Can we eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans? And what about blood in meat?

[pinacled]

And The faithful divide a certain offering while facing west.

 

[pinacled]

It's what God says that matters.

And the faithful know better than to divide the birds

 

[HARK!]

Already posted that. Read the account of Noah. He took unclean animals into the ark and afterward everything was for eating "as the green herbs." So for a period of time all the animals were clean until the Law of Moses. Then of course the law of Moses was replace and all animals are clean.

Would you give me a post number?

 

[Al Touthentop]

Would you give me a post number?

Why don't you just open your bible to Genesis 6-8 and pay attention to the animals?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Would you give me a post number?

I think it wouldn't matter - Noah knew, according to Scripture, what animals were clean and what animals were unclean.
People today don't know. (most people, that is)

 

[HARK!]

Why don't you just open your bible to Genesis 6-8 and pay attention to the animals?

And?

 

[HARK!]

I think it wouldn't matter - Noah knew, according to Scripture, what animals were clean and what animals were unclean.
People today don't know. (most people, that is)

People seemed to know a lot more about everything back then. Maybe it's because not very much time had elapsed since man was in the garden with the Father. Maybe it's because after the flood man's DNA was bottle necked, causing his lifespan to be shortened, along with his attention span; or maybe the brain activity was diminished by attacks on the brain, generation after generation, by trichinae.

Whatever the reason, these are dark times.

 

[Bob S]

Where?

Ex32:
9 ‘I have seen these people,’ the Lord said to Moses, ‘and they are a stiff-necked people. 10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.’

11 But Moses sought the favour of the Lord his God. ‘Lord,’ he said, ‘why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, “It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth”? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: “I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance for ever.”’ 14 Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

God most certainly did change His mind.

 

[HARK!]

God most certainly did change His mind.

I didn't ask when he changed his mind. The question was where did YHWH change the rules before Moshe?

 

[Bob S]

Al wrote:

we have written examples before the law of Moses where he changed the rules.

Hark wrote:

Where?

What I wrote came before the covenant was presented to Israel. It was right after God gave Moses the tablets. At that point God changed the rules. He instead of giving them the ten commandments He was going to annihilate the Israelites. Moses talked Him out of proceeding with that rule.

 

[Dkh587]

You've just dismissed the scripture which shows that all animals were clean after the flood.



But that's exactly what God did. And you can read Paul writing that indeed we are not to be judged by the foods we eat.

God did not say all animals were clean after the flood. The law of Moses came after the flood. Unclean animals still existed, and still exist today.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I've been reading about the food laws. Some christians believes you may eat all meat and some believes you may only eat clean meat.

I don't know what is right. The christians I know eat all meat. Some arguments are that we are not under the law anymore and Peter's vision (but Peters visions was about the gentiles to my opinion).

But in the Old Testament God warns us about eating unclean meat, especially the shellfish and crustaceans where he repeats multiple times that it is an abomination. Now science also says pork, shellfish and crustaceans are full of toxins and bad for your health. So thats makes it more sense to keep the commandment and not eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans anymore.

And what about blood in meat? God has warned us about that a couple times in the Old Testament and also in the New Testament.

So what's right? I don't know it anymore. I am actually more convinced to obey the food laws. But circumstances makes it difficult to obey the food laws. It's not a problem for me to not eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans anymore. The problem is that there are not really shops in my country that sells kosher meat to buy chicken and beef. There is actually only one kosher butcher in my country and the prices are expensive too. My husband would never agree with that. We are not rich. So that's not an option.

Does God mind that I still eat chicken and beef with blood in it, because I have no other choice?

“Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, " AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this-not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:1-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

There is no unclean meat, since christianity. But we must not eat blood because in the blood is the soul of the animal. Yes, God do mind.

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Actually Acts 15 does not refer to meat offered to idols and Gentiles can actually eat meat offered to idols if they have not been told that it was offered as a sacrifice to an idol. From the verses pertaining to meat offered to idols I only see that the Jews are forbidden to eat meat offered to idols.

Acts 15 James declares the Gentiles are to abstain from the pollutions of idols. The word food or meat is not mentioned.


Acts 21 James again declares the Gentiles are to abstain from idol sacrifices. Again the word food or meat is not mentioned.


1 Corinthians 8 Paul tells the Gentiles it is ok to eat meat offered to idols.


1 Corinthians 10 gets a bit tricky. Gentiles can eat any meat if they do not know if it was sacrificed to an idol or not. Paul tells them not to ask about the meat. If someone tells them the meat is sacrificed to an idol they should not eat it for the sake of the one who told them and their conscience.


