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Yes, it has significance for Catholics; the wine used in communion must be naturally fermented, no additives, no fortification.
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Yes, it has significance for Catholics; the wine used in communion must be naturally fermented, no additives, no fortification.Do I take from the course of this discussion that this question has particular significance to Catholics?
Well ....
Yours are unleavened wafers, correct?
Leavened bread. With many more details, but then I probably don't know all the details on the wafers either. Though MC once shared a video with me about how nuns make them, and I watched it.
Yes, intuitively unleavened made more sense to me. In perhaps a more simplistic sense, that leaven represents sin, and the bread becomes His body.
It's been a while since I read the Orthodox reply. I remember that I was satisfied with it, but now I can't bring too mind what the reason was (sometimes I read more than I can remember apparently, lol).
I am always interested in the answers I hear about Eastern Rite Catholics. Maybe that answers something I think I decided not to post in one of these unity threads - I think EO and CC.
The problem would seem to be that neither is likely to compromise, and the Catholic dogmas, if retained, would excommunicate most EO. I'm not sure just what the Eastern Rite Catholic looks like or believes, but it makes me wonder. Do they depart from any of the dogmas of the Catholic Church? Or is it more a matter of practices only?
Yes, it has significance for Catholics; the wine used in communion must be naturally fermented, no additives, no fortification.
Oh dear. Do I have to invoke eternal torment and hot pokers now?
So is the objection, then, that if cutting the wine with a little bit of water is okay, then water must be okay, so going wholly with water must be okay?
Separate question: Is kosher wine like Mogen David acceptable?
So a belief makes something so? Sounds a bit WoF.water can be used in place of wine if you believe him for it
None of the above; this thread is intended as humour.So is the objection, then, that if cutting the wine with a little bit of water is okay, then water must be okay, so going wholly with water must be okay?
Separate question: Is kosher wine like Mogen David acceptable?
This... as Jesus turned water into wine and Catholics believe he also turns wine into his "real" blood then why God cannot turn water into his "real" blood to me is a non issue. I think it is the seriousness given to the ceremony rather than the elements themselves. God is able to turn water into wine and some believe he turns wine into blood somehow so turning water into blood shouldn't be a stretch for them I would think.water can be used in place of wine if you believe him for it
Cutting?So is the objection, then, that if cutting the wine with a little bit of water is okay, then water must be okay, so going wholly with water must be okay?
Cutting?
"One of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once blood and water came out. He who saw it bore witness, and his witness is true."
Well there is a lot of misconceptions on the West side about definitions and what is defined by the Church. For example the doctrine of purgatory is simply defined as the state of purification after death and before entering into God's presence; and our prayers and penances done in the name if the dead, has an edifying effect. How the purging occurs has not been defined, albeit most theologians agree that fire is involved, due to the allusion of fire found in Scripture.
Yes leaven was used as an example. Not of sin but of growth and life.
Matt 13:33
I also remember the first time I saw leavened bread being used. It was in a Presbyterian Church. It seemed so wrong as I'd also been taught that leaven represented sin. But a nice old Presbyterian man reminded me that it represents the Kingdom, growth and life.
It all depends on what you do with the leaven and whether it is good leaven or bad.
Well, if it's all a joke, I'll back out. I was wondering if this was something that was a known dispute.
Well, if it's all a joke, I'll back out. I was wondering if this was something that was a known dispute.
Ah, thank you, MamaK. Was that the Orthodox reason for using it too then?
I remember being confused when I first read the parable where leaven was mentioned in describing the Kingdom. (Many years ago). I was so very used to thinking of leaven representing sin. I guess that idea is still pretty firmly entrenched.
Thank you.
The example set by Jesus is a lesson in itself; he took the cup and blessed it, it was a cup filled with wine. The example is there in three of the four gospels and in first Corinthians.If God can turn wine into blood why can't he turn water? Does God outright state he can only have wine for His communion, or do we assume such from the story of the last supper?
What about gatorade? Grape of course?
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