Can the day or hour be known?

[grafted branch]

Matthew 24:36 makes the statement that no man knows the day or hour. Some views of the end times create a situation where people will be able to calculate out the day of the Lord/second coming described in Matthew 24:30.

When the final week or seven in Daniel 9:27 is placed in the future, people on earth at this time will be able to calculate the date of Christ’s coming by adding 7 years to the date that the covenant was signed. If Matthew 24:22 is used to make the assertion that the days are shortened and therefore no one will be able to determine with any accuracy the date, then the full 70 weeks that are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 will not be fulfilled.

After the 2 witnesses are killed 3.5 days later they stand on their feet, followed by the seventh trumpet. This may also create the issue of people being able to know the day or hour if it’s viewed as happening in the future.

I’m not promoting any particular end time view but I do believe that no one will be able to know the day or hour prior to Christ’s coming. I have been using Matthew 24:36 as a litmus test for deciding which end time views I should study further. However I want to re-examine my view on this and would like to get input on whether the day and hour can be known.

 

[DavidPT]

Matthew 24:36 makes the statement that no man knows the day or hour. Some views of the end times create a situation where people will be able to calculate out the day of the Lord/second coming described in Matthew 24:30.

When the final week or seven in Daniel 9:27 is placed in the future, people on earth at this time will be able to calculate the date of Christ’s coming by adding 7 years to the date that the covenant was signed. If Matthew 24:22 is used to make the assertion that the days are shortened and therefore no one will be able to determine with any accuracy the date, then the full 70 weeks that are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 will not be fulfilled.

After the 2 witnesses are killed 3.5 days later they stand on their feet, followed by the seventh trumpet. This may also create the issue of people being able to know the day or hour if it’s viewed as happening in the future.

I’m not promoting any particular end time view but I do believe that no one will be able to know the day or hour prior to Christ’s coming. I have been using Matthew 24:36 as a litmus test for deciding which end time views I should study further. However I want to re-examine my view on this and would like to get input on whether the day and hour can be known.

If the day and hour can actually be known, that seems to make Jesus out to be a liar since He indicated that only the Father knows that day and hour.

 

[Going_Nowhere]

No. But people will continue to set dates for it regardless.

 

[keras]

Matthew 24:36 makes the statement that no man knows the day or hour. Some views of the end times create a situation where people will be able to calculate out the day of the Lord/second coming described in Matthew 24:30.

It is the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, the next prophesied event, Revelation 6:12-17, that will come as a thief; unexpectedly.

When I talk with Christian people, saying about how my studies in the prophetic Word lead me to believe that there is coming an imminent judgement of all mankind and by using times given to us in scripture with simple mathematics, we can know when the season this will happen, then very often they say: ‘no one knows the Day or the hour’. My reply to them is; ‘You have just opened yourself up to the accusation of quoting verses out of context’.

I ask them to read Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My Words will never pass away. Yet about that Day and hour, no one knows, not the angels, not the Son, no one but the Father alone.
This passage refers to the time that the ‘heaven and earth will pass away’, and as we read in Revelation 20 and Isaiah 65:17, that is the time at the end of the Millennium, ‘when all things are made new’. It is the final wrap up of God’s creation, ‘the victor’s heritage and the second death of all those who refused to obey Him’.

People who say that we cannot know God’s plans for our time, are those who have found Bible prophecy just too difficult to comprehend or to reconcile with teachings and theories they have come to believe. Some simply do not want to know; which is a very poor attitude, that shows a moral laziness. The prophet Daniel 12:9-10, tells us the prophecies are to be kept secret until the time of the end, then there will be some wise leaders who will understand. We are very close to that time, known by the time periods given us and simply by the current state of the world. The promise of God is that anyone who makes the effort with an open mind and in faith and prayer, then God will reveal His plan to them. You deny these scriptures if you say: ‘No one knows the Day’:

Isaiah 48:16 Draw near to Me and hear this: From the beginning, I have never spoken in secret, I will be there at the time of fulfilment.

Isaiah 46:9-10 I am God, there is none like Me. From the beginning, I reveal the end.

Amos 3:7 Indeed the Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to the prophets.

