he was a Spirit-filled Christian. Unfortunately within a month I had him in Christian counseling. He was a mess from his childhood. Now I tell young people or anyone wanting to get married to have at least a two year engagement, not six months or less. Know what you are getting into! My marriage turned into 13 years of abuse. And as he drew farther and farther away from God, I drew closer and closer. Even though we were both Spirit-filled, our backgrounds were at opposite poles. That is also being unequally yoked. I remember telling God, I know you hate divorce, so I am staying and even if he kills me I'm not sinning against you by leaving. I now know the meaning of the verse that Jesus learned obedience by the things he suffered. When I made that commitment to God, it wasn't long until he left me for the wife of his best friend, and I was free. That was in 2001 and he is still the last man I kissed as I don't want to do anything outside God's will. Besides God makes a much better Husband.

Yes there is absolutely no place for any form of sexual contact outside of marriage. I thank God that I’m not the judge. There are so few who truly understand this. The young people today are in general not being taught these fundamental truths. We recently had our second great grandchild and I must think about their future. We have been married for 47 years in June. I have no doubt that God wanted me to marry the woman I’m married to. Were I to lose her, I would not remarry.

 

[bmjackson]

I replied to you in this thread here (Just in case it is not allowed in this section of the forums).

Thank you so much for that.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We still have a body made of flesh. You weren't transfigured when you were saved. It's still a natural body with natural tendencies towards lust, anger, hate, it's biochemical. Your spirit was born again, your brain was not.

In Romans 8 this is exactly the mistake Paul was trying for you not to make. Flesh has two meanings. The one in vs. 9 is our nature which does have to do with our mind for we are given the mind of Christ, and not to be confused with our body of flesh and bone and gray matter that you are confusing it with anyway. It is only our nature that is born again of the Spirit and lives for eternity and is immortal. Our bodies do not, but will someday put on immortality. It is not our body that makes us sin, but our mind/nature.

You are not the only one who has made this mistake, so it is has to have been taught somewhere in history, but is a false teaching, and a silly one at that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you so much for that.

You are most welcome, brother.

 

[bmjackson]

You are most welcome, brother.

Sister thanks.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sister thanks.

Ah, my bad. Sorry about that.
Blessings be unto you in the Lord.

 

[bmjackson]

Ah, my bad. Sorry about that.
Blessings be unto you in the Lord.

No problem thanks.

 

[Jamdoc]

In Romans 8 this is exactly the mistake Paul was trying for you not to make. Flesh has two meanings. The one in vs. 9 is our nature which does have to do with our mind for we are given the mind of Christ, and not to be confused with our body of flesh and bone and gray matter that you are confusing it with anyway. It is only our nature that is born again of the Spirit and lives for eternity and is immortal. Our bodies do not, but will someday put on immortality. It is not our body that makes us sin, but our mind/nature.

You are not the only one who has made this mistake, so it is has to have been taught somewhere in history, but is a false teaching, and a silly one at that.

The mind is gray matter, it's biology. It's flesh, and it has instincts and natural reactions, some of which are sinful.
Like I said, if someone cuts you off in traffic, that endocrine system still kicks out chemicals that make you afraid and then angry, while your conscience/soul knows you shouldn't be. But the impulse of the body reacts faster than the suppression of that impulse by your spirit. It's out of your control because that is the chemical systems God created us to have in order to protect ourselves from danger. Fight, or flight.
Think about Jesus praying on the Mount of Olives, praying for the Father to take away the cup of His wrath that Jesus knew He had to drink from. He KNEW He had to die, He KNEW He would be resurrected in glory, earlier He had accepted that and told it to His disciples and even through parable His scoffers, but the night He was betrayed, He had a moment of weakness and fear ("the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."), had He not been God come in the flesh, He would have been sinning to do it, but His spirit's resolve overcame His flesh after that moment of weakness.

Sometimes I wonder if coming down and experiencing the human condition first hand as Jesus is what made God compassionate towards us in the first place, knowing from the beginning He would experience our weakness, and our impulses, and why He forgives us, understanding how difficult it is to act against our own bodies.

