Can this disprove christianity?

[Morehumble]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

Those are interesting and relevant questions, but you do realize that this is the Exploring Christianity section rather than one for "defending" the ideas of the Christian faith, right?

Regardless, welcome to CF just the same!

 

[Albion]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

Two answers come to mind immediately.

First, doing good is not the be-all and end-all of the Christian religion.

And second, all religions have devout members, lukewarm members, and merely nominal members.

It's a mistake to characterize anonymous Christians whose behavior you disapprove of as being typical of members of the Christian faith.

 

[HTacianas]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

There are some out there who could be described as passive as you describe. But no, what you've said doesn't disprove Christianity. But it does knock a few dents in some forms of protestantism. There is an Orthodox saying that goes something like "you might get to heaven on your own but if you want to be sure you should join the Church".

 

[ViaCrucis]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

I think the premise is based upon your narrow experiences with Christians.

Most Christians aren't "sitting there and waiting for Jesus". In fact our Scriptures directly teach against doing this, and Christian moral teaching for the last two thousand years has been to be pro-active in helping the poor, the hungry, and the needy.

The fact that many Christians today are at odds with historic Christian teaching isn't evidence against Christianity. It is evidence of something amiss and deeply wrong about the way Christianity is often being taught and practiced today, but not against Christianity itself. This is far closer to an example of G.K. Chesterton's statement that "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried."

At the end of the day Christianity still says, as Matthew 25 does, that how we treat other people--especially the "least of these"--is how we shall be judged by Christ in the end. And St. John in his first epistle still says that if anyone claims they love God but hates their brother such a person is a liar. Because it is impossible to say you love God and hate your fellow human being made in God's image. Loving our neighbor is how we love God.

In the Lutheran tradition--and I am Lutheran--it is made expressly clear that a good work that is done "for God", but does not in anyway benefit our neighbor, can't be called a "good work" at all. Because God doesn't need our good works, our neighbor does. Our neighbor is the one who is hungry, thirsty, naked, alone, imprisoned, and sick.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[hedrick]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

That’s not how Christians actually live. They are generally engaged in service of their neighbors. I admit that some Christian beliefs sound like what you’ve said, but I don’t think that’s how they really act.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

When you are born again, the moment you become Christian, you whole heartedly believe that God created you out of love, and took the wrath for your sins and died for your sins, so you can live li Heaven in eternally. How could you after this just sit on bed? It's like when a woman is proposed by a man she loves, she goes out and tells everyone, Christians are exactly like that. No bride ever sits on bed until her wedding. I know many who claim to be Christians do nothing, but there are many who think they are Christians and there are not. Also, as we get closet to Jesus' return, more apostasy and luke-warmness will increase.

What separates real Christians from fake ones is what they do when things go awfully bad, when they are persecuted for their faith, yet they keep it even when they are tortured, because once you get taste of Jesus you just can't deny Him. I am sorry you had an experience like this, but there are a lot of fake Christians, but Jesus said this has to happen too.

 

[Rachel20]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

So, a person who does 1000 good things but doesn't believe in Christ, vs a person who does 0 but does believe? For me, it's a question of which one did the Father's will. And scripture is clear what that is (John 3:16)

 

[Norbert L]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

That's one very small box for a comprehensive guide to all things Christianity.

The scripture that comes to mind is James 2:18 "Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”" NLT

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

Yeah me thinks you got a strange Norwegian stereotype going on in your mind. I actually believe this sort of thing about atheists, I have never known atheists to be great builders of charitable institutions like Christians frequently are. If they are charitable they might give 3 to 5% of their income to various secular charities, but it seems pretty rare for them to do something like start an orphanage, compared to various Christian religious groups, orders, evangelists etc.

 

[Dave G.]

Don't look and think you digested a book by it's cover. Because many Christians can get more done from their prayer closet ( or as I say of myself, my red chair) in prayer than someone not anointed with the power of the Holy Spirit. And for that matter donations and tithes that you know nothing of.. No missionary outreach was ever started or supported by the lost in Christ, only the saved do that work. Has any non believer by prayer to Jesus Christ seen someone come out of a coma that doctors said the person never would ? Answered the call of God to speak to someone about the gospel or simply go to the hospital chapel to pray and not even told why but obeyed that call even with nobody in the room? Put a prayer in the register and leave ? Simple things with a huge outcome that a lost person on the wide road to hell would consider to have done nothing at all by their standard.