Revelation 1:1 This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, to show His servants what must soon take place.

Ezekiel 12:25 The Lord says to Judah [the Jewish people] You rebellious people, what I threaten will be done within your lifetime. Luke 21:31-32 When you see these signs you will know the Kingdom is near. Those people will not pass away before it all happens.

A lifetime: Three score and ten = 70 or up to 80 years, by reason of strength. Psalms 90:10
Judah came back to the Land in May 1948, so sometime before May 2028, the Lord will act.

Ezekiel 12:19-20 The Lord says to the people of Jerusalem in the Land of Israel: [the Jewish people in the State of Israel] You will eat and drink in fear and horror because of your sins and ungodliness and the Land will become barren and empty. The towns will be deserted and the land will be a wasteland. [Not fulfilled as yet]

1 Thess. 5:1-6... the Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly, while they are saying: all is peaceful, all secure, then sudden destruction is upon them and there is no escape. But you, friends, are not in the dark that Day will not surprise you.

‘they, them’, refers to the godless peoples, but it also applies to those who have failed to discern the prophetic Word, who will be surprised and shocked by this event.

‘all peaceful, all secure’, If an agreement is made soon between the PLO and Israel.

Destruction is upon them’, The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied and described more than 100 times throughout the Bible, as a devastating fire, a sunstrike that will affect the whole world. Most people will survive, but of all the Middle Eastern area, only a remnant in Jerusalem. Then the rest of the prophecies will unfold.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

If the day and hour can actually be known, that seems to make Jesus out to be a liar since He indicated that only the Father knows that day and hour.

Lord Jesus did not know when He spoke those words,however, I believe He knows now and I believe He will tell His prophets when He is coming again as He told Noah.God does not lie.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

 

[DavidPT]

Lord Jesus did not know when He spoke those words,however, I believe He knows now and I believe He will tell His prophets when He is coming again as He told Noah.God does not lie.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

What is your reasoning for Jesus not being in the loop for knowing the day and hour when He initially spoke those words, but now He is in the loop? If He can know it now, why couldn't He also know it back then?

What exactly did the Father accomplish by keeping this from Him at the time if He eventually ends up letting Jesus know this day and hour regardless? Isn't that day and hour a prophecy? Wouldn't that make Jesus a false prophet if He ends up also knowing that day and hour in advance of it being fulfilled, when, in the prophecy He indicated only the Father knows that day and hour in advance?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

What is your reasoning for Jesus not being in the loop for knowing the day and hour when He initially spoke those words, but now He is in the loop? If He can know it now, why couldn't He also know it back then?

You should know. He was incarnated in a human body and He called Himself Son of Man. Though He knew He was the Son of God, in His humanity He was finite. Lord Jesus functioned as a man. There was lots that, as a man, He did not know.

What exactly did the Father accomplish by keeping this from Him at the time if He eventually ends up letting Jesus know this day and hour regardless?

Father God accomplished keeping satan in the dark concerning the Lord's return.

Isn't that day and hour a prophecy?

No.

Wouldn't that make Jesus a false prophet if He ends up also knowing that day and hour in advance of it being fulfilled, when, in the prophecy He indicated only the Father knows that day and hour in advance?

No.

 

[grafted branch]

It is the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, the next prophesied event, Revelation 6:12-17, that will come as a thief; unexpectedly.

When I talk with Christian people, saying about how my studies in the prophetic Word lead me to believe that there is coming an imminent judgement of all mankind and by using times given to us in scripture with simple mathematics, we can know when the season this will happen, then very often they say: ‘no one knows the Day or the hour’. My reply to them is; ‘You have just opened yourself up to the accusation of quoting verses out of context’.

I ask them to read Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My Words will never pass away. Yet about that Day and hour, no one knows, not the angels, not the Son, no one but the Father alone.
This passage refers to the time that the ‘heaven and earth will pass away’, and as we read in Revelation 20 and Isaiah 65:17, that is the time at the end of the Millennium, ‘when all things are made new’. It is the final wrap up of God’s creation, ‘the victor’s heritage and the second death of all those who refused to obey Him’.

