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I have seen Universalists making a big fuss about the greek word "aiōnion" and claiming that it does not mean "eternal". Which I believe that it does it is confirmed by the early church fathers and by lexicons and all translations in english. I refuse to believe that all major translations for centuries have all erred on the meaning of "aiōnion" and thus lead Christianity as a whole into false theology.

However I thought it would be fun to make a post highlighting the verses that refute Universalism that do not use the word "aiōnion" :

1. Luke 13:23-28 : "And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out."

^Jesus is asked a direct question, one that we would expect would affirm Universalism if Jesus taught it considering someone is asking Jesus if only a few people will be saved. If Jesus taught Universalism we would have expected him to respond by saying that all people will be saved and not just a few.

However, Jesus did not say this because he did not teach Universalism. Jesus said that many will seek to enter through the narrow door unto life eternal and will not be able to. They will fail to enter.

Well if they fail to enter through the narrow door and Jesus says that they will not be able to, which completely rules out the idea of them eventually going through it. But if they fail to enter through the narrow door (salvation) where will they be? The lake of fire is the only other place for the unsaved to go and they will be there for eternity and never get into heaven because Jesus says that they “will not be able ” to enter through the narrow door and receive eternal life.

Given the question that prompts it, Jesus’ answer cannot be interpreted to mean anything other than that many will not be saved. There is nothing conditional about Jesus’ answer. Jesus does not say, “If someone does this then he will be damned” or “Anyone who does this will be damned.” He says that there are many who will fail to enter — the context is salvation.

Verses 25-28 solidify Jesus' response in verse 24. Once the head of the house has risen and shuts the door those outside will being banging on the door to get in the kingdom but will not be allowed but will be told to depart and will be cast into the lake of fire. If post mortem salvation is true like Universalists propose then God should have let them in because they wanted to but they were not allowed and will never be allowed because Jesus says they will not be allowed in. This door shuts at death because all judgments that are given to us in the bible show that we will be judged and sent to heaven or hell based on the choices we make in this life alone (Romans 2:6-10 ; 2 Cor. 5:10 ; John 5:28-29 ; 1 Cor. 6:9-10 ; Matthew 16:27 etc.) and not on some choice we make after death for nothing after death matters or has any effect only what we do in this life matters, that is the deciding factor to salvation.



2. Philippians 3:17-20 “Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ”

^Those who walk not according to Christ but follow after their sinful desires they are enemies of the cross of Christ! Paul says that their end is destruction. If their end is destruction than it cannot be salvation for the end means their final state. If the enemies of Christ are going to be saved like Universalism says then their end is not destruction but salvation. We cannot force Universalism into this passage without calling Paul a liar and mangling his words.

Compare the fates of the two groups presented by Paul. The first groups are those that are the enemies of the cross of Christ and their end is destruction. When we keep reading to verse 20 we see the contrast when Paul declares “But our citizenship is in heaven”. The second group, the believers will be in heaven while the other group, that is the enemies of the cross of Christ, will be eternally damned.

Enemies of the Cross of Christ = end is destruction

Believers = citizenship is in heaven


3. Matthew 7:21-23 : "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”

^Jesus can't be any clearer that there will be many who do not enter the kingdom of God they will be told to by Jesus to depart from him and into the lake of fire they go. Now the Universalist will just throw a post mortem salvation card and say that they will get another chance but that is all speculation and not taught by Jesus. Jesus rejected them because of what they did on earth that is evident because he says they were "workers of lawlessness" and it makes no sense for Jesus to say that many will not enter the kingdom of God only for Universalists to say that isn't true those who are told that will eventually enter the kingdom. Jesus doesn't use the word eventually but instead says that they will not. Those who fail to do the will of God on earth will never enter in the blessedness of heaven.


4. John 8:21,24 : "So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come…I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

^Jesus here explicitly denies Universalism by telling unbelievers that unless they believe in him they will die in their sin and if they die in their sins they cannot go where he is going which is to the Father in heaven (John 7:33 ; 16:27-28 ; 17:11). If you die in your sins you will not go to heaven.

We know that this place that unbelievers are being told that they cannot go is not an earthly one because Jesus says that they cannot go to this place if they die (physically) in their sins that is without being forgiven by Jesus Christ. They would face the penalty or wages of their sins which is eternal death (Rom. 6:23), eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.