God's standard is not yours. We are called to worship, to obey, to speak the gospel. And we sometimes help society in various possibly unconventional ways. It's like Gideon's incredible shrinking army in the book of Judges chapter 6 and 7. Because God is glorified in His strength not ours. We accomplish more by doing less but doing so in the power of God. And then God does a mighty work the lost don't even recognize, they just think men won a battle lol. If done by our own might we fail at high energy and output risk. And you can do great works using multitudes of people not in Christ and it's value is as filthy rags in God's economy. We are to respect Him, Honor Him, Obey Him regardless what that looks like to you or even to ourselves. And no you can't read a book by it's cover.

Accepting Jesus Christ as your savoir and receiving the Holy Spirit changes every perspective of life, be that simply or a large change at first but huge in the end, and the receivers value system too.

 

[Morehumble]

Yeah me thinks you got a strange Norwegian stereotype going on in your mind. I actually believe this sort of thing about atheists, I have never known atheists to be great builders of charitable institutions like Christians frequently are. If they are charitable they might give 3 to 5% of their income to various secular charities, but it seems pretty rare for them to do something like start an orphanage, compared to various Christian religious groups, orders, evangelists etc.

Yes, but my point was that let`s say you do more than christians do in terms of good actions for others because of their beliefs, they sit and wait for jesus to come and save them, but let`s say you in the same amount of time have done more than them and actually are changing the world a little, wouldn`t that prove that their beleif hinders them a little?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Yes, but my point was that let`s say you do more than christians do in terms of good actions for others because of their beliefs, they sit and wait for jesus to come and save them, but let`s say you in the same amount of time have done more than them and actually are changing the world a little, wouldn`t that prove that their beleif hinders them a little?

I don't know of anybody just waiting around... I think people tend to wish for a happy ending, and Jesus return or going to heaven is the Christian version of that.


I think however what you are trying to get at is called Locus of Control in psychology. Yeah some Christians might have low locus of control compared to some atheists, but high locus of control can have it's problems too. A great source of depression is believing you can control everything in your life, and having circumstances proving your wrong. That sad fact of life is why certain areas of philosophy like Stoicism came into existence.

Locus of control - Wikipedia

 

[Albion]

So, a person who does 1000 good things but doesn't believe in Christ, vs a person who does 0 but does believe? For me, it's a question of which one did the Father's will. And scripture is clear what that is (John 3:16)

Er, what?

"16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life."
(John 3:16)

 

[BobRyan]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

It disproves the claim to Christianity being made by those who claim the name - but do not walk the walk of Christ in this world. Judas did that - and yet did not "disprove" Christianity

 

[childeye 2]

Let`s you do more good for people than christians do by just sitting there and waiting for jesus, have you then disproven their belief? Yes, let`s say youre just open-minded about god and jesus or an atheist even, but you do more than christians do in terms of good for others, is their belief flawed then since it makes them more passive?

The Christ is the True Image of God sent by God so as to trust in and be saved. According to the Gospel, the Christ allowed his self to be scorned, mocked, beaten, scourged and nailed to a cross to suffer a torturous death and yet prayed for forgiveness for those who crucified him. I personally don't see how the belief that this is God's Eternal Love on display is flawed.

 

[Rachel20]

Er, what?

"16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life."
(John 3:16)

Yes, I'm contrasting the unbeliever who does many good works with the believer who has done none, but has believed on Christ. I'm basically asking which of these have done the will of God?

 

[Albion]

Yes, I'm contrasting the unbeliever who does many good works with the believer who has done none, but has believed on Christ. I'm basically asking which of these have done the will of God?

But as evidence, you cited a Bible verse that said the opposite of the point you wanted to make.

That's what I was referring to.

 

[Blade]

Not how it works. I don't any believer that is just sitting waiting for Jesus. It does show you never searched on this at all. I know ministries that bring truck loads of needs when storms, earthquakes, floods, fires you name it happens even when NO ONE from this world reaches out they are most of the time the 1st. Then the millions they spend helping other nations never asking for anything in return.

Now I can do all the good I want never ask for anything in return.. yeah won't help me one bit getting in to heaven. Never sinning..still won't get me into heaven. Knowing Christ it will help when it comes to rewards but thats as long as the reason I do it is NOT about rewards but love compassion mercy grace. See all the HELP as a believer I do is HIM through me. He along gets the glory. He rains on the just and unjust. Ever one sees Him every day.. no one will stand before Him and say they never knew He was the great I am. We play blind here..

 

[Rachel20]

But as evidence, you cited a Bible verse that said the opposite of the point you wanted to make.

How? Believing on Christ is the will of the Father. Unless you're saying that is, in itself, a "good work". Sorry, but I'm really not following you.