People who say that we cannot know God’s plans for our time, are those who have found Bible prophecy just too difficult to comprehend or to reconcile with teachings and theories they have come to believe. Some simply do not want to know; which is a very poor attitude, that shows a moral laziness. The prophet Daniel 12:9-10, tells us the prophecies are to be kept secret until the time of the end, then there will be some wise leaders who will understand. We are very close to that time, known by the time periods given us and simply by the current state of the world. The promise of God is that anyone who makes the effort with an open mind and in faith and prayer, then God will reveal His plan to them. You deny these scriptures if you say: ‘No one knows the Day’:

Isaiah 48:16 Draw near to Me and hear this: From the beginning, I have never spoken in secret, I will be there at the time of fulfilment.

Isaiah 46:9-10 I am God, there is none like Me. From the beginning, I reveal the end.

Amos 3:7 Indeed the Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to the prophets.

Revelation 1:1 This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, to show His servants what must soon take place.

Ezekiel 12:25 The Lord says to Judah [the Jewish people] You rebellious people, what I threaten will be done within your lifetime. Luke 21:31-32 When you see these signs you will know the Kingdom is near. Those people will not pass away before it all happens.

A lifetime: Three score and ten = 70 or up to 80 years, by reason of strength. Psalms 90:10
Judah came back to the Land in May 1948, so sometime before May 2028, the Lord will act.

Ezekiel 12:19-20 The Lord says to the people of Jerusalem in the Land of Israel: [the Jewish people in the State of Israel] You will eat and drink in fear and horror because of your sins and ungodliness and the Land will become barren and empty. The towns will be deserted and the land will be a wasteland. [Not fulfilled as yet]

1 Thess. 5:1-6... the Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly, while they are saying: all is peaceful, all secure, then sudden destruction is upon them and there is no escape. But you, friends, are not in the dark that Day will not surprise you.

‘they, them’, refers to the godless peoples, but it also applies to those who have failed to discern the prophetic Word, who will be surprised and shocked by this event.

‘all peaceful, all secure’, If an agreement is made soon between the PLO and Israel.

Destruction is upon them’, The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied and described more than 100 times throughout the Bible, as a devastating fire, a sunstrike that will affect the whole world. Most people will survive, but of all the Middle Eastern area, only a remnant in Jerusalem. Then the rest of the prophecies will unfold.

OK, so I have a question.

Matthew 24:42 has the statement ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Verse 43 says that if someone did know in what watch the thief would come, he could prevent his house from being broken up. To me this suggests that no one is going to know the day or hour because they will anticipate and “front run” the second coming. Verse 44 then goes on to say be ready because in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

My question is this, who are these verses meant for?

 

[keras]

OK, so I have a question.

Matthew 24:42 has the statement ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Verse 43 says that if someone did know in what watch the thief would come, he could prevent his house from being broken up. To me this suggests that no one is going to know the day or hour because they will anticipate and “front run” the second coming. Verse 44 then goes on to say be ready because in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

My question is this, who are these verses meant for?

Us today. We are the final generation before Jesus Returns to commence His Millennium reign.

The unexpected Day is the Sixth Seal world wide disaster that will commence all the things prophesied, culminating in the Return.
Paul says we should not be in the dark about it. 1 Thess 5:1-10
The Christians who are alive when the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple, will know that after 1260 days, Jesus will Return, so that Day will not be unexpected.

 

[Douggg]

My question is this, who are these verses meant for?

Many are called. Few are chosen.

 

[grafted branch]

Us today. We are the final generation before Jesus Returns to commence His Millennium reign.

The unexpected Day is the Sixth Seal world wide disaster that will commence all the things prophesied, culminating in the Return.
Paul says we should not be in the dark about it. 1 Thess 5:1-10
The Christians who are alive when the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple, will know that after 1260 days, Jesus will Return, so that Day will not be unexpected.

First off I do agree that believers aren’t going to be in the dark and we will know many things about the end and that unbelievers will be the ones who are in the dark; but I’m not sure I completely understand what your view is.

Matthew 24:42 is meant for us today, and we know not what hour our Lord comes. You voted that the day and hour could be known. Matthew24:44-45 seems to be addressed to believers who the Son of man comes in an hour they think not. Are you saying that the second coming is not known but there is another coming after that which will be known?