Jesus does not say “if you die in your sins you will eventually go to heaven”. Jesus says explicitly that if these unbelieving Jews die in their sin that they cannot go to heaven. Just like John 3:36 affirms they will not see eternal life! This is total exclusion. Once physical death has struck the opportunity to accept salvation is gone (Luke 16:19-31).

John 8:21 is consistent with the rest of scripture which is that there is no repentance after death. If there was then this statement from Jesus makes no sense. For what would it matter if you die in your sins, you can just repent after you die and you can waltz into heaven after being in Hell (possibly) for a little while.That obviously is not what Jesus is communicating Jesus is making it clear that if you die in your sins that is unforgiven you cannot enter the blessedness of heaven. Jesus says that whoever denies me before man, I will deny before my father who is in heaven.

5. Matthew 26:24 : "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

^Why would it have been better for Judas to have never been born? It would have been better for Judas to have never been born because he wouldn't have betrayed Jesus and as a result suffer eternity in the lake of fire. But according to Universalism it was better for Judas to have been born and have gone through whatever sufferings, temporal punishment or trauma because no matter what Judas will ultimately be saved. This makes no sense, the universalist makes no sense of Jesus’ words here.

Some have objected and make it seem that Jesus is just saying this about the sufferings in this present life but still wouldn’t it be better that he had been born because he will be in heaven in eternal bliss for all eternity (Rev. 21:4) if Universalism is true. No matter what suffering and pain and humiliation that Judas went through in this life it is still better that he was born because according to universalist doctrine Judas will be in heaven with God.

Even Judas suffering in Hell for a temporary amount of time is still better that he was born because he will be allowed into heaven according to Universalists. So this statement for our Lord is very scary and serves as a warning to all those who reject Christ.

6. John 3:36 : "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

^The Universalist is quick to respond by saying that they will not see life as long as they don’t believe that it is true you can have everlasting life if you turn to Christ and follow him but they don’t think there is an end to that opportunity. But scripture makes it clear that there is and that is at the end of one's life. Once you have died your fate is sealed you cannot repent now and accept Christ. This is evident based on a multitude of passages that speak about judgment being based solely on what we did in this life alone (Matthew 25:31-46 ; Romans 2:6-10 ; John 5:28-29 etc.) and not on some choice that we make after death. Jesus never tells us that there is another chance after death. As a matter of fact in Luke 13:23-28 Jesus makes it clear that once the head of the house has gotten up and closed the door you will not be allowed in which means that there will be those who are eternally separated from God and never allowed in. They are banging at the door to get in but aren’t allowed and this ties in with what Jesus responded to in verse 23-24 which is will only a few be saved. Jesus responded by saying “that many will seek to enter but will not be able” Many will not be able to enter heaven. The denial is final.

Lastly, in Luke 16:19-31 the Rich Man in hades is told that he cannot cross over to paradise confirming that at death our fates are sealed for eternity and that is consistent with the rest of scripture which testifies that it is this life that determines our eternal abode.

"And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’"

This passage is nonsensical if post mortem salvation is true, what Jesus should have said is "You can cross over once you repent" but he doesn't and also we see the Rich Man once accepting this start pleasing with Abraham to send someone to warn his brothers to repent so that they do not come to this place of torment clearly showing that he is doomed. This text is not identified as a parable. But even if its parabolic in nature, treating it as an unreliable source ignores the one who is giving the account. Should we believe that Christ would engage speculative imagery on such a serious matter?

God Bless.
 

bling

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The real problem I see is with the person, who repeatedly refuses to humbly accept God's charity as pure charity, since they desire the perceived pleasures of sin over God's Love to the point they would never accept God's Love/charity of their own free will given other likely alternatives. If they are refusing God's Love of their own free will, they would not be happy in heaven where there is only Godly type Love.
 