Revelation 2 Jesus rebukes the Church in Pergamum for allowing the sons of Israel (Jews) to eat meat offered to idols.

 

[BobRyan]

Actually Acts 15 does not refer to meat offered to idols

I had not noticed that. Thanks for pointing that out my friend

and Gentiles can actually eat meat offered to idols if they have not been told that it was offered as a sacrifice to an idol. From the verses pertaining to meat offered to idols I only see that the Jews are forbidden to eat meat offered to idols.

Actually it looks like Jews are specifically the ones that have no problem at all with meat offered to idols.

Jews know the idols are all fake - gentiles were used to viewing them as real gods.

For Jewish Christians "there is one God, the Father," which was always the case their entire lives.
But for those "Accustomed" to idols as those who worship them .. they did not always have the knowledge that "there is one God, the Father,"

1 Cor 8 --
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

The newly converted gentiles were weak on this point for they were accustomed to thinking of meat offered to idols as a form of worship to their pagan gods. Newly converted from paganism they could not understand how it is that Jewish Christians were so willing to engage in eating meat offered to idols as if that was nothing. Their conscience would be easily offended at that point.

8 But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. 9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? 11 For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died. 12 And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

There is the vegetarian issue.

1 Cor 10
23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor. 25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake; 26 for the earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains. 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This is meat sacrificed to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience’ sake;

When the pagan unbeliever invites you to eat and does not tell you the food is offered to idols , then eat it but if they tell you it is offered to idols do not eat because the pagans and the Christians-newly-converted-from-pagans will all have their conscience misinformed thinking that worship of pagan gods is ok for Christians to do.


Christian Jews in Corinth -

Acts 18
After these things Paul departed from Athens and went to Corinth. 2 And he found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to depart from Rome); and he came to them. 3 So, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and worked; for by occupation they were tentmakers. 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

5 When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ.... 7 And he departed from there and entered the house of a certain man named Justus, one who worshiped God, whose house was next door to the synagogue. 8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.

 

[Al Touthentop]

I didn't ask when he changed his mind. The question was where did YHWH change the rules before Moshe?

But you don't want to answer the question yourself by reading the scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

I never said there was no sin. Nor did I say there was no law, just no Old Testament law as a set of written rules. The law that we have is on our hearts and it is between us and God.

NT states that it is unchanged OT and NT.

New Covenant Jer 31:31-33 "Law of God written on the heart"
New Covenant Heb 8:6-13 -- unchanged from Jer 31:31-33 verbatim
Eph 6:2 the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment... still.
Matt 19 list from the Ten commandments ... Rom 13 list from the Ten commandments.. the same.
"What matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

 

[Al Touthentop]

God did not say all animals were clean after the flood.

That's exactly what he said.

Genesis 9
3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.

 

[BobRyan]

That's exactly what he said.

Genesis 9
3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.

Just as with green plants - if you eat poison ivy or any other poison plant -- you die.
So also in Lev 11 God shows what "is food" - and diseased animals are specifically excluded from being food in Lev 11... along with rats, cats, bats etc.

Prior to Genesis 9 -- in Genesis 1 God gives mankind the fruits and nuts of the Trees "as food"

 

[Al Touthentop]

NT states that it is unchanged OT and NT.

New Covenant Jer 31:31-33 "Law of God written on the heart"
New Covenant Heb 8:6-13 -- unchanged from Jer 31:31-33 verbatim
Eph 6:2 the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment... still.
Matt 19 list from the Ten commandments ... Rom 13 list from the Ten commandments.. the same.
"What matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

No, we are not even under the ten commandments as given to Moses. Jesus changed the law and gave new directives. We're not under "thou shalt not murder." Our commandment is 'don't even hate your brother.'

Keeping the sabbath is not part of Christ's law.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Just as with green plants - if you eat poison ivy or any other poison plant -- you die.
So also in Lev 11 God shows what "is food" - and diseased animals are specifically excluded from being food in Lev 11... along with rats, cats, bats etc.

Depends on your definition of 'every living thing.' He meant every living thing. And prior to the flood he had Noah bring in a pair of both 'clean' and 'unclean' animals into the ark. So before the flood, there was a separation. After the flood, all animals were purified which is why he said every living thing was food for Noah.

Prior to Genesis 9 -- in Genesis 1 God gives mankind the fruits and nuts of the Trees "as food"

This is just not accurate. There were clean and unclean animals prior to the flood. They were brought back under the law of Moses and again purified when Christ nailed the old covenant to the cross.