I just wanted to throw out about sinning when saved in general, from our daily proverb chapter
Proverbs 24:16

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again; but the wicked shall fall into mischief

The saved make mistakes, they sin, they recognize their sin, and their fall, and they repent, ask for forgiveness and walk in obedience again; they riseth up again.
The unsaved often sin, don't recognize it as sin, and just fall deeper and deeper and deeper.
The proverb says 7 times, but I don't think it's a specific number. I don't think God is the God of second, or seventh chances, but the God of ANOTHER chance as my pastor likes to say.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The mind is gray matter, it's biology. It's flesh, and it has instincts and natural reactions, some of which are sinful.
Like I said, if someone cuts you off in traffic, that endocrine system still kicks out chemicals that make you afraid and then angry, while your conscience/soul knows you shouldn't be. But the impulse of the body reacts faster than the suppression of that impulse by your spirit. It's out of your control because that is the chemical systems God created us to have in order to protect ourselves from danger. Fight, or flight.
Think about Jesus praying on the Mount of Olives, praying for the Father to take away the cup of His wrath that Jesus knew He had to drink from. He KNEW He had to die, He KNEW He would be resurrected in glory, earlier He had accepted that and told it to His disciples and even through parable His scoffers, but the night He was betrayed, He had a moment of weakness and fear ("the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."), had He not been God come in the flesh, He would have been sinning to do it, but His spirit's resolve overcame His flesh after that moment of weakness.

Sometimes I wonder if coming down and experiencing the human condition first hand as Jesus is what made God compassionate towards us in the first place, knowing from the beginning He would experience our weakness, and our impulses, and why He forgives us, understanding how difficult it is to act against our own bodies.

I just wanted to throw out about sinning when saved in general, from our daily proverb chapter
Proverbs 24:16

The saved make mistakes, they sin, they recognize their sin, and their fall, and they repent, ask for forgiveness and walk in obedience again; they riseth up again.
The unsaved often sin, don't recognize it as sin, and just fall deeper and deeper and deeper.
The proverb says 7 times, but I don't think it's a specific number. I don't think God is the God of second, or seventh chances, but the God of ANOTHER chance as my pastor likes to say.

It is up to you if you want to believe that we have the same nature as we did when we were not saved and being born again is a myth, but I hope, at least, you believe you must overcome sin before you die.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I see everything that is happening with this whole virus thing here in America as a rebuke to the churches here in the States so as to return to the Lord in truth to what His Word truly says. In my experience in talking with many today in the church, most want to justify sin on some level. Surely that is not the narrow way that Jesus talked about.

 

[Jamdoc]

It is up to you if you want to believe that we have the same nature as we did when we were not saved and being born again is a myth, but I hope, at least, you believe you must overcome sin before you die.

My spirit was new, my body was not. My body is falling apart, and my spirit is caged in it for now.

 

[Jamdoc]

I see everything that is happening with this whole virus thing here in America as a rebuke to the churches here in the States so as to return to the Lord in truth to what His Word truly says. In my experience in talking with many today in the church, most want to justify sin on some level. Surely that is not the narrow way that Jesus talked about.

Quarantine and social distancing are actually biblical principles for dealing with disease
Read Leviticus 13. If there's a plague, you declare a person unclean and "shut them up" for 7 days, after which you look at them again, if they're still unclean, 7 more days. They're quarantining sick people outside the congregation, and they don't go to the congregation when sick. They also rent their clothes and shouted "Unclean, unclean" as they made their way out of the camp and they covered their upper lip (to prevent coughing and breathing on people and infecting them). They also burned the clothes of the infected and had habitual washing. This is 3500 year old wisdom that is applicable today. God may have not explained Germ theory to the Israelites but He did tell them what to do about it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The whole concept that one sins in their flesh and yet not in their spirit is gnosticism.
For many believers today tell me they sin in their flesh, but they do not sin in their spirit because Jesus paid for all their future sins. Basically what some of them are saying is that when they sin in the moment, they think that God does not see their sin because they have a belief alone on Jesus.

Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:1,

"...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).​

We are to cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh AND SPIRIT, perfecting holiness in the FEAR of GOD. Surely this is not a favorite verse amongst Eternal Security (OSAS) Proponent, and or the Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationist.

Another thing that is interesting in this verse is that we are to cleanse ourselves from ALL (not some) filthiness of the flesh and spirit. We are to cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit.

As I said before, many in the church today do not believe many verses in their own Bible. They do not accept Kingdom teaching on the seed of the Word being planted in our hearts. They do not understand that if they do not believe a particular verse in the Bible, it is like in the Parable of the Sower where the enemy will take the seed of the Word (i.e. that verse or passage) out of their heart and they will not believe it. So the verse will either:

(a) Not exist for them, and they will ignore it (because they do not like what it says).
(b) It is a mystery to them and believe it is unknowable at this point in Christian's lives.
(c) Try to re-write what the verse plainly says (because they do not like what it says).