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CAN sickness glorify God?

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LeeS

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Evee said:
So are you saying God uses sickness to bring all things together for the good?
Some people declare they are closer to God during their sickness.

I believe that sin in some form is the cause of every sickness. It is not necessarily the sin of the person who is sick but somewhere along the line they are reaping the results of what someone sowed...all the way back to Adam. I don't believe originated from God. I believe that Adam and Eve were NEVER sick UNTIL after the fall. Therefore I beleive that all sickness leads to the same perpetrater. And it's not God.

Some people MAY be closer to God during sickness and maybe that is why they are sick. Not acknowledging God while we are well is sin. Yes, God will use whatever we give Him to use. If sickness is the only avenue thorough which some may draw near to Him then yes, He will use it. But the sickness is not what brings things together, it's God. I believe He receives greater glory in the prosperity and health of His saints.
 
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Svt4Him

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oworm said:








JN 9:1-3 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

Let me just change some puntuation, which was added when the verse was translated:

Neither that this man sinned, nor his parents. But so that the works of God might be displayed in him, we must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day. Night is coming when no one can work. qvb://0/anchor/6
 
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justinstout

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oworm said:
JN 9:1-3 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.


Well... another Scripture often used by those who falsely claim that disease somehow brings glory to a Healer. I guess God must be schizophrenic or something. And I guess Jesus had a debate with God as to what would glorify Him in this situation. lol. I think the outcome is pretty clear as to what glorified God. For some reason, Jesus didn't leave the man blind. Hmm... Let's look at some great points...



John 9:1-4
"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work."

Although Jesus did not answer the question "Who sinned?" He did make it clear that it was neither the man nor his parents. Furthermore, Jesus did not say that it was the work of God that the man was blind. In fact, Jesus emphasized that the will of God was to rectify the situation, which He then proceeded to do by healing the man.

Every student of Scripture should be aware that the theology and beliefs of the translators of any version of the Bible affected the way they translated it. Most Greek and Hebrew words have a range of meanings (just as most English words do) and can be translated several different ways. Furthermore, there was no punctuation in the early biblical manuscripts. All the words were run together without breaks between them and without periods, commas, etc. All punctuation was added by translators through the years, as were chapter and verse numbers.

Unfortunately, most translators through the centuries have believed that God is the cause of evil, sin and suffering. The punctuation that has been added to John 9:3,4 in the modern Greek texts, from which we get most of our English translations, reflects this. They do indeed make it seem as if God had made the man blind at birth so He could later heal him, but that would be like a car dealer selling a new car with broken headlights so as to later be able to show off the quality of its service department. The NIV translation is perhaps easier to understand, but is it accurate?

John 9:3,4
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work."

Look back at the KJV's rendering of John 9:3,4. In verse 3, we would put a period after the word "parents" and a comma after the word "him." Thus the text would read:
"Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents.
But that the works of God should be made manifest in him, I must work the works of him that sent me..."

Religious tradition teaches that God is glorified when a believer nobly endures sickness or suffering. Jesus apparently believed that God is glorified by delivering people from such trauma.

If people are going to be delivered, someone must work the works of God. Neither the parents nor the man had sinned. Nor had God made the man blind just so that He could heal him later (after years of suffering). Jesus did not answer the disciples' question as to the cause of the problem. He did, however, show them, and the blind man, God's solution.



So what glorified God? the healing of this man or the disease? If the disease was glorifying God so much, then why on earth did Jesus heal him? Hello???
 
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Evee

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LeeS said:
I believe that sin in some form is the cause of every sickness. It is not necessarily the sin of the person who is sick but somewhere along the line they are reaping the results of what someone sowed...all the way back to Adam. I don't believe originated from God. I believe that Adam and Eve were NEVER sick UNTIL after the fall. Therefore I beleive that all sickness leads to the same perpetrater. And it's not God.

Some people MAY be closer to God during sickness and maybe that is why they are sick. Not acknowledging God while we are well is sin. Yes, God will use whatever we give Him to use. If sickness is the only avenue thorough which some may draw near to Him then yes, He will use it. But the sickness is not what brings things together, it's God. I believe He receives greater glory in the prosperity and health of His saints.
Thank you for your reply to my question.
I believe we are responsible for our own actions though.
I have to admit I have never heard sin and sickness explained in the form of someone other than ourselves.
I agree sickness and sin began with the fall Of Adam and Eve.
I however have to be responsible for my own actions.:)
Also I believe we can bring sickness in our bodies from intentional sin.
 