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Der Alte

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I have done my own study of the word “αιωνιος/aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 5 times in the N.T. [2%]
“aionios” is correctly translated “eternal” 42 times in the N.T.[52%]
“aionios” is correctly translated “everlasting” 25 times in the N.T.[34.7%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times, [38.8% of total] Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
In twenty four [24] of the following 26 verses “αιων/aion//αιωνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or descriptive phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people mistakenly claim that “αιων/aion//αιωνιος/aionios never means eternity/eternal” because a few times they refer to things which are not eternal e.g. “world.”
However, neither word is ever defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period less than eternal, as in the following NT verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not/could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten verses Jesus defines/describes “aionios” as “eternal.” Luke 1:33, John 6:58, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 3:36, John 4:14, John 6:27, John 8:51
[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei Vb.] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias, Nn.] there shall be no end.[telos]​
In this verse the reign/basileusei, the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition means eternal, no end.
[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “live aionios” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite age, a finite period life cuding vovally opposing the government in power is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand”, and “never perish.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite age,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’/never perish” “Aionios life” by definition means “eternal life.”
[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.​
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice. By definition “aionion life” means eternal or everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, [Amen, Amen] I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite age,” by definition it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.​
In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.
[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.​
In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.
 
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I have done my own study of the word “αιωνιος/aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 5 times in the N.T. [2%]
“aionios” is correctly translated “eternal” 42 times in the N.T.[52%]
“aionios” is correctly translated “everlasting” 25 times in the N.T.[34.7%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times, [38.8% of total] Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
In twenty four [24] of the following 26 verses “αιων/aion//αιωνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or descriptive phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people mistakenly claim that “αιων/aion//αιωνιος/aionios never means eternity/eternal” because a few times they refer to things which are not eternal e.g. “world.”
However, neither word is ever defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period less than eternal, as in the following NT verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not/could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten verses Jesus defines/describes “aionios” as “eternal.” Luke 1:33, John 6:58, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 3:36, John 4:14, John 6:27, John 8:51

[1] Luke 1:33

(33) And he shall reign [basileusei Vb.] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias, Nn.] there shall be no end.[telos]
In this verse the reign/basileusei, the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition means eternal, no end.
[2] John 6:58

(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “live aionios” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite age, a finite period life cuding vovally opposing the government in power is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[3] John 10:28

(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand”, and “never perish.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite age,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’/never perish” “Aionios life” by definition means “eternal life.”
[4]John 3:15

(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.

[5] John 3:16

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice. By definition “aionion life” means eternal or everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24

(24) Verily, verily, [Amen, Amen] I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite age,” by definition it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.
In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.
[9]John 6:27

(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51

(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.
Thank you Der Alte. I was reviewing the list you provided me and I think that Universalists will have a hard time with John 6 as a whole. I have heard Universalists making claims that "eternal life" doesn't actually mean unending life in heaven because of John 17:3

"And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

But eternal life is not merely living forever but also about the quality of life and what comes along with it and this verse doesn't affect the meaning provided by Jesus in John 6.

John 6 confirms that whenever Jesus speaks of eternal life he means unending living in the blessedness of heaven in the presence of God and all of the many other perks that God will bestow upon his elect. Jesus means eternal (never ending) not temporary or just some age long life. Jesus doesn’t use aionion that way.

John 6:50 says that those who eat of this bread will not die and that confirms Jesus’ words in verse 51 that those who eat this bread will live forever ( eis ton aiōnia) which is correctly translated. As we just saw verse 50 Jesus says that they will never die if you don’t die that means you live forever.

In verse 51 Jesus says that “the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh” so bread = flesh and in verse 54 Jesus says whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life ( aiōnion life) This confirms that Eternal life is never dying, living forever. Just like how all modern translations render it. Eternal life is solely for the believer or the one who eats of the bread of life.

Obviously eternal life is much more than mere duration it is the quality that begins on earth or at the moment one is baptized into the body of Christ but eternal life involves being with Christ in the presence of God being incorruptible enjoying no more crying or pain or death but everlasting happiness which those who are damned will not experience (Revelation 21:1-8.) Eternal life is Jesus himself (1 John 5:11-12). Yes eternal life is also knowing God being in a relationship with him via faith.


1 John 5:11-12 : "And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life."

If believers are united to Christ and thus have eternal life because this life is in Jesus. Do Universalists think that Jesus has merely temporal or age long life? Or is he God and therefore he is uncreated and would be eternal life? The believer would have the same eternal life as Christ which by his nature can't be temporal.As God, Jesus Christ has always existed. There never was a time when He did not exist. His life is eternal.

God Bless
 
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fli

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Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the Lord, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord. 24 "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." NKJV


Those corpses in verse 24 above disprove universal salvation. Those dead bodies in the fire are to be viewed by all flesh on the new earth every time the people go to worship God in the new Jerusalem. According to verse 22 the people who go to worship last as long as the new heavens and new earth. Therefore, as long as the new earth will last there will be dead bodies in the fire for the people to see.


