Can Pastors Live Too Extravagantly?

[Ave Maria]

Yes and I think that certain televangelists are perfect examples of pastors who live too extravagantly.

 

[Musician4Jesus]

How can a pastor who makes more then their congregation possibly relate to their congregation? They say that God will bless and prosper you and that they know what you're going through. If he's living a high-crust upper class lifestyle, and most of the people in his congregation are middle class struggling to make ends meet, how can they possibly relate? It's easy for them to be happy and positive about their lives when they're living in the lap of luxury. However more often then not people in a church congregation can't relate to their pastor since they're on completely different grounds when compared to the pastor. From personal experience I can say personally it irritates me when somebody says they can really relate to what I'm going through but they really can't because their situation is completely different. You have to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and try to relate to where they've been life in order for you to say "I understand where you're coming from and what you're going through" to have any significant meaning.

Is providing for their family and living a lifestyle they enjoy wrong? No. But can it can breed habits that completely contradict what the message of the Gospel says? Yes; examples? materialism, being greedy, living for this world and not for God. These are merely examples I can think of off the top of my head. However if a pastor truly loves God then they'll truly live for God and their motives will be out of love and actually making time to help those in need; they won't be doing their job for how much money it earns them but because they believe God has called them to it.

If they say they love God, then it will truly show by both their actions and their deeds. They'll give back to the kingdom of God and help those who are destitute and hurting.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Most people work 40 hours a week. A decent pastor works 24 hours a day and often neglects their own family for their congregation. Im shocked that so many begrudge them compensation commensurate to their worth while they would demand adequate pay for themselves.

 

[Hagnismos]

I'm surprised this thread is still going on. I begrudge no one. Ted Haggerty received plenty of compensation.

I do not ever want to be in a church with a pastor who works 24 hours a day, he is certain to be divorced long before he is able to properly teach the first new convert in how to fill out the bank form for an automatic ten percent deduction from their check. Moderation is the answer, conscience and liberty. The Lord provides and the church should give a pastor and his family a wage that allows them to do their work without worrying about how the bills are going to get paid, or living paycheck to paycheck all the time. Pastors should be willing to understand when their congregation gets laid off that so do they.

I can't really see what anyone is debating about unless we have the greedy on one side and the stingy on the other. So, greed versus greed.

Paul tells Timothy like six times in the two letters not to argue over such things.

 

[Angel4Truth]

A decent pastor has to be on call 24 hours a day - he isnt going to turn away the woman who calls in the middle of the night because her husband had a heart attack etc...

 

[Tenebrae]

A decent pastor has to be on call 24 hours a day - he isnt going to turn away the woman who calls in the middle of the night because her husband had a heart attack etc...

a sensible pastor delegates I hope and has people to back them up


As harsh as it is, and I didnt realise this until after I started working for a community mental health organization that I cant do any good for other people if I am so exhausted that I cant keep my eyes open. I have to be able to finish up work at the end of the week and leave work at work. Pastors are humans, and they very much need to have time out in the same way I do.


I hope they delegate

 

[Angel4Truth]

Agreed tenebrae - my point is that most people though forget their pastors do much more than preach a sermon each week and often take massive amounts of time outside the pulpit to pastor their flock.

 

[Hagnismos]

Agreed tenebrae - my point is that most people though forget their pastors do much more than preach a sermon each week and often take massive amounts of time outside the pulpit to pastor their flock.

Good points.

I would hope that the pastor sees very little of what he does as the sermon. I'm not a pastor and I can rattle off 50 sermons without a problem. Pastors, which really are elders, should shephed the flock. So I do agree they should delegate, but delegate might be too strong of a term, there should be a group of elders at each church and deacons and intercessors etc. The church itself including the pastor should be comforting those who suffer. There is nothing worse than going to a church where the only one who knows how to do a proper exegesis is the senior pastor. I am all for small close knit congregations, but then I am also for people who know when not to be talking about other people's business. A healthy church is fine thing, and as churches do grow and change over time they may go through difficult times. Jesus is the Lord of the church though He holds the seven stars in his hand.

Along those line I visited a church the other day with my family, we went twice to Sunday morning and just loved it. It was'nt perfect the child care folks were pretty driven to make every moment count for Jesus, which I though was a little over the top considering our daughter is four, but you know I like the sermon the worship, the overall atmosphere. Then I went by myself for a Wendesday evening and the associate pastor was there. Very young, good guy, but a rambling sermon that had very little content. As I was sitting there before the service a stranger walked up to me and started talking to me about my sisters divorce. He was apparently a friend of my ex-brother-in-law that I did not know. Well he insinuated that God still wanted them together etc. I really had all I could do to pray through the sense that I should throttle the guy right their for sticking his nose so far into something that caused my family so much pain and then trying to use Scripture to keep the abuse going. So I wrote to the pastor about it and he acted like 'yah so what, the guy pays tithes.' Needless to say we probably will never be going back to that church again. If it was just one or two maladjusted prophets I would tough it out, but when you have the congregation and the pastor unable to speak properly to and issue that is well covered by Scripture, you are probably better to count your blessings and walk away while you still can.