 

[keras]

. Are you saying that the second coming is not known but there is another coming after that which will be known?

I am saying that the Return of Jesus can be known, as being exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated. Revelation 12:6
The other 'coming' is before the Return; by about 10 years. The Lord will not be seen on His Day of fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal. He sends fire, storms, earthquakes and tsunanis; Psalms 11:4-6, Amos 1

 

[tranquil]

Us today. We are the final generation before Jesus Returns to commence His Millennium reign.

The unexpected Day is the Sixth Seal world wide disaster that will commence all the things prophesied, culminating in the Return.
Paul says we should not be in the dark about it. 1 Thess 5:1-10
The Christians who are alive when the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple, will know that after 1260 days, Jesus will Return, so that Day will not be unexpected.

Yes, but to the deceived the start of the 1335 days looks like the end of 1260 days. 75 days later the deceived rejoice with a victory and that is the true start of the 1260 days.

 

[tranquil]

Matthew 24:36 makes the statement that no man knows the day or hour. Some views of the end times create a situation where people will be able to calculate out the day of the Lord/second coming described in Matthew 24:30.

When the final week or seven in Daniel 9:27 is placed in the future, people on earth at this time will be able to calculate the date of Christ’s coming by adding 7 years to the date that the covenant was signed. If Matthew 24:22 is used to make the assertion that the days are shortened and therefore no one will be able to determine with any accuracy the date, then the full 70 weeks that are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 will not be fulfilled.

After the 2 witnesses are killed 3.5 days later they stand on their feet, followed by the seventh trumpet. This may also create the issue of people being able to know the day or hour if it’s viewed as happening in the future.

I’m not promoting any particular end time view but I do believe that no one will be able to know the day or hour prior to Christ’s coming. I have been using Matthew 24:36 as a litmus test for deciding which end time views I should study further. However I want to re-examine my view on this and would like to get input on whether the day and hour can be known.

the very next verse after Matthew 24:36 is
36“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,b but the Father only.
37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

And what is happening at the start of the kingdom of heaven? Does this sound instantaneous to you?

Matt 25

1“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps.

5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’

7Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.​

the context of 'not knowing the day or hour' is that it is occurring in a 'season'. It isn't possible to say when you will be gathered. People live in different countries, different cities. All the 'virgins' will not be gathered at the same time.

The 'season' that is being referred to is the 'Days of Noah' - 17 Iyyar to 19 Tishri if you go by Genesis 7:24's 150 days or a solar year if you go by 17 Iyyar to 27 Iyyar.

Isn't it curious how this mentions 150 days and there are the 5 months in the 5th Trumpet? (the 'end comes with a flood' Daniel 9:26 = days of Noah's flood)

If we posit that the 'kingdom of heaven' (the start of the 7th Trumpet) begins at the 'days of Noah' (ie 17 Iyyar), isn't it curious how when you subtract 3.5 days (Revelation 11:9) & then 1260 days more (Revelation 11:3), you end up at 24 Kislev? 24 Kislev is the day that Zerubabbel & Joshua are blessed/ chosen (Haggai 2:18-19). Zerubabel & Joshua are the 2 olive trees (Zechariah 3:1, Zechariah 4:8-14). The 2 witnesses are the '2 olive trees' (Revelation 11:4).

Isn't it curious that there is already a notable 24 Kislev in play? In the middle of the 7 years from the 70 years from the state of Israel (Daniel 9:2) to the 77th year of Israel/ Jerusalem desolations, is a 24 Kislev. It is 24 Kislev of 2021 (dusk Nov. 27, 2021).

Isn't it curious that if you go from the creation of the state of Israel, go forward 70 Hebrew calendar years (Daniel 9:2), then 70 weeks (Daniel 9:24), then 7 weeks (Daniel 9:25), then 62 weeks (Daniel 9:25), then half a week (Daniel 9:27), then 1335 days (Daniel 12:11-12), you end up at 2520 days after the Revelation 12 star sign? (Sept 23, 2017 to Aug 17, 2024)

Isn't it curious that there are 9 months (270 days) (Revelation 12's 'birth') from Aug 17, 2024 to May 14, 2025, which is the 77th solar year anniversary of Israel?

