CAN sickness glorify God?

[justinstout]

Funny, when I/we quote a text out of the OT it is null-and-void because it is part of the “Old Covenant” but it is permissible for you to quote OT verses as proof-texts for your views on healing and prosperity. Let’s be fair.

~Jim

Well, since the Old Covenant was before the cross of Jesus Christ.. yes, some teachings "null and void" as you say. That doesn't mean we can't learn from them, but we simply cannot form our doctrine just from Job's life and many Old Testament concepts.
Why don't you sacrifice animals?? That's in the Bible, ya know?

As I've said before, it's funny how some people think the only difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is the blank sheet of white paper in their Bible.

 

[franky67]

What kind of a God would expect us to suffer what Jesus Christ suffered for us at Calvary? Should we also suffer sin for "Christ's sake" ???

AMEN !!

 

[JimB]

Well, since the Old Covenant was before the cross of Jesus Christ.. yes, some teachings "null and void" as you say. That doesn't mean we can't learn from them, but we simply cannot form our doctrine just from Job's life and many Old Testament concepts.
Why don't you sacrifice animals?? That's in the Bible, ya know?

As I've said before, it's funny how some people think the only difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is the blank sheet of white paper in their Bible.

I do not have a problem with this at all. I agree.

~Jim

 

[LeeS]

Then wouldn’t you have to admit that God can allow, even cause sickness (either way God is responsible for it) in the life of a believer if it is for the purpose of discipline?

~Jim

NO! When God set the world in motion He made rules for it to follow. What goes up must come down. Whatever a man sows he reaps. God set it all in motion and it all revolved around our obedience. If we choose to disobey we reap what disobedience reaps. If we choose to obey, then we reap what obedience reaps.

The rule is there for the disciplined and the undisciplined alike. Whichever direction we sow is the path we set ourselves in the middle of. We can set ourselves up for failure or we can set ourselves up for success. It's our doing, not Gods. I can rejoice though, because "even though I make my bed in hell, God is with me." I can also rejoice that He is my deliverer and my salvation. My help comes from Him.

 

[oworm]

Scripture does not tell us why. All we know is that it was not the sin of the mother, the father or the man himself. The sickness "happened" but it in no way implies that God made the happening. Only that "it happened", therefore, Gods glory was going to be revealed. There was no revealing of Gods glory in the sickness but in the healing.

JN 9:3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4

 

[justinstout]

"Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents.<---period.

But that the works of God should be made manifest in him, I must work the works of him that sent me..."

 

[oworm]

3"It isn't because this man sinned," said Jesus. "It isn't because his parents sinned. This happened so that God's work could be shown in his life. 4While it is still day, we must do the work of the One who sent me. Night is coming. Then no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the
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3 Jesus answered, Neither this man sinned, neither his elders [neither his father and mother]; but that the works of God be showed in him.
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3Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so (D)that the works of God might be displayed in him.

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" 3Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

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“Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.



"BUT THAT"........................ is the clue

 

[justinstout]

"Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents.<---period.

But that the works of God should be made manifest in him, I must work the works of him that sent me..."

 

[justinstout]

3"It isn't because this man sinned," said Jesus. "It isn't because his parents sinned. This happened so that God's work could be shown in his life. 4While it is still day, we must do the work of the One who sent me. Night is coming. Then no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Jesus answered, Neither this man sinned, neither his elders [neither his father and mother]; but that the works of God be showed in him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so (D)that the works of God might be displayed in him.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" 3Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
“Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.



"BUT THAT"........................ is the clue

"But that" makes perfect sense if you understand that punctuation was NOT in the original Greek.

If we compare this to the rest of the New Covenant (which you refuse to do), we understand how to translate it properly so that God is not to blame for this man's blindness.



"Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents.<---period.

But that the works of God should be made manifest in him, I must work the works of him that sent me..."

 

[lismore]

. We all are healed, just for varying reasons, of which I am not privy to, the healing does not manifest.

Hi friend



What on earth?

Wouldnt it just be simpler to say, some are healed but others for reasons they have not yet sought the Lord for, are not yet healed?

How can you have healing that doesnt heal?

 

[oworm]

"But that" makes perfect sense if you understand that punctuation was NOT in the original Greek.

So why then did you indicate a period in your quote

If we compare this to the rest of the New Covenant (which you refuse to do),

Can you show me where i refused to compare "this" to the new covenant. (are you aware of covenant theology or are you using this term to mean something else?)

we understand how to translate it properly so that God is not to blame for this man's blindness.