That said, as a new Christian I attended and Open Bible church and though it turned toward the end, for at least a few years it was about as close to a heavenly family as I have ever seen. The pastor was a true shepherd and cared deeply about us all, we respected him, and the Lord blessed us with His presence in amazing ways.

I guess I just needed to get that of my chest. If I had found even one local pastor that I could really look up to in the last ten years. Sadly pastors under the reign of denominationalism seem to be all too human. I am blaming that because there are clicks that grow out of the Bible colleges and pet doctrines and alot of competition to reach milestones in ministry. In short professionalism has replaced anointing and the heart of Christ in so many pulpits. I would take 15 minutes of casual conversation with my first pastor over 300 hours with most degreed counselors. I'm not exaggerating, if you are going to accept a job as a pastor you better be called. None of this Christian rockstar mentality, of these kids that grow up in the church and to please mom and dad the boys have to be pastors or missionaries and the girls have to be pastors wives. Nonsense. We are all called to ministry but pastors without pastoral giftings are the bane of any congregation.

 

[Armistead]

I have no doubt that most tele-evangelist are pure athiest...No one that believes in God could do what they do to the poor and ignorant.

They hide their crimes by doing some good..use 10% of the money on charity and spend the rest on themselves.

It's would be funny, if not so sad, the new themes they come up with..now the "plant a seed" scam.

They play off the fear and guilt of religion. Afterall, it works so well.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I have no doubt that most tele-evangelist are pure athiest...No one that believes in God could do what they do to the poor and ignorant.

They hide their crimes by doing some good..use 10% of the money on charity and spend the rest on themselves.

It's would be funny, if not so sad, the new themes they come up with..now the "plant a seed" scam.

They play off the fear and guilt of religion. Afterall, it works so well.

i used to frequently watch random televangelists and i can agree with that. some still preach the truth, but there have been times i was completely appalled at the statements some have made. one that i saw, had a list of fundamentals on a sheet on the wall, about doing for God so that He would do for you. Then they went as far as to say that if you have someone struggling in your life, with addiction, or sin, that you need to give your sacrifice to them (1800 number) to receive healing and blessing in your life.

 

[Musician4Jesus]

this is a quote that Angel4Truth Made and the message that follows this quote (the one that's in black is my message) is directed toward her.

Most people work 40 hours a week. A decent pastor works 24 hours a day and often neglects their own family for theirt congregation. Im shocked that so many begrudge them compensation commensurate to their worth while they would demand adequate pay for themselves.

Your perspective is really unrealistic and selfish in and of itself in my opinion.

There are loads of people who are stuck living from paycheck-to-paycheck yet they work just as hard to earn a living for their family. The cost-of-living in the United States has become so ridiculous via inflation that most people are struggling by just to cover the cost of basics (food, clothing, bills, mortgage, etc.) Why is it so exclusive to pastors that they get indulgences here and there but for the rest of the majority of the congregation (which are middle class and the working class) should just deal with being underpaid and overworked, yet the pastor should be treated like God? ! How on earth is that fair? That's playing favorites and completely biased!!!

You're making the assumption that everybody in this post has said that the pastor should be working at his job just to serve God in ministry just for charity. That the gifts of pleasing God via obedience and sharing the love and message of the gospel should keep them satisfied. That in order to scrounge together a living for themselves they should find another source of income by means of taking on another job and that in their pastoral line of work they should just be destitute and not receive "fruits of their labor" as it were in exchange (a.k.a. some sort of compensation). The general consensus I've received by skimming through this post is that a pastor and the members in their congregation should be treated as equals, so that the pastor can ACTUALLY RELATE (truly and personally based on experiences in his life)
to the people in his congregation. Why? So that his sermons are genuine and that he's not just talking the talk but not walking the walk (actions speak louder then words in my opinion). If you say one thing but then act another way it's mixed messages that completely contradict one another and leave people confused and more often then not divided against one another.

Plenty of people have done a lovely job of assuming that the pastor who is the head of church is the only one that ministers. That the people in the congregation do absolutely nothing to serve God via ministry. There are tons of people IN THE CONGREGATION who sacrifice of themselves in many ways; by giving their time and energy and by choosing to serve God. Why? Not because they feel obligated to do so. However they do so cause they care and love people and want to help them. That unlike many Christians I've encountered they're not serving God just to gloat and get in the limelight but are actually doing so with pure motives; these motives are is that they're actually willing to interact with non-Christians step out of their comfort zone and do stuff to help others even if it's involves something they don't want to hear. or do on a personal level.

 

[Angel4Truth]

wow musician seems you are the one making the assumptions there and im sorry you feel i am selfish for reminding people that pastors do more than preach.