Isn't it curious that dusk May 14, 2025 is 17 Iyyar (the start of the 'days of Noah's flood')?

I'm sure I've missed some bits, but you get the idea.

Of course, this is my hypothesis. I do not speak to God. I am not a prophet. Mock away.

 

[iamlamad]

Matthew 24:36 makes the statement that no man knows the day or hour. Some views of the end times create a situation where people will be able to calculate out the day of the Lord/second coming described in Matthew 24:30.

When the final week or seven in Daniel 9:27 is placed in the future, people on earth at this time will be able to calculate the date of Christ’s coming by adding 7 years to the date that the covenant was signed. If Matthew 24:22 is used to make the assertion that the days are shortened and therefore no one will be able to determine with any accuracy the date, then the full 70 weeks that are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 will not be fulfilled.

After the 2 witnesses are killed 3.5 days later they stand on their feet, followed by the seventh trumpet. This may also create the issue of people being able to know the day or hour if it’s viewed as happening in the future.

I’m not promoting any particular end time view but I do believe that no one will be able to know the day or hour prior to Christ’s coming. I have been using Matthew 24:36 as a litmus test for deciding which end time views I should study further. However I want to re-examine my view on this and would like to get input on whether the day and hour can be known.

God is not a man that He should lie. Period and end of story.

 

[iamlamad]

Yes, but to the deceived the start of the 1335 days looks like the end of 1260 days. 75 days later the deceived rejoice with a victory and that is the true start of the 1260 days.

No, the 1290th day is a day that will come 30 days after the 1260th day that will END the 70th week. The 1235th day will be another day that will come 45 days after the 1290th day or 75 days after the end of the 70th week.

 

[iamlamad]

I am saying that the Return of Jesus can be known, as being exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated. Revelation 12:6
The other 'coming' is before the Return; by about 10 years. The Lord will not be seen on His Day of fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal. He sends fire, storms, earthquakes and tsunanis; Psalms 11:4-6, Amos 1

This sounds good in theory, but the truth is, Jesus will NOT COME on the 1260th day. Following that that Jesus will be in heaven with the marriage and supper. It is only after the marriage and supper that He will return to earth. He did not tell us when.

 

[James Honigman]

Matthew 24:36 makes the statement that no man knows the day or hour. Some views of the end times create a situation where people will be able to calculate out the day of the Lord/second coming described in Matthew 24:30.

When the final week or seven in Daniel 9:27 is placed in the future, people on earth at this time will be able to calculate the date of Christ’s coming by adding 7 years to the date that the covenant was signed. If Matthew 24:22 is used to make the assertion that the days are shortened and therefore no one will be able to determine with any accuracy the date, then the full 70 weeks that are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 will not be fulfilled.

After the 2 witnesses are killed 3.5 days later they stand on their feet, followed by the seventh trumpet. This may also create the issue of people being able to know the day or hour if it’s viewed as happening in the future.

I’m not promoting any particular end time view but I do believe that no one will be able to know the day or hour prior to Christ’s coming. I have been using Matthew 24:36 as a litmus test for deciding which end time views I should study further. However I want to re-examine my view on this and would like to get input on whether the day and hour can be known.

NO

 

[grafted branch]

I'm sure I've missed some bits, but you get the idea.

Of course, this is my hypothesis. I do not speak to God. I am not a prophet. Mock away.

I have no desire to mock anyone and I’m glad you gave the statement that it’s a hypothesis.

I listened to Herold Camping many years ago and he had, what I thought at the time, a very plausible explanation about the day the Lord would come (which was in 2012). He was obviously wrong. So one thing I did learn from him was not to put too much emphasis on actual dates.

 

[grafted branch]

God is not a man that He should lie. Period and end of story.

I agree. Amos 3:7 was mentioned earlier by someone and I would like to get your take on it.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

I see it as the second coming is revealed through the scriptures but the actual day and hour are not.

This would also be true in other cases such as Revelation 7:9 where there is a great multitude which no man could number. God could obviously number them but he has chosen not to disclose the actual number; and that’s why no man can number them.

Any other thoughts on this verse?