Who is "we"?

 

[lismore]

What goes up must come down. Whatever a man sows he reaps. .

But you cannot say all sickness is the result of a person's or his own parents sin?

 

[LeeS]

But you cannot say all sickness is the result of a person's or his own parents sin?

I didn't. Please re-read my post numbers 21 http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=20473291&postcount=21 and 40 http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=20479705&postcount=40

Add on: Or did I read it wrong? I see now that there is a question mark at the end of your statement.

 

[justinstout]

So why then did you indicate a period in your quote

Simple.. to make the verse clearer to understand and make it fit with the rest of Scripture. We must compare Scripture with Scripture. The Scriptures do not contradict themselves. Your interpretation of the verse contradicted the whole ministry and nature of Jesus Christ. That's why I placed the period there, so that there can be understanding of what Jesus was saying and so that God will not be blamed for the man's blindness!

 

[Andrew]

Hi friend



What on earth?

Wouldnt it just be simpler to say, some are healed but others for reasons they have not yet sought the Lord for, are not yet healed?

How can you have healing that doesnt heal?

I think we need to understand that God lives in a timeless zone. As far as God is concerned, Jesus already paid for our healing 2,000 years ago, and that timeless event stands forever. That's why its says by His stripes we were healed. As far as God is concerned we are/were healed.

That's what we mean when we say we are healed already although one might still be sick.

That's why, in the Hebrew language, there is actually no future tense. It is just present or past tense, to put it simply. Of cse, your English Bibles will have a problem with that and hence it adds the future tense to make 'more sense' for the reader.

That's why God could call Abram Abraham or Father of Many, even before Abraham had any children, worse, he was old and Sarah was doubly barren. Was God lying? Was Abraham lying when he went around introducing himself as Father of Many when he had no children? God isn't limited like us by time. As far as He was concerned, it was a done deal. It had already taken place. He saw the future as now. He is the I AM, not I Was or I'm Going To Be.

So when one says that he is healed although he still has the sickness, he is speaking the language/style of God. He is seeing the way God sees, with spiritual eyes. He is going by God's truth, not facts, not the natural, not sight.

 

[LeeS]

Hi friend

What on earth?

Wouldnt it just be simpler to say, some are healed but others for reasons they have not yet sought the Lord for, are not yet healed?

Why? I consider "they are not yet healed", to be a lie.

How can you have healing that doesnt heal?

How can you have won the lottery if the check is not in your bank yet?

 

[oworm]

It's a fact to me that David lived under the Old Covenant. It's a fact to me that David was spiritually dead. It's also a fact to me that I am not spiritually dead and God does not need to "afflict" me or "allow" me to be afflicted so that He can "keep me in line". If you need sickness and disease to keep you "close to God", then knock yourself out, bro.. but that's not God's plan or God's will.

Can you show FROM SCRIPTURE that David was spiritually dead?

 

[lismore]

Why? I consider "they are not yet healed", to be a lie.


How can you have won the lottery if the check is not in your bank yet?

If people are not healed its no point saying they are healed but that the healing might never do any good or indeed appear. This is ludicrous!

You are saying someone can die of a disease and yet still have been healed of it?

Why cant you just seek the lord for healing and the power to heal others instead of inventing cliches.

 

[lismore]

Can you show FROM SCRIPTURE that David was spiritually dead?

Of course he cant. David was closer to God than most of us dream of.

 

[lismore]

I

That's why God could call Abram Abraham or Father of Many, even before Abraham had any children, worse, he was old and Sarah was doubly barren. Was God lying? Was Abraham lying when he went around introducing himself as Father of Many when he had no children? God isn't limited like us by time. As far as He was concerned, it was a done deal. It had already taken place. He saw the future as now. He is the I AM, not I Was or I'm Going To Be.

So when one says that he is healed although he still has the sickness, he is speaking the language/style of God. He is seeing the way God sees, with spiritual eyes. He is going by God's truth, not facts, not the natural, not sight.

I think you have answered your own point. God said Abraham was the Father of a mulititude. Does that automatically mean every believer will be the father of many nations? Has not God given you promises personally? how can you give promises to God to give to you? he sets, we receive.

When one says he is healed when he still has the sickness, he is talking the language of dillusion.

When God says someone is healed, its pick up the mat and walk. You cant be a healed cripple!

Where did Jesus every send anyone away without obvious healing and they spent their whole lives claiming healing but with none ever appearing? The resources would be better spent seeking the Lord rather than claiming sick people are healed.