Who do the dead bodies in verse 24 belong to?


1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. NKJV


God uses the bodies of the saints as a seed to make their spiritual bodies. Therefore, the dead bodies in the fire cannot be the bodies of the saints.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. NKJV


The saints were part of the first resurrection. The second resurrection is from the white throne judgment. Every person who ever lived, except the saints, is standing in front of Jesus at the white throne. The sheep's bodies were resurrected to live on the new earth. They are the people who view the dead bodies in the fire as they go to worship God. Therefore the dead bodies in verse Isaiah 66: 24 cannot be the bodies of the sheep. So whose bodies are seen in the fire in verse 24?


Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. NKJV


The goats were not found in the book of life and received the second death in the lake of fire. That matches the verse in Isaiah 66: 24. The dead bodies in verse 24 are found in fire and the lake of fire is the second death.
 
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fli

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Revelation 21:22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. NKJV

How can there be a new moon celebration in the new world without a moon? Without a sun for the earth's spin to create a 24 hour day and night how will there be a 7-day week to have sabbath? We do not have enough information to explain the ”how”. There is enough information to see the need for the 7-day week.


Mark 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. NKJV


There are flesh and blood humans that need time to rest and restore the body from their work. So there has to be a day long enough for work, relaxation and sleep. God created the sabbath for man to have a day of rest from his work. Will God create a 7-day week for the new earth? We do not know. Because of flesh and blood needs there will be a week of days suitable for man to recover from his work.


The above does not mean there will be new moon celebrations. The new moon celebrations were celebrations of the new month. Will there be months on the new earth?


Revelation 22:2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. NKJV


The tree(s) of life bore 12 kinds of fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The new month celebration corresponds to new or fresh fruit for the nations on the new earth.
 
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Nicholas Vara

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This might help, the Koine Greek word for eternal is "aidios".

Strongs Concordance

"Aionion" is the adjective form of aion or age. It even appears at the end of the Nicene Creed as in the age or world to come. An adjective form of a word like age would be aged or age during or age enduring. This is the greek understanding though it becomes more muddled over time in the latin.

Though language changes over time in the Septuagint translation of the book of Jonah it says that he (Jonah) experienced Aionion in hades but in terms of days we have three. It certainly can convey an intensity of experience. If you look at Romans 16:25-27 the word is used to describe ages past but also God himself... because that's how adjectives work. It's not a unit of measurement.

Here in the NIV translation

Romans 16:25-27

New International Version

//25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages (AIONIOS) past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal (AIONIOS) God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from[a] faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.//

Here it is used to describe both times that have come and gone and God who we know is eternal. The simplest sentence in English that I have come across that demonstrates this principal is as follows "The tall man stands next to the tall building" Tall is an adjective and not a noun, it's not a unit of measurement. The way both Universalist and Traditionalist on the internet are doing their Greek would render the man and the building as the same height.

I am additionally linking a channel that goes over the use of Aion in the late antiquity context of the New Testament.

Personally, the linguistic argument merely demonstrates that eternal hell is not forced on the text. A person could certainly choose to interpret it that way if they wanted to. But I think that would be very bad Christology. It is ultimately the person of Christ that makes the position that God forsakes anyone forever untenable.

Total Victory of Christ Aionion Playlist
 
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TahitiRun

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I have seen Universalists making a big fuss about the greek word "aiōnion" and claiming that it does not mean "eternal".
I think the Greek term "αιωνιον" does mean eternal when describing a particular "age" associated therewith.

However, there are "ages" (examples found in Eph 2:7) that are perhaps better thought of as "zones", if you will, that are plural in number. And these "zones" can be used and testified to us when the Lord so chooses.

So, although a particular age is considered eternal, it's use within it's "own times (pl)" are not. 1Ti 2:6 being an example, here.

1Ti 2:6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony to be borne in its own times,

Anyway, an interesting topic.
 
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Josheb

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Can Universalism be defeated without using the word aionion?
Sure.

Death is thrown into the fiery lake and destroyed. Whether take literally or figuratively, the fact is death is destroyed. It's the last enemy defeated. It's the death of death. If death isn't dead then there's still death in heaven (for all eternity) and if death is dead then everything is not reconciled. Can't be had both ways. There are a couple of different Greek words employed for "destroy" in the NT. One of them means the cessation of existence. The other means rot or decay. The word "death" means death and although there are a handful of different kinds of death they all mean the cessation of something relevant to their context (physical death, dead in sin, dead in Christ, etc.). In the end death is dead. The universalist or apokatastasist says this is evidence of all things being reconciled to God but if death is dead then so too is everything else thrown in the fiery lake.