God bless you

 

[Musician4Jesus]

Look now you are making assumptions by completely misinterpreting what I said. I never said you as a person were selfish. However since when is it fair when a pastor makes more then the people in his congregation? How on earth is he supposed to be able to relate to the people in his congregation if he's living a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle, where on the contrary many of the people in his congregation are middle class living from paycheck to paycheck just to provide for their families. In order for a pastor to relate to his congregation in this respect he has to have some idea based on his own life experiences what his congregation is going through. To say "a pastor should be paid more cause of all he does" is a line of bull in my opinion that is completely biased and playing favorites. Many people in the body of Christ not only preach but also share the love of Christ through actions..not just talking. Should he be compensated for the fruits of his labor by actually being paid for the job he does? Yes because many pastors what they do as a pastor is their main job and as a result their source of income. Should he be paid more then the people in his congregation? No I don't believe so because then when he tries to relate them regarding finances it's just empty words that have no meaning to the congregation on a personal level. A pastor who makes more then the people in his congregation is like a rich man saying to a poor peasant "I know what you're going through and how much you're struggling with finances" when they really don't know what the peasant is going through since they're both in separate social circles; as a result the way of life is so different.

 

[JacobHall86]

I am a seminary student, I graduate in may and am talking with a church about coming on staff in August. My fiance (we get married June 16th) will make literally TWICE as much as me. After crunching numbers and looking at bills, my paycheck will cover all of our bills, leaving hers to be used towards savings and other things, but thats still a large chunk of change that we will have to use on whatever we want.

If my paycheck is used to pay for the necessities of life, whats wrong with me living nicely on her paycheck.

And to the people who said that the Apostles never asked for money, go read what Paul wrote again, he was never shy about asking for money so that he could continue ministry.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I am a seminary student, I graduate in may and am talking with a church about coming on staff in August. My fiance (we get married June 16th) will make literally TWICE as much as me. After crunching numbers and looking at bills, my paycheck will cover all of our bills, leaving hers to be used towards savings and other things, but thats still a large chunk of change that we will have to use on whatever we want.

If my paycheck is used to pay for the necessities of life, whats wrong with me living nicely on her paycheck.

And to the people who said that the Apostles never asked for money, go read what Paul wrote again, he was never shy about asking for money so that he could continue ministry.

I think the subject really is about extravagance. For example, a preacher getting off of his 30 million dollar jet, into his/her entourage of mercedes, and then into the pulpit to preach to people, many of whom are on fixed incomes and government support. Who wants to hear a sermon of how it is better to give than receive after that?


this is not just a assumption, it happens.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

that is, of course, an exception in the world of ministry. most pastors make a average wage, the pastor at the church i currently attend actually works a second job. I believe a pastor should be paid for their work, and how can a man stay focused on his ministry when he still has to go out and earn a wage outside of his church duties?

 

[Ringo84]

Absolutely.

If you center your entire life around the acquisition of worldly good and money, then worldly goods and money become your god. That's why I have such a problem with the Word Of Faith teachers who seem to be all in it for the money and not for God.

Jesus didn't ask His people to "go out and preach the gospel to the world" so that pastors could acquire wealth. That's not to say that pastors shouldn't have anything, but pastors don't need to be living in mansions and driving flashy cars - that's not the point of ministry.

It's like the Billy Joel song "Movin' Out (Anthony's Song) says: "And if that's what you have in mind/yeah if that's what you're all about".
Ringo

 

[Angel4Truth]

Look now you are making assumptions by completely misinterpreting what I said. I never said you as a person were selfish. However since when is it fair when a pastor makes more then the people in his congregation? How on earth is he supposed to be able to relate to the people in his congregation if he's living a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle, where on the contrary many of the people in his congregation are middle class living from paycheck to paycheck just to provide for their families. In order for a pastor to relate to his congregation in this respect he has to have some idea based on his own life experiences what his congregation is going through. To say "a pastor should be paid more cause of all he does" is a line of bull in my opinion that is completely biased and playing favorites. Many people in the body of Christ not only preach but also share the love of Christ through actions..not just talking. Should he be compensated for the fruits of his labor by actually being paid for the job he does? Yes because many pastors what they do as a pastor is their main job and as a result their source of income. Should he be paid more then the people in his congregation? No I don't believe so because then when he tries to relate them regarding finances it's just empty words that have no meaning to the congregation on a personal level. A pastor who makes more then the people in his congregation is like a rich man saying to a poor peasant "I know what you're going through and how much you're struggling with finances" when they really don't know what the peasant is going through since they're both in separate social circles; as a result the way of life is so different.

Yes you did say that and then you editted your post. God bless you.

Adding and these are your words above not mine - you didnt make quotes and started posting in my font color even though these are your words not mine

Your perspective is really unrealistic and selfish in and of itself in my opinion.

 

[Musician4Jesus]

I meant your perspective on the situation is really selfish and unrealistic. WHERE does that say you're selfish and unrealistic as a person? It doesn't. I never said you were selfish and unrealistic as a person; I thought your perspective on the situation was...when you compare those two concepts there's a huge difference. If you chose to think that I said "you're selfish and unrealistic as person" well then that's your assumption and that's how you perceive it. But that's NOT what I said.

 

[JacobHall86]

How can a pastor who makes more then their congregation possibly relate to their congregation?

I suppose the same way that a man who is not having sex with prostitutes can relate to a sex addict.