Can people who disagree on abortion stop attacking each other?

[BNR32FAN]

Murder, of course. But almost everyone who speaks and writes English knows zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses are not people because "person" means a born human being.

Seriously? I can’t seem to find any definition of the word “person” that includes the condition of being born.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You mean a person, not just any clump of homo sapiens cells.

Congratulations now look up the definition of the word “person” and you’ll find that it’s a human being. Now we’re just playing word games.

 

[GodLovesCats]

And I thought you started this thread to have a polite discussion about this topic. Now your resorting to name calling. You know full well that there are numerous organizations out there that help struggling families and adoption centers and government funded child protection services that absolutely will not turn away any child that is neglected or in need. These contingencies have been in place for over a century.

I am not actually calling people hypocrites, but asking people if that is what they are. Big difference.

Sure, a woman could get some help here and some help there, but no charity can provide health insurance. She needs the federal government to give her that.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I was born an American citizen. I became a Christian 20 years later. So chronologically, the opposite is true.

Are you a US Citizen first and a Christian second then?

 

[Margaret3110]

Are you a US Citizen first and a Christian second then?

Can you show us where in the New Testament it says we should impose our religious beliefs on others using the government?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Can you show us where in the New Testament it says we should impose our religious beliefs on others using the government?

Can you show me where the New Testament opposes power? The power to impose is the power of government and the New Testament is not anarchic, in that it doesn't reject legal or governmental authority. The question is whether Christians have a right to participate in that power and if we don't, then we are subject to the power of non-Christians. To say that Christians should not participate in power is to stretch the New Testament beyond what it actually says. God appoints sovereigns and if the sovereign is Christian and is operating on a Christian moral understanding then he is legitimate.

 

[Margaret3110]

Can you show me where the New Testament opposes power? The power to impose is the power of government and the New Testament is not anarchic, in that it doesn't reject legal or governmental authority. The question is whether Christians have a right to participate in that power and if we don't, then we are subject to the power of non-Christians.

You didn't answer my question ...

 

[GodLovesCats]

Seriously? I can’t seem to find any definition of the word “person” that includes the condition of being born.

Unborn human beings have never been called people legally or by expecting mothers. You must be confused with the words baby and child being used in future tense.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

You didn't answer my question ...

I answered it the best way I could, by actually seeking to understand what power is. The New Testament doesn't give explicit command for Christians to take power, but it doesn't forbid Christians from being in power either. Do you believe every Christian in a position of power must subordinate their moral and religious beliefs to another system of understanding the world?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Are you a US Citizen first and a Christian second then?

God is my first love, but I am still a very patriotic voter who believes women's rights and the right to privacy are two things that make America the best country in the world.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I am not actually calling people hypocrites, but asking people if that is what they are. Big difference.

Sure, a woman could get some help here and some help there, but no charity can provide health insurance. She needs the federal government to give her that.

For a woman who doesn’t want a child there are adoption centers that will take unwanted children. Then she doesn’t have to worry about anything.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

God is my first love, but I am still a very patriotic voter who believes women's rights is one thing that makes America the best country in the world.

Does God oppose abortion?

 

[Margaret3110]

I answered it the best way I could, by actually seeking to understand what power is. The New Testament doesn't give explicit command for Christians to take power, but it doesn't forbid Christians from being in power either. Do you believe every Christian in a position of power must subordinate their moral and religious beliefs to another system of understanding the world?

I believe a Christian with political power is in a precarious position and is still bound to follow the laws of his or her country. "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." There is no justification in the New Testament for a theocracy.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Unborn human beings have never been called people legally or by expecting mothers. You must be confused with the words baby and child being used in future tense.

So I’ll take that as a no then, you weren’t able to find any definition of the word “person” that has the condition that the human being must be born. Your just playing word games.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I believe a Christian with political power is in a precarious position and is still bound to follow the laws of his or her country. "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." There is no justification in the New Testament for a theocracy.

Where does the New Testament oppose theocracy or the implementation of religious standards on law/society?

Also, is theocracy the only form of government you think the New Testament opposes? Is Monarchy or Republicanism out the window? Are Christians to be utterly subject to the power of non-Christians and their standards?

 

[Margaret3110]

Where does the New Testament oppose theocracy or the implementation of religious standards on law/society?

Also, is theocracy the only form of government you think the New Testament opposes? Is Monarchy or Republicanism out the window? Are Christians to be utterly subject to the power of non-Christians and their standards?

Jesus was subject to Roman rule. So were the early Christians. Why do you think we should be different?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I believe a Christian with political power is in a precarious position and is still bound to follow the laws of his or her country. "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." There is no justification in the New Testament for a theocracy.

That statement was made in reference to paying taxes, not obeying laws that are directly contradictory to God’s laws. Most of the apostles were martyred for not submitting to the governing authorities because it involved them denying Christ. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were blessed by God for refusing to bow to Nebuchadnezzar’s statue even tho it was mandatory by law. The Bible has many examples of servants of God who defied the law because it was contrary to God’s law.

 

[Margaret3110]

That statement was made in reference to paying taxes, not obeying laws that are directly contradictory to God’s laws. Most of the apostles were martyred for not submitting to the governing authorities because it involved them denying Christ. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were blessed by God for refusing to bow to Nebuchadnezzar’s statue even tho it was mandatory by law.

OK .... so don't have an abortion yourself. No one is making you have an abortion.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Jesus was subject to Roman rule. So were the early Christians. Why do you think we should be different?

Yes they were subject to Roman rule but they were not subservient to it. They recognized the legal authority of Rome but still treated Rome as an enemy, something you didn't collude with or bend the knee too in all instances. Christians who did do what Rome wanted, such as in the case of sacrificing to the gods, were literally expelled from the Churches and excommunicated. Christians understood themselves as fundamentally alien from Rome.

Perhaps we should have such an attitude towards our own secular liberal democracies.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Does God oppose abortion?

Yes, of course He does. But He causes millions cf miscarriages, so obviously not all human lives are sacred.