Btw, I would argue it is universalism that cannot be made without an appeal to aionion.
 
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TahitiRun

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Sure.

Death is thrown into the fiery lake and destroyed.
And that is what Paul himself awaited anxiously for:

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing; for to will is present with me, but how to do that which is good I find not.

And Paul finds his delivery and victory in and through the Christ, stated here:

Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.
1Co 15:27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

An amazing proclamation of God's grace. Not only for Paul, but rather for "all things" being made subject to Christ, that God may be all in all. Even death itself is subjected to Christ by being "abolished". Those are beautiful words.
 
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Josheb

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And that is what Paul himself awaited anxiously for:

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing; for to will is present with me, but how to do that which is good I find not.

And Paul finds his delivery and victory in and through the Christ, stated here:

Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.
1Co 15:27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.
What is the topic of this op?
An amazing proclamation of God's grace. Not only for Paul, but rather for "all things" being made subject to Christ, that God may be all in all. Even death itself is subjected to Christ by being "abolished". Those are beautiful words.
All things are made subject to Christ. Some in destruction and some in salvation. It is a huge mistake to think Calvary is singularly or solely about salvation (or any other singular purpose). The exact same cross that saves also condemns and God is glorified as a just God when He metes out the just recompense for unrepentant sin as He is glorified as a gracious God when He choses to save some.


This op asks one question: Can universalism be refuted without using the word "aionion"? and the answer to that question is an unqualified, "Yes!" Death is not reconciled to God. It is destroyed. Those would try to explain that away or otherwise obfuscate what is plainly stated create contradictions because either God's word does not mean what is explicitly states and God's eternal kingdom still contains death (fatal to universalism) or God's word means exactly what it explicitly states and death and everything else thrown into the fiery lake is actually, literally, eternally destroyed to the point death and everything else thrown into the fiery lake ceases to exist (fatal to universalism). They (plural) are NOT reconciled; they are destroyed. The same lake has the same effect on everything tossed in: lethally destructive subjection to Christ.


Did not use the word "aionion" once.
 
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Nicholas Vara

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Difficult to reconcile with annihilation and infernalism. Could have used the word "Homologeo" which means confession. Instead he uses the word "exomologeō", the same word used in the septuagint for singing in the Pslams, it means a joyful or glad confession.

I would love to talk about the "lake of fire" and what that actually means if anyone wants to have that conversation.
 
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TahitiRun

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What is the topic of this op?
I have no idea. I read the first word "Can", pulled up my landing gear, and blew past the rest. I fly the C-17 (Globemaster III). It's tough to land it on a short runway. Not saying it can't be done, it can. Just don't want to do it.
 
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Nicholas Vara

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I would love to hear you talk about it. Let's hear it!
It has occurred to me that we are hijacking this thread. The OP is about aionios and I want to respect that. I think an indepth conversation not debate about "the lake of fire" deserves its own thread anyway. But where I come down on this is where Origen, Gregory of Nyssa and many others who were reading the apocalypse in the east in their greek mother tounge thought about the "pool of fire and sulfer" .

(limne was originally translated into English and Latin as a pool but there is an 800 year old English tradition of translating it as lake, it can mean lake but ancient writers used a different word when referencing a lake specifically most of the time. Point being that lake isnt forced here, it ranges from a puddle to a marsh in other writings).

Eastern readers thought it was obviously a refiners pot where. But instead of impurities in the gold things like like sin, death and the devil were refined out of a person similar to 1 Corinthians 3.

Thos entire thread is about aionian, I will leave it to others to determine rather the phrase, "inside or unto the age of ages" can truthfully mean "forever and ever" but the word in our English tradition for torture just means to interigate to get at the truth. In classical greek it was the word básanos specifically was used for testing the purity of gold and by late antiquity was even used in the New Testament to describe waves testing a ship at sea. Waves don't torment ships. Refiners don't torment gold.

All this to say that the traditional 800 year tradition which went from Latin to English has in many ways been undermined by our understanding of late antiquity greek. Unfortunately entire denominations are dependent on some of these translation mishaps.