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Evee

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justinstout said:
Some people probably claim that they are "closer to God" during sin... so what?
Huh? No I don't believe I have ever heard that one.:)
No one wants to be sick that is why we pray for healings.
If God wanted someone sick it would be rather foolish and disobedient to want to be well.
I may put it a better way... when one is sick they depend on God more and don't take their health for granted.
If the doctor can't heal you who can one turn to but God.
 
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oworm

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justinstout said:
Well... another Scripture often used by those who falsely claim that disease somehow brings glory to a Healer. I guess God must be schizophrenic or something. And I guess Jesus had a debate with God as to what would glorify Him in this situation. lol. I think the outcome is pretty clear as to what glorified God. For some reason, Jesus didn't leave the man blind. Hmm... Let's look at some great points...



John 9:1-4
"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work."

Although Jesus did not answer the question "Who sinned?" He did make it clear that it was neither the man nor his parents. Furthermore, Jesus did not say that it was the work of God that the man was blind. In fact, Jesus emphasized that the will of God was to rectify the situation, which He then proceeded to do by healing the man.

Every student of Scripture should be aware that the theology and beliefs of the translators of any version of the Bible affected the way they translated it. Most Greek and Hebrew words have a range of meanings (just as most English words do) and can be translated several different ways. Furthermore, there was no punctuation in the early biblical manuscripts. All the words were run together without breaks between them and without periods, commas, etc. All punctuation was added by translators through the years, as were chapter and verse numbers.

Unfortunately, most translators through the centuries have believed that God is the cause of evil, sin and suffering. The punctuation that has been added to John 9:3,4 in the modern Greek texts, from which we get most of our English translations, reflects this. They do indeed make it seem as if God had made the man blind at birth so He could later heal him, but that would be like a car dealer selling a new car with broken headlights so as to later be able to show off the quality of its service department. The NIV translation is perhaps easier to understand, but is it accurate?

John 9:3,4
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work."

Look back at the KJV's rendering of John 9:3,4. In verse 3, we would put a period after the word "parents" and a comma after the word "him." Thus the text would read:
"Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents.
But that the works of God should be made manifest in him, I must work the works of him that sent me..."

Religious tradition teaches that God is glorified when a believer nobly endures sickness or suffering. Jesus apparently believed that God is glorified by delivering people from such trauma.

If people are going to be delivered, someone must work the works of God. Neither the parents nor the man had sinned. Nor had God made the man blind just so that He could heal him later (after years of suffering). Jesus did not answer the disciples' question as to the cause of the problem. He did, however, show them, and the blind man, God's solution.



So what glorified God? the healing of this man or the disease? If the disease was glorifying God so much, then why on earth did Jesus heal him? Hello???

Well.As this is a fellowship forum I am not allowed to dispute or debate here. Since you have retreated from the GT forums and closed all your related threads Im no longer able to debate with you. :(
 
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Evee

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The man that was healed by Jesus that was sick for 38 years, Jesus said, now that you are well: don't sin as you have before or something even worse may happen to you. Some sickness must be brought on by sin but how do we explain this quote from oworm?

`Quote
quot-top-right.gif
quot-by-left.gif
Originally Posted by: oworm
quot-by-right.gif
quot-top-right-10.gif


JN 9:1-3 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.
 
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LeeS

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Evee said:
Thank you for your reply to my question.
I believe we are responsible for our own actions though.
I have to admit I have never heard sin and sickness explained in the form of someone other than ourselves.
I agree sickness and sin began with the fall Of Adam and Eve.
I however have to be responsible for my own actions.:)
Also I believe we can bring sickness in our bodies from intentional sin.

Where did I say we were not responsible for our own actions? We can be sure that what we sow we WILL reap.

