Can non-Trinitarians be saved?

[1an]

As it is only God who can forgive our sins, my post was about the necessity of recognising Jesus Christ for who He truly is, and then proceeding to believe in Him, and accept Jesus as their own personal Saviour. Hopefully your friend accepted Jesus as his Lord, Saviour, and Master, and as Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, your friend's belief in Jesus would make him a believer in the Godhead.

I think it is a little more complex than that. At which point did the disciples know Jesus is God, it would seem later in his ministry or even post-resurrection. So does this mean "difficult to see how they can be saved" prior to this understanding? You say that doesn't apply because it was a transition time. Well, it happens all the time today, for example, read this account regarding a former Muslim's experience of salvation:

One night the only food my wife and I had was a small portion of macaroni. My wife prepared it very nicely. Then one of her friends knocked on the door. I told myself, The macaroni is not sufficient for even the two of us, so how will it be enough for three of us? But because we have no other custom, we opened the door, and she came in to eat with us.
While we were eating, the macaroni started to multiply; it became full in the bowl. I suspected that something was wrong with my eyes, so I started rubbing them. I thought maybe my wife hid some macaroni under the small table, so I checked, but there was nothing. My wife and I looked at each other, but because the guest was there we said nothing.
Afterward I lay down on the bed, and as I slept, Isa came to me and asked me, "Do you know who multiplied the macaroni?" I said, "I don't know." He said, "I am Isa al Masih [Jesus, the Messiah]. If you follow me, not only the macaroni but your life will be multiplied.”​

I am personally aware of this individual and know the his journey started when he responded to this from Christ in his dream to "follow me" not unlike the same call spoken to the disciples. Over the next few years, He started by learning about Christ through the Quran, because that was all he knew, then after obtaining a Bible, he understood Christ as the Saviour, then later as the Son of God and even later more articulate as the 2nd person of the trinity. He was maybe baptized 3 years after this dream event, but today leads thousands to Christ through insider movements. So at which point before his belief that Jesus was God was it "difficult to see how [he could] be saved"?

Salvation is a jorney and we can't demand sinner prayer moments that go through all correct points of belief to affirm if someone is saved or not.

 

[DNB]

Well, I think that there are many profound implications by believing whether Jesus Christ is God, or not.
For one, you are establishing something about God's ontology. Claiming that God is either 3 persons in 1, or 1 person in one essence, affects the type of reverence and admiration that one will have for God. i.e. To love God, is to know God.
Two, affirming that God's soteriology is defined by Himself, redeeming man from from himself, or him sending a man to act as mediator, reflects a lot about how one thinks of God's wisdom and justice.
Three, to attempt to define Jesus as a God man, as opposed to a human or creature man, again, reflects a great deal about one's regard for God's rationale and wisdom i.e. revealing himself in such a manner.
Four, to regard Jesus in heaven, as a creature sitting at the right-hand side of God, or as God, sitting beside himself, reflects a great deal of how one considers God's majesty and council.
Five, to extrapolate a doctrine from the Bible, that has neither any of the key or related words that define the doctrine within the Bible, that not one prayer or doxology is expressed in such a fashion, that not one conversion ever used such a formula, but only inferences are given, would say something about how you feel about God's desire or manner to impart such a doctrine to his children.

Thus, I don't believe that such diametrically opposed perceptions of God, can both lead one to appreciate God's holiness and justice, biblical testimony, and the grounds for our salvation.
Therefore, either we will worship God, as three identical persons in heaven, or God as one person and his Son, who is the first-born of all creation.
Big difference!

 

[Andrewn]

I use the term more broadly than a modern view or "Wikipedia" view as their view of God did not include Jesus

Words are supposed to facilitate communication. In 2020, the term "Unitarianism" carries a specific meaning. If you use it to mean something else then your writing will be confusing, you will be misunderstood.

 

[DamianWarS]

As it is only God who can forgive our sins, my post was about the necessity of recognising Jesus Christ for who He truly is, and then proceeding to believe in Him, and accept Jesus as their own personal Saviour. Hopefully your friend accepted Jesus as his Lord, Saviour, and Master, and as Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, your friend's belief in Jesus would make him a believer in the Godhead.

He indeed does recognizes Jesus this way today but there was a process of discovering this, however, what is clear is the moment he chose to follow Christ (also not unlike the disciples' own process), this process was about 3 years. Jesus asks Peter who he thought he was and Peter told him that he was the Son of God to which Jesus replies "this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" and this is still in effect today. We cannot reveal Christ to people, only the Father can.

What you seem to be saying is we need a prerequisite understanding of Christ before true belief can happen and I disagree with this as understanding happens along the way not at the beginning (and continues to happen throughout our lives). Christ doesn't require the disciples to recite a carefully constructed creed before following him so they know what they are getting into... he just says "follow me" and the correct action was simply to follow him and nothing else.

 

[DamianWarS]

Words are supposed to facilitate communication. In 2020, the term "Unitarianism" carries a specific meaning. If you use it to mean something else then your writing will be confusing, you will be misunderstood.

I was referring to a period explicitly pre-Christ (not 2020) I thought the context was implicit

 

[Dave L]

How do you equate that? Please show your work.

Book, Chapter, Verse

If Jesus is a trinity, and you reject that, you have a false Jesus which is merely an idol.

 

[Neogaia777]

If Jesus is a trinity, and you reject that, you have a false Jesus which is merely an idol.

