Can people still die after the Millenium?

[Maria Billingsley]

What about what this passage records?


1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


What I have underlined, doesn't that contradict reigning forever and ever? Instead of it having to be a contradiction though, it is not a contradiction if prior to the end coming it involves reigning during the millennium, and then after the millennium, it involves still reigning during satan's little season, and then still reigning during the great white throne judgment. Therefore, it's not that Christ doesn't reign forever and ever, because clearly He does, it's that He doesn't reign forever and ever in the sense involving all rule and all authority and power, which involves judging and judgment, things that will no longer be necessary once the great white throne judgment has concluded. But until the great white judgment takes place and has concluded entirely, the end meant in 1 Corinthians 15:24 hasn't possibly arrived in the meantime. And before the great white throne judgment can even take place, there has to be a millennium that precedes it first.

Paul's writings to the Corinthians about the ressurection is not proof text for a Millennial reign. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh so we know all power IS with Him. This is a fact. So we shouldn't make doctrinie from obscure texts especially when the context has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Blessings.

 

[DavidPT]

Paul's writings to the Corinthians about the ressurection is not proof text for a Millennial reign. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh so we know all power IS with Him. This is a fact. So we shouldn't make doctrinie from obscure texts especially when the context has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Blessings.

When you are arguing against a millennium, are you are arguing against it in general, or only arguing against Premil's interpretation of it?
Even per Amil there is a millenium except it is not involving a literal thousand years nor is it involving a time after Christ has returned. Yet it is involving the thousand years, what some of us simply define as a millennium since that's what a thousand years equal. Would it be better in your case if some of us would simply call it a thousand years rather than a millennium, since that way a thousand years can be taken in more than one sense, that maybe it is involving a literal thousand years, or maybe it isn't?

 

[Blade]

I would think so ...well Satan will be falling for sometime and then let loose again so it would (speculation which is never wise to run with) seem he is still god of this world.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

When you are arguing against a millennium, are you are arguing against it in general, or only arguing against Premil's interpretation of it?
Even per Amil there is a millenium except it is not involving a literal thousand years nor is it involving a time after Christ has returned. Yet it is involving the thousand years, what some of us simply define as a millennium since that's what a thousand years equal. Would it be better in your case if some of us would simply call it a thousand years rather than a millennium, since that way a thousand years can be taken in more than one sense, that maybe it is involving a literal thousand years, or maybe it isn't?

Maybe I am ignorant on this matter but I see it as no Millennium period. No such thing. I see it as a Hebraism or a hyperbole indicating foreverness.

 

[Timtofly]

Paul's writings to the Corinthians about the ressurection is not proof text for a Millennial reign. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh so we know all power IS with Him. This is a fact. So we shouldn't make doctrinie from obscure texts especially when the context has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Blessings.

Of course 1 Corinthians 15 has every thing to do with the subject at hand. Jesus hands back creation prior to the GWT judgment of those dead found in creation. Once there is no more creation the dead are all cast into the LOF. The LOF is a seperate creation that is not even in existence yet. We have no idea of what it is or even consist of. There is more in Scripture about the Millennium reign after the Second Coming than the LOF. The LOF begins at some point at or after the Second Coming. The LOF itself will exist 1,000 years because the rest of the dead are not even put in at the same time the beast and the FP are put into the LOF. They may be the only beings in the LOF for 1,000 years. Amil deny that fact, or outright avoid talking about it. Certainly the beast and the FP have not been in the LOF since the first century.

"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

This did not happen 1993 years ago.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Originally, they were in the KJV

And? Your point is? If you do not have a proper understanding of Scripture or fail to compare Scripture with Scripture, even with the KJV, you will not have the truth. The Scripture is NOT supposed to be interpreted by the book of Josephus or Apocrypha. Selah.

Gen 40:8
(8) And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.

And the only place you can find His interpretation is right there in His Word.

 

[Douggg]

We like to think of that verse:
"There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." Isaiah 65:20

Or in Brenton's Old Testament:
"Neither shall there be there any more a child that dies untimely, or an old man who shall not complete his time: for the youth shall be a hundred years old, and the sinner who dies at a hundred years shall also be accursed"

But is it in the Millenium? Let's just a few verses back:
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."

So, it IS talking about the time after the Millenium - eternity. At least that's how I understand it.

We see also a distinction between those two phases - Millenium and eternity.

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

I will confess I do not have the answer on that matter. Looks like God does not want us to know yet, yet it's interesting, since every scripture is important, isn't it? What is the end? The Greek word translated as "end" is "telos", which can also mean "a toll" or "a limit". It can refer to either the second coming, armaggedon, but it can also refer to the end of the Millenial Reign, which is described in Revelation 20:7-9.

Also, notice it states He will reign TILL all enemies are defeated, then He will deliver the kingdom up to the Father. Of course, it won't be until then that death will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14). However, death, it seems, still seems to be there as a form of discipline. Notice that it is described as the last enemy that will be destroyed. Yes, death. Not Satan. Not the ungodly. Shouldn't that give us thinking? Like I said, I still lack of the answers.

Maybe we should read the Apocrypha. I am aware many oppose it. But it was widespread by the early church.

That are my thoughts so far. What are yours? Do you have a better explaination?

Persons in their non-resurrected natural bodies...
After the millennium begins - yes, albeit life spans will be longer.
After the millennium is completed - no - as death is then cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Of course 1 Corinthians 15 has every thing to do with the subject at hand. Jesus hands back creation prior to the GWT judgment of those dead found in creation. Once there is no more creation the dead are all cast into the LOF. The LOF is a seperate creation that is not even in existence yet. We have no idea of what it is or even consist of. There is more in Scripture about the Millennium reign after the Second Coming than the LOF. The LOF begins at some point at or after the Second Coming. The LOF itself will exist 1,000 years because the rest of the dead are not even put in at the same time the beast and the FP are put into the LOF. They may be the only beings in the LOF for 1,000 years. Amil deny that fact, or outright avoid talking about it. Certainly the beast and the FP have not been in the LOF since the first century.

