Can the day or hour be known?

[shilohsfoal]

I do not agree. The abomination of desolation is put in place by the unbelieving Jews.


All the words in red were spoken by Jesus, both in Matthew 24:15-22 and Luke 21:20-24. I harmonize these 2 chapters as if Jesus spoke them all in one discourse pertaining to the vengeance that was to occur. Paraphrasing this is how I see it.

From Matthew; when you see the abomination of desolation then flee. However if the days of vengeance are not shortened then nobody will be saved, so the days are going to be shortened.

From Luke; because the days are going to be shortened, the abomination of desolation is no longer used as the sign. So when you see Jerusalem compassed with armies flee. These are now going to be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.


I see Daniel 12:2 correlating with Matthew 27:52-53 where the graves are opened, many bodies of the saints arise, go into the holy city, and were seen by many. This is literally the first resurrection which included many but not all; so the rest of the dead won’t live again until the 1,000 years are over.

So you believe Daniel was wrong when he prophecied the armed forces belonging to the king of the north would place the abomination of desolation?

Daniel 11:31 NIV: "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

Or do you believe the armed forces of the king of the north are jews?

 

[grafted branch]

So you believe Daniel was wrong when he prophecied the armed forces belonging to the king of the north would place the abomination of desolation?

Daniel 11:31 NIV: "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

Or do you believe the armed forces of the king of the north are jews?

I have relied on commentaries when it comes to Daniel 11. I have not personally examined all the evidence on Antiochus Epiphanes and I’m certainly not an expert on this chapter. That being said I do think from Daniel 11:36 to the end of the chapter it no longer follows Antiochus Epiphanes.

So Daniel 11:31 IMO is referring to the altar to the pagan god Zeus Olympius that was set up in 168 B.C. by Antiochus Epiphanes.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I have relied on commentaries when it comes to Daniel 11. I have not personally examined all the evidence on Antiochus Epiphanes and I’m certainly not an expert on this chapter. That being said I do think from Daniel 11:36 to the end of the chapter it no longer follows Antiochus Epiphanes.

So Daniel 11:31 IMO is referring to the altar to the pagan god Zeus Olympius that was set up in 168 B.C. by Antiochus Epiphanes.

No. Jesus said the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel is a future event. It's not about the past as the phariseees taught.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel in Daniel 11:31 can not be the past or are you saying Jesus is wrong?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I have relied on commentaries when it comes to Daniel 11. I have not personally examined all the evidence on Antiochus Epiphanes and I’m certainly not an expert on this chapter. That being said I do think from Daniel 11:36 to the end of the chapter it no longer follows Antiochus Epiphanes.

So Daniel 11:31 IMO is referring to the altar to the pagan god Zeus Olympius that was set up in 168 B.C. by Antiochus Epiphanes.

PS. You say you don't believe Daniel 11:36 no longer follows Antiochus. If you believe Jesus and Daniel and compare their words you will come to an understanding of when the armed forces of the king of the North place the abomination of desolation and its at the very end of Daniel chapter 11.

They will use the abomination that causes desolation here.Pay close attention to what Jesus and Daniel prophecy and you will understand.


Daniel 11:44 But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.

 

[grafted branch]

No. Jesus said the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel is a future event. It's not about the past as the phariseees taught.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel in Daniel 11:31 can not be the past or are you saying Jesus is wrong?

I see we a difference on which abomination of desolation in Daniel is being referred to by Jesus. I don’t see anything that prevent there from being more than one abomination of desolation.

If someone said when you see the winds picking described by the weather forecaster then know that the hurricane is approaching. You wouldn’t think that the weather forecast from several years ago is what was being referenced because you know it already happened. You would naturally think it was the current forecast. So likewise if it was known that the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 was referring to Antiochus, and this wasn’t rebuked by Jesus, then most likely that wasn’t the one that Jesus was referring to.

I can start quoting commentaries to support my view but I doubt we are going to ever agree on this.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I see we a difference on which abomination of desolation in Daniel is being referred to by Jesus. I don’t see anything that prevent there from being more than one abomination of desolation.

If someone said when you see the winds picking described by the weather forecaster then know that the hurricane is approaching. You wouldn’t think that the weather forecast from several years ago is what was being referenced because you know it already happened. You would naturally think it was the current forecast. So likewise if it was known that the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 was referring to Antiochus, and this wasn’t rebuked by Jesus, then most likely that wasn’t the one that Jesus was referring to.

I can start quoting commentaries to support my view but I doubt we are going to ever agree on this.

Daniel only spoke of one abomination that causes desolation. If there were more than one then he would have said abominations of desolation.

Jesus also spoke of th e abomination as being singular and not plural.

Ofcoarse I've come to the conclusion that the pharisees were wrong as they often were.
You believe their commontaries concerning the abomination that causes desolation is the truth.

Yes I believe we will have to agree we disagree.