Jesus never testified that ever specifically about Himself though, equal to or one with God, yes, maybe, but not that He was or is a or the Trinity, in and of Himself only, without the others, etc, or separate from the two different others, etc...? Only the True Father God could be said to be, (and always was, will have, and will be, etc), the one that is still the other two separate or apart from them, etc, or without them, or the other two, etc...

Again Jesus did not testify this about Himself, etc, but He did many other things, etc, that showed who He truly is, was, and will be, etc... Which great beyond measure for us, with us, being God with us always, either here or in Heaven, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Dave L]

Jesus never testified that ever specifically about Himself though, equal to or one with God, yes, maybe, but not that He was or is a or the Trinity, in and of Himself only, without the others, etc, or separate from the two different others, etc...? Only the True Father God could be said to be, (and always was, will have, and will be, etc), the one that is still the other two separate or apart from them, etc, or without them, or the other two, etc...

Again Jesus did not testify this about Himself, etc, but He did many other things, etc, that showed who He truly is, was, and will be, etc... Which great beyond measure for us, with us, being God with us always, either here or in Heaven, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Would you still have a Rolex if it was a $50 knock off? Jesus is trinitarian and to reject this is idol worship.

 

[Neogaia777]

Would you still have a Rolex if it was a $50 knock off? Jesus is trinitarian and to reject this is idol worship.

And what do you "mean by that", etc...?

Do you mean could exist or be the other two apart from the other two, or any single one, or what?

And again, I don't know if it completely in line with Jesus testimony about Himself either, biblically either, etc...? I don't know if Jesus Himself would say He was the Trinity, etc, and don't think He ever did, nor even would now, etc...

He is part of a Triune being, but He is not all those other parts, apart from the other parts, etc, together they have and/or do make up "God", etc, but as for the One who exists apart from them or the others or the other two, the only One who might remain or still be, is the one who is apart from the others, or any other, etc...

That One might need sole distinction maybe, if maybe even in one small way maybe, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Dave L]

And what do you "mean by that", etc...?

Do you mean could exist or be the other two apart from the other two, or any single one, or what?

And again, I don't know if it completely in line with Jesus testimony about Himself either, biblically either, etc...? I don't know if Jesus Himself would say He was the Trinity, etc, and don't think He ever did, nor even would now, etc...

God Bless!

Christ is not Christ unless he's the trinitarian Christ.

 

[Neogaia777]

Christ is not Christ unless he's the trinitarian Christ.

Again, what is the "trinitarian Christ to you", like with some of the questions I asked, etc...?

And is it the Biblical Christ, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Dave L]

Again, what is the "trinitarian Christ to you", like with some of the questions I asked, etc...?

And is it the Biblical Christ, etc...?

God Bless!

Unless you understand the trinity, it will remain a mystery.

 

[Neogaia777]

Unless you understand the trinity, it will remain a mystery.

That's funny, really funny... So, am I going to hell and am I forvever condemned for it, don't yet have Salvation here yet, etc...?

So on and so forth, etc...?

Yes or No...?

God Bless!

 

[Dave L]

That's funny, really funny... So, am I going to hell and am I forvever condemned for it, don't yet have Salvation here yet, etc...?

So on and so forth, etc...?

Yes or No...?

God Bless!

If you reject the trinity, you reject Christ.

 

[1an]

He indeed does recognizes Jesus this way today but there was a process of discovering this, however, what is clear is the moment he chose to follow Christ (also not unlike the disciples' own process), this process was about 3 years. Jesus asks Peter who he thought he was and Peter told him that he was the Son of God to which Jesus replies "this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" and this is still in effect today. We cannot reveal Christ to people, only the Father can.

What you seem to be saying is we need a prerequisite understanding of Christ before true belief can happen and I disagree with this as understanding happens along the way not at the beginning (and continues to happen throughout our lives). Christ doesn't require the disciples to recite a carefully constructed creed before following him so they know what they are getting into... he just says "follow me" and the correct action was simply to follow him and nothing else.

No, we do not need prior knowledge of Jesus before we come to him. Remember Jesus and the little children. No knowledge there. First we come to Christ, and we feed on the milk, then the strong meat follows. Blessings.

 

[FallenAndBack93]

If you reject the trinity, you reject Christ.

According to...?

 

[1an]

Jesus never testified that ever specifically about Himself though, equal to or one with God, yes, maybe, but not that He was or is a or the Trinity, in and of Himself only, without the others, etc, or separate from the two different others, etc...? Only the True Father God could be said to be, (and always was, will have, and will be, etc), the one that is still the other two separate or apart from them, etc, or without them, or the other two, etc...

Again Jesus did not testify this about Himself, etc, but He did many other things, etc, that showed who He truly is, was, and will be, etc... Which great beyond measure for us, with us, being God with us always, either here or in Heaven, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Jesus often spoke of himself along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, Baptise in the name of...... etc.

 

[Dave L]

According to...?

If you reject the true and choose a counterfeit, what good is it?

 

[Neogaia777]

If you reject the trinity, you reject Christ.

Does a person have to have a full and accurate and true genuine complete full knowledge, or knowing or understanding of your Trinity before they can be saved...?

And seeing as you won't even ask some of the most minor questions about it, greatly increases my doubts that you have a full and 100% complete and/or accurate genuine and 100% true understanding about it at all either...

Jesus did not say He is the Trinity, ect, was not part of The, or His own testimony about Himself ever, etc, biblically, etc, so how can your view of the Trinity be 100% totally Biblical, (cause it's not, etc)...

Said that God was a Trinity, and that He was God, but not that He was the Trinity, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[FallenAndBack93]

If you reject the true and choose a counterfeit, what good is it?

None.

So your claim is true according to...?