"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

This did not happen 1993 years ago.

Thank you but I am a partial Preterist and not a Dispensational futurist.
Blessings

 

[LW97Nils]

After the millennium is completed - no - as death is then cast into the lake of fire.

Logically, yes, but this passage in Isaiah seems to challenge that.

 

[LW97Nils]

And? Your point is? If you do not have a proper understanding of Scripture or fail to compare Scripture with Scripture, even with the KJV, you will not have the truth. The Scripture is NOT supposed to be interpreted by the book of Josephus or Apocrypha. Selah.

Gen 40:8
(8) And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.

And the only place you can find His interpretation is right there in His Word.

Which originally included the Apocrypha.

 

[Timtofly]

Thank you but I am a partial Preterist and not a Dispensational futurist.
Blessings

What you are does not change God's Word.

 

[Petros2015]

Then why can't we see Him?

55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

The possibilities that come to mind are either 1) it isn't true or 2) we are blind in some way or 3) we don't really want to
But one thing that does seem true to me is that not everybody sees the same things

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What you are does not change God's Word.

What you are can twist God's word. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Timtofly]

What you are can twist God's word. Thanks for sharing.

Defining one's own symbolism is twisting God's Word. Many think they know what all the symbolism implies. That is man's theology.

 

[Andrewn]

I believe after Christ returns we are through with the flesh period. So there will be no more death in that aspect of a flesh death. All will be changed in an instant at the last trump.

This is what Amillennialists believe, and I agree with it.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This is what Amillennialists believe, and I agree with it.

In a twinkle of an eye!

 

[parousia70]

Logically, yes, but this passage in Isaiah seems to challenge that.

Indeed. "The child shall die 100 years old".

"Shall Die" is faily emphatic.

I concur with:
C.H. Spurgeon - On New Heavens and Earth (1865)

"Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354)

Scripture confirms this understanding that the Formulation of the Covenant Nation of Israel under Moses in the wilderness was the declared by God to be the Planting of Heaven and the founding of the earth: (Isaiah 51:16) and We Know from scripture that the Change of covenants from Mosaic to Christic was to be brought about by the shaking and removal of Heaven and Earth (Hebrews 12:18-28)

 

[Timtofly]

This is what Amillennialists believe, and I agree with it.

So there will not be flesh bodies at the GWT, and no flesh bodies in the LOF.

Thus no resurrection of the dead period.

Premil accept that as well.

 

[LW97Nils]

Indeed. "The child shall die 100 years old".

"Shall Die" is faily emphatic.

I concur with:
C.H. Spurgeon - On New Heavens and Earth (1865)

"Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354)

Scripture confirms this understanding that the Formulation of the Covenant Nation of Israel under Moses in the wilderness was the declared by God to be the Planting of Heaven and the founding of the earth: (Isaiah 51:16) and We Know from scripture that the Change of covenants from Mosaic to Christic was to be brought about by the shaking and removal of Heaven and Earth (Hebrews 12:18-28)

Thank you!

 

[ViaCrucis]

We like to think of that verse:
"There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." Isaiah 65:20

Or in Brenton's Old Testament:
"Neither shall there be there any more a child that dies untimely, or an old man who shall not complete his time: for the youth shall be a hundred years old, and the sinner who dies at a hundred years shall also be accursed"

But is it in the Millenium? Let's just a few verses back:
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."

So, it IS talking about the time after the Millenium - eternity. At least that's how I understand it.

We see also a distinction between those two phases - Millenium and eternity.

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

I will confess I do not have the answer on that matter. Looks like God does not want us to know yet, yet it's interesting, since every scripture is important, isn't it? What is the end? The Greek word translated as "end" is "telos", which can also mean "a toll" or "a limit". It can refer to either the second coming, armaggedon, but it can also refer to the end of the Millenial Reign, which is described in Revelation 20:7-9.

Also, notice it states He will reign TILL all enemies are defeated, then He will deliver the kingdom up to the Father. Of course, it won't be until then that death will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14). However, death, it seems, still seems to be there as a form of discipline. Notice that it is described as the last enemy that will be destroyed. Yes, death. Not Satan. Not the ungodly. Shouldn't that give us thinking? Like I said, I still lack of the answers.

Maybe we should read the Apocrypha. I am aware many oppose it. But it was widespread by the early church.

That are my thoughts so far. What are yours? Do you have a better explaination?

The Prophet Isaiah speaks of the Age to Come, the point he makes isn't that people will die, but that people will live. We are provided more clarification in the New Testament, that in the resurrection the body is imperishable and immortal, death is swallowed up in victory: there is no more death at all.

As someone who understands the Millennium to be figurative language to speak of Christ's present reign from heaven, and so the Millennium has been ongoing since the Lord's Ascension and will continue until His return in glory, I can't offer much for those who take a Chiliast/Premillennial position, since it's not one I subscribe to. I believe that at the Lord's Ascension He fulfilled Daniel's vision of the Son of Man being brought up before the Ancient of Days and given everlasting kingdom and dominion (Daniel 7:13-14, Matthew 28:18), He has received His exaltation as King Messiah (Philippians 2:9-11), reigning as Lord with a rod of iron (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 19:15). When He returns at the End, He delivers all things over to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24), for He must put all enemies under His feet, the final enemy is death, which is destroyed at His coming, at the resurrection of the dead (1 Corinthians 15:54-56): Death is swallowed up in victory.

-CryptoLutheran