I would ask the infernalist that if you don't think it's the word picture of a refiners pot and you think it's for Jesus to torture people in, first of all, you've got terrible christology. Secondly, what is the sulfer for in this version of events? The element sulfer makes it hurt more? Is it the smell? Same question to the annihilationist, does the sulfer make anyone more dead? If you think it's literally thing somewhere how are things like death put into it?

It seems that any ancient greek speaking person would have understood what this word picture meant and we have surviving documented cases of just that.

1000020590.jpg
 
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It has occurred to me that we are hijacking this thread. The OP is about aionios and I want to respect that.
I think you're just fine. Think of it like performing a rescue rather than a hijack. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

To keep it on topic, here are some questions regarding the term αιωνιον :

What is the corresponding Hebrew term for αιωνιον, and does it matter?

Should αιωνιον be understood from a Greek perspective or that of the Hebrew mindset?

Did Jesus, or for that matter John, Paul, James, Peter, etc., understand and use αιωνιον from a Greek (Hellenistic) perspective?

What influence did Hellenism, it's culture and beliefs (pagan or otherwise) have on early Church doctrine/dogma?

Why did the NT writers quote from the Septuagint (LXX) more frequently than the Hebrew text we use today?

Should the LXX have any influence on how we understand the OT scriptures?
 
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Nicholas Vara

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I think you're just fine. Think of it like performing a rescue rather than a hijack. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

To keep it on topic, here are some questions regarding the term αιωνιον :

What is the corresponding Hebrew term for αιωνιον, and does it matter?

Should αιωνιον be understood from a Greek perspective or that of the Hebrew mindset?

Did Jesus, or for that matter John, Paul, James, Peter, etc., understand and use αιωνιον from a Greek (Hellenistic) perspective?

What influence did Hellenism, it's culture and beliefs (pagan or otherwise) have on early Church doctrine/dogma?

Why did the NT writers quote from the Septuagint (LXX) more frequently than the Hebrew text we use today?

Should the LXX have any influence on how we understand the OT scriptures?
Good Morning or evening as the case maybe.

My understanding is that the Aramaic / Hebrew equivalent to aion is olam whose meaning would be determined by the context and which period in history it appears. As it predates the concept of eternity it vaguely could mean from horizon to horizon, far out either on the actual landscape or way into the future or past. Whereas aionian, the adjective form of aion is different. The way the Hebrew uses olam and the Septuagint uses aionan to describe Jonah's ordeal shows that both words could hold the idea of the intensity of the experience, perhaps God's perfect amount. Though the experience only lasted three days. I heard one linguist hypothesis that both words by late antiquity could denote the maximum amount of a given thing inside the system being talked about.

As far as the writers of the New Testament they quote the Septuagint directly, the Hebrew cannon was more fluid and still a matter of debate at that time. In Jesus' day there were several competing versions of Jeremiah for example. I personally do think that you take Jesus as a man in time and space like any other historical figure and look at his teachings through a Hellenized Second Temple Jewish lense. Others disagree.

While I affirm the inspiration of scripture, I do not place it in the Godhead or on equal footing with Jesus. Once a person is brought to Christ, every verse of scripture must bend the knee to him and not vice versa. For me, God can speak though anyway God chooses and I think the Septuagint gives us better insight into what Jesus and his contemporaries meant when they made certain statements. But I do not believe that either the Masoretic text or the Septuagint are the word of God. I give that nomenclature specifically to Jesus alone.

I think the Septuagint gives us enormous insight into what Jewish scholars thought the Hebrew Bible meant and is extraordinarily useful. The Hebrew Bible did not even have vowels, when vowels were added in the 8th Century the meaning of a lot of phrases, even surprisingly popular ones changes a great deal from how they were translated in the Septuagint in the second century BCE. This is enough of a reason to own one and at least read it alongside your preferred bible translation.
 
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TahitiRun

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Good Morning or evening as the case maybe.

My understanding is that the Aramaic / Hebrew equivalent to aion is olam whose meaning would be determined by the context and which period in history it appears. As it predates the concept of eternity it vaguely could mean from horizon to horizon, far out either on the actual landscape or way into the future or past. Whereas aionian, the adjective form of aion is different. The way the Hebrew uses olam and the Septuagint uses aionan to describe Jonah's ordeal shows that both words could hold the idea of the intensity of the experience, perhaps God's perfect amount. Though the experience only lasted three days. I heard one linguist hypothesis that both words by late antiquity could denote the maximum amount of a given thing inside the system being talked about.

