Can people who disagree on abortion stop attacking each other?

[GodLovesCats]

Providing diapers and such is nice, and helpful, but when you don't have actual prenatal care or postnatal care or childcare or any time off from work ... it's not enough. Pro-life people need to advocate for these policies.

Yep, this is exactly what I was complaining about. The government needs to help pregnant girls and women with every tiny detail when they have unwanted pregnancies or suddenly find themselves unable to take care of babies they initially wanted.

 

[Margaret3110]

Just one example:

Pro-Life Groups Redouble Efforts to Help Moms in Need

Anticipating the overturn of Roe v. Wade, diocesan, parish pro-life groups mobilize Catholics to further help women and families, including through the program Walking With Moms in Need.

www.ncregister.com

I read the whole article and can't tell what they are actually doing. Regardless, my point stands. Is the church going to pay for my son's weeks in the NICU? I don't think so.

 

[GodLovesCats]

You are first a Christian, second an American citizen. That's why you don't see me use the secular laws of my country to defend an act God judges as murder.

I was born an American citizen. I became a Christian 20 years later. So chronologically, the opposite is true.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I read the whole article and can't tell what they are actually doing. Regardless, my point stands. Is the church going to pay for my son's weeks in the NICU? I don't think so.

No church ever pays a single penny for babies stuck in NICUs. They pay the poor moms a little bit to buy toys, bottles, and diapers.

Only the government can fix the problem with babies living in NICUs while their unemployed mothers have no health insurance.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I read the whole article and can't tell what they are actually doing. Regardless, my point stands. Is the church going to pay for my son's weeks in the NICU? I don't think so.

I haven't asked them, but you can try? Here's another example:

Home - Let Them Live

by empowering women in crisis pregnancies.

letthemlive.org

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I was born an American citizen. I became a Christian 20 years later. So chronologically, the opposite is true.

If we set our priorities in "chronological order" there is no point in even being a Christian. What kind of argument is this?

 

[Margaret3110]

I haven't asked them, but you can try? Here's another example:

Home - Let Them Live

by empowering women in crisis pregnancies.

letthemlive.org

NICU costs thousands of dollars per day, and a stay in the NICU can be weeks or months. I highly doubt that a church can afford to cover that for all the women whose babies are premature, have birth defects, etc.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I never said the USA is superior to God or Christians should treat its government as being superior to the Bible. I am only talking about why abortion must never be called murder. That has absolutely nothing to do with my opinions about the morality of abortion. Get that straight.

What would you call it when someone intentionally takes the life of an innocent person?

 

[GodLovesCats]

So far no abortion opponents are willing to accept the extremely obvious, repeatedly proven fact that the federal and 50 state governments must step in to help pregnant girls and women get all of the help they need to drastically reduce the number of abortions.

Are abortion opponents deliberately being hypocrites or really unaware of verifiable facts about this?

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Bible's definition of murder is irrelevant in the USA. I showed you why. You are choosing not to accept that fact. I am sure if you were an American citizen and got your education the same way I did, it would make more sense to you.

I’m an American citizen born and raised in the US and I completely disagree. The only thing that changes the definition is whether or not it is legal to perform an abortion. If we deem it illegal to perform an abortion then it absolutely is by definition murder.

 

[Desk trauma]

So far no abortion opponents are willing to accept the extremely obvious, repeatedly proven fact that the federal and 50 state governments must step in to help pregnant girls and women get all of the help they need to drastically reduce the number of abortions.

The suffering is a feature, not a bug.

 

[Margaret3110]

So far no abortion opponents are willing to accept the extremely obvious, repeatedly proven fact that the federal and 50 state governments must step in to help pregnant girls and women get all of the help they need to drastically reduce the number of abortions in America.

I think on some level, many of them subconsciously feel that women deserve whatever hardship pregnancy and motherhood brings on them, even death. That's the only reason I can think of.

 

[Desk trauma]

I’m an American citizen born and raised in the US and I completely disagree. The only thing that changes the definition is whether or not it is legal to perform an abortion. If we deem it illegal to perform an abortion then it absolutely is by definition murder.

Only if it’s classed as murder which even the harshest anti abortion laws have not done in the US.

 

[GodLovesCats]

What would you call it when someone intentionally takes the life of an innocent person?

Murder, of course. But almost everyone who speaks and writes English knows zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses are not people because "person" means a born human being.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So far no abortion opponents are willing to accept the extremely obvious, repeatedly proven fact that the federal and 50 state governments must step in to help pregnant girls and women get all of the help they need to drastically reduce the number of abortions.

Are abortion opponents simply ignoring the truth or deliberately being hypocrites?

And I thought you started this thread to have a polite discussion about this topic. Now your resorting to name calling. You know full well that there are numerous organizations out there that help struggling families and adoption centers and government funded child protection services that absolutely will not turn away any child that is neglected or in need. These contingencies have been in place for over a century.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Only if it’s classed as murder which even the harshest anti abortion laws have not done in the US.

The definition of murder is the unlawful killing of a human being.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The suffering is a feature, not a bug.

A feature? IOW suffering is a very good and important part of pregnancy and no pregnant women should be treated for it.

No real Christian wants pregnant women to suffer against their will. They all want God to make them better. Why? Because they all know God is love.

So let me see you act like a Christian by expressing true concern for the mother instead of a desire to abandon her when she needs help the most.

 

[Desk trauma]

The definition of murder is the unlawful killing of a human being.

Yet no state has classed abortion as murder in their laws.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The definition of murder is the unlawful killing of a human being.

You mean a person, not just any clump of homo sapiens cells.

 

[Desk trauma]

A feature?

Yes, a feature. They must suffer the consequences of their actions for having sex. Not my view but it's repeated over and over in anti-abortion rhetoric.

No comment could be more stupid than that one, especially coming from a Christian.

I hear it often.