However we are not always, actually very rarely do our actions involve only us. What we do does have an affect in SOME way on everyone we are in contact with. Our family and friends all potentially can be affected by what we sow merely due to their relationship with us. Such as, a man who cheats on his wife and contracts AIDS. He gives her the disease, and her being pregnant causes the baby to be born with AIDS. Is it the babys fault? No. Is it the mothers fault? No. The sin of the man affected more than just him. It affected his wife, his children, his parents and siblings, his wifes parents and siblings and aunts and uncles and cousins AND the future lives of those grandchildren who were not born because of his choice to commit adultery.
 
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LeeS

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Evee said:
If the doctor can't heal you who can one turn to but God.

I understand what you are saying but it would be better to turn to God in the first place. Why wait until I am desperate? It is my opinion that God may choose to use the doctor in the process of healing. The doctor only knows what they know because God breathed breath into them just like everyone else . He allowed the medical world to know what they know. Some of it they've learned right, some of it they have not. God is the healer, not the doctor.
 
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LeeS

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Evee said:
The man that was healed by Jesus that was sick for 38 years, Jesus said, now that you are well: don't sin as you have before or something even worse may happen to you. Some sickness must be brought on by sin but how do we explain this quote from oworm?

`Quote
quot-top-right.gif
quot-by-left.gif
Originally Posted by: oworm
quot-by-right.gif
quot-top-right-10.gif


JN 9:1-3 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

Here I believe we can see that it was not "sin" in his or his parents but there was sin in Adam. The work of God displayed in the mans life was when he was healed not when he was sick.
 
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LeeS

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Evee said:
Ok I will say one more thing then I have to be finished it is getting me no where. God heals but not everyone is healed.

I'm not meaning to upset you but according to His Word, we all "ARE healed". But we don't all manifest that healing.

When I had a life threatening issue I understood that according to the Word I was already healed. But for WHATEVER REASON (it does not matter) I did not manifest that healing. I did not want to fight with it anymore so when I got the opportunity and had a job that would cover it I had it taken care of via the doctors. I would love to have stood until my healing manifested but I was too tired to fight it anymore. My being tired did not make what Christ did on the cross of any less effect. We all are healed, just for varying reasons, of which I am not privy to, the healing does not manifest.
 
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oworm

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LeeS said:
Here I believe we can see that it was not "sin" in his or his parents but there was sin in Adam. The work of God displayed in the mans life was when he was healed not when he was sick.

Why was the man born blind?
 
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Andrew

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Jim M said:
I would like to amend the subject of the thread that asks “Does sickness glorify God?” by asking, “CAN sickness glorify God?” Ever? Why?/Why not?

~Jim

Nope. unless it had a voice. Even then, I don't think germs, bacteria and viruses would go, "Hallelujah, hallelujah, halleii luuu jah!"
 
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Evee

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LeeS said:
I understand what you are saying but it would be better to turn to God in the first place. Why wait until I am desperate? It is my opinion that God may choose to use the doctor in the process of healing. The doctor only knows what they know because God breathed breath into them just like everyone else . He allowed the medical world to know what they know. Some of it they've learned right, some of it they have not. God is the healer, not the doctor.
Of course you are right I always pray and then go to the doctor.
I will pray please let there be no sickness in my body.
I was healed of Cancer through a doctor I know in reality it was God through him so.... Oh I never get upset with what people say on message boards I walk away for a day or so if I feel edgy.:)
 
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Evee

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LeeS said:
I'm not meaning to upset you but according to His Word, we all "ARE healed". But we don't all manifest that healing.

When I had a life threatening issue I understood that according to the Word I was already healed. But for WHATEVER REASON (it does not matter) I did not manifest that healing. I did not want to fight with it anymore so when I got the opportunity and had a job that would cover it I had it taken care of via the doctors. I would love to have stood until my healing manifested but I was too tired to fight it anymore. My being tired did not make what Christ did on the cross of any less effect. We all are healed, just for varying reasons, of which I am not privy to, the healing does not manifest.
I will agree with this.. our healing is not always activated as I have said from the beginning.
I was in the WOF movement for a lot of years.
I never doubt God's power even though some may think so.
So of course you are not upsetting me.:)
 
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LeeS

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oworm said:
Why was the man born blind?

Scripture does not tell us why. All we know is that it was not the sin of the mother, the father or the man himself. The sickness "happened" but it in no way implies that God made the happening. Only that "it happened", therefore, Gods glory was going to be revealed. There was no revealing of Gods glory in the sickness but in the healing.
 
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