As far as the writers of the New Testament they quote the Septuagint directly, the Hebrew cannon was more fluid and still a matter of debate at that time. In Jesus' day there were several competing versions of Jeremiah for example. I personally do think that you take Jesus as a man in time and space like any other historical figure and look at his teachings through a Hellenized Second Temple Jewish lense. Others disagree.

While I affirm the inspiration of scripture, I do not place it in the Godhead or on equal footing with Jesus. Once a person is brought to Christ, every verse of scripture must bend the knee to him and not vice versa. For me, God can speak though anyway God chooses and I think the Septuagint gives us better insight into what Jesus and his contemporaries meant when they made certain statements. But I do not believe that either the Masoretic text or the Septuagint are the word of God. I give that nomenclature specifically to Jesus alone.

I think the Septuagint gives us enormous insight into what Jewish scholars thought the Hebrew Bible meant and is extraordinarily useful. The Hebrew Bible did not even have vowels, when vowels were added in the 8th Century the meaning of a lot of phrases, even surprisingly popular ones changes a great deal from how they were translated in the Septuagint in the second century BCE. This is enough of a reason to own one and at least read it alongside your preferred bible translation.
I like your style, and agree with your comments, though personally I understand and interpret the Greek NT using the Hebrew mindset. The Hellenist's caused nothing but grief for the Hebrews (Act 6:1) and were also found to be antagonistic towards Paul and Barnabas (Act 9:29). Consequently, I'm reluctant to see things from their perspective.

Though I might not agree with how others use the term "universalism", I personally believe in the "universal" destruction of the "flesh" (the natural, carnal and old man crucified with Christ) that results in the "universal" saving of soul according to the spirit.

1Co 5:5 being a good example that Paul sets forth for consideration.

I'm not sure if this marks me as a universalist or not.

What exactly do you believe is cast into the lake of fire, taking Gen 2:7, Col 1:16-17 (Greek text) and Act 17:28-29 into account?
 
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Good Morning,

I like your thinking on this subject as well. You asked me what I think is being cast into the lake of fire. As John of Patmos tells us, "everyone whose name is not written in the book of life". These are rational beings or human beings. As others have said I think its getting the lead out of the gold and I think that there will be a lot of people in this situation who have perhaps said "sinners prayers" but never died to themselves in this life. We can do the hard work now or we can make it harder on ourselves later but we all must die to ourselves. And it goes without saying that I don't think this is done through actual fire. I once listened to a Sarah Coakley lecture where she said Christian discipleship is practicing for one's death. Some people will be well practiced in letting go and others it will probably feel like hell once they are stripped bare and can no longer lie to themselves that they are somehow in control. However painful this experience whether it happens to me in this life or the next, going through a crucible is meant for the good of the creature. To restore us to our original goodness in the beginning. I hope we will all joyously hymn to God in the great age of ages. Eventually. God is love and those who do not love do not know God. Love is self giving and co suffering. I think its what the plot of the entire story is about. So when I look at anything I begin with Christ and his love. If that is the center I have a long way to go. Hopefully the point is that we are moving towards the center (joy) not that we have arrived.

1 John 4:7-8
Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 25:40-45
 
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TahitiRun

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αιωνιονAs John of Patmos tells us, "everyone whose name is not written in the book of life". These are rational beings or human beings.
I have some further follow up questions:

What do you believe a human being is, or consists of, and where do such human beings exist (ie: have their being)?

Considering Gen 2:7: Is it possible that the compound nature of soul (ie: "flesh" and "spirit", if you will) describes the "names" metaphorically (either not written or written) in the book of life? Is it possible that "flesh and spirit" represent goat and sheep, wicked and righteous, workers of iniquity vs. workers of righteousness etc., in the parables/texts that you've cited at the end of your post?

How do you understand the universal prepositional phrases used by Paul in Act 17:28 and Col 1:16-17, found here, for example:

Act 17:28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being, as certain even of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Col 1:16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things have been created through him, and unto him,
Col 1:17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.

Where was humanity when Christ was crucified and died? How do you understand Rom 6:8?

To keep the OP on topic: Can the "universal" salvation of the body (sans flesh) + breath of life (together as soul) be established without using "αιωνιον".

I believe it can.
 
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