• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured Can non-Trinitarians be saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Andrewn, Feb 7, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 1an

    1an Newbie

    929
    +92
    United Kingdom
    Pentecostal
    Single
    In the Bible the word is Godhead.

    Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

    Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
     
  2. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    897
    +714
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    No human beings are qualified to determine who God will accept into Heaven, and who He will condemn. It seems unlikely that He would condemn those who never had an opportunity to hear about Him. It also seems unlikely that He would condemn members of unauthorized manmade churches that have broken away from the one Church He founded for them.
     
  3. Christ is Lord

    Christ is Lord Well-Known Member

    578
    +399
    Virgin Islands, British
    Christian
    Single
    That’s a good way to approach it. And if it’s not the correct Jesus and they believe in that construct then they aren’t saved. Correct?
     
  4. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    +6,738
    Pentecostal
    Single
    Unauthorized? The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? - Mark 11:30

    The church was not supposed to use authority with terrorist tactics...

    But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; - Matthew 20:25-26
     
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    +6,738
    Pentecostal
    Single
    The Apostleship of Paul? Was it from heaven or men? Was it of Christ Jesus or was it of Saint Peter?
     
  6. 1an

    1an Newbie

    929
    +92
    United Kingdom
    Pentecostal
    Single
    Jesus said in Mark 16:16, "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."

    New King James Version
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  7. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,372
    Christian
    Private
    prior to Jesus unitarianism was the only way, everything else was blaspheme.
     
  8. 1an

    1an Newbie

    929
    +92
    United Kingdom
    Pentecostal
    Single
    There is only One God. Trouble is, people seem unable to believe the omnipresent God was with us in the form of man who He originally created. If people do not believe that, then they do nor believe in Almighty God, and as belief in God is essential for salvation, then it is difficult to see how they can be saved.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  9. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

    +1,413
    Canada
    Anglican
    Married
    "Unitarian Christians believe that Jesus was inspired by God in his moral teachings, and he is a savior, but he was not a deity or God incarnate."

    Unitarianism - Wikipedia

    So, basically Unitarianism is the old heresy known in history as Adoptionism. I see that @Sabertooth agreed with your post. Is this what both of you believe?
     
  10. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

    491
    +459
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I was just reading in Acts (Chapter 20) where Paul summarized that he taught repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ as that this was the good news of the grace of God. It seems he felt no need to insert anything about trinitarianism. While further on he encouraged and warned them to take heed to yourselves and to all the flock among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood (because of the wolves ready to come in after his departure), He infers rather than defines a trinity. There are a few groups that leave it at that, and I can't fault them. I'm not sure we do ourselves any favors by further defining something that wasn't defined in Scriptures and then using our definition as the rule of measurement against others. I am particularly concerned when those conclusions we draw are from proof texts here and there, knowing that the NT in particular was written with a context and the potential for error exists to rely on proof texts above the simple message of the words in context.
     
  11. S.O.J.I.A.

    S.O.J.I.A. Dynamic UNO

    +2,572
    United States
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    as long as these people recognize Jesus Christ as the messiah and the one whom we must call on and believe in for salvation than it's not essential that they accept trinitarian doctrine.
     
  12. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

    +1,829
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    UK-Independence-Party
    Lol
    In my view, most Calvinists are idol worshippers. Even if they haven't carved an idol, they bow down to the written image of Calvin more than to God.
     
  13. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

    +4,117
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    US-Others
    Before Jesus, it was a type of unitarianism that was different than its current form.

    (Trinity [< triune] still retains a unitarian quality or we wouldn't have had to coin the word in the first place.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  14. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

    +1,114
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Absolutely not. Every group you cite is a cult and we might as well add the unitarians to the bunch. It is impossible to read scripture and come away with any conclusion other than a triune God. Any other belief is so contrary to scripture that it changes the nature of God by denying at least two parts of the godhead.
     
  15. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

    +1,829
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    UK-Independence-Party
    Absolutely.
    I believe there is a considerable difference between being born again, and being saved. The former must come before the latter is ever possible.
    Being born again, as the above scriptures make abundantly clear, does not require a theology of the cross. It just needs a man to turn his heart to God, the God who reveals himself to all men!

    Should he die, anyone who is born again will be received by God, because he has already passed from death to life. But after New Birth, Salvation is an ongoing process that lasts a whole lifetime, although sadly, most remain spiritual infants till the day they die.

    I was born again as a child, more than a decade before I heard the gospel. I heard God speak to me directly, among other things telling me that he lived in my heart, not in a church building. He also told me that eternal life was nothing to do with being a good person, but because of what he had done.

    I knew nothing of the cross till ten years later.

    So regarding the requirement to know a correct theology of the cross, here's what Paul says.-
    1Cor1v18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    Unless and until a person is born again, he is classed as spiritually dead, ie. "perishing!"
    But look above, the message of the cross is "foolishness" to such people, so how can an unbeliever ever possibly understand what Jesus did on the cross? Clearly, comprehending the message of the cross is only possible to those who are already born again. Therefore being "born again" is possible before knowing what Jesus did on the cross.

    Therefore, anyone who turns to God can be born again, whether Trinitarian or not!

    So what of the cross?
    All new life, all salvation, all forgiveness of sin, depends on the price Jesus paid. This is true for Adam himself, for Noah, Abraham, Moses, for David, Hezekiah Joseph and even Mary.
    Jesus is the God we see all through the OT, including He who walked with Adam Abraham and Moses. Therefore when Jesus speaks of believing in Him, it is the same as believing in Jehovah, El Shadai, Elohim, etc.

    I shall end here, but there is of course much more to this line of thinking.
     
  16. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Hands-on Trainee Supporter

    +2,731
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    How do you equate that? Please show your work.

    Book, Chapter, Verse
     
  17. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

    +7,203
    Presbyterian
    Single
    I think this is misleading. Adoptionism is an early Christology, before the Trinity and Incarnation had really been formulated. It wasn't Trinitarian, but that doesn't mean that all modern non-Trinitarians are reasonably classified as adoptionist. In fact one could in principle use the major concept of adoptionism in a Trinitarian theology (though I don't know of anyone who has actually done that).
     
  18. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

    +1,413
    Canada
    Anglican
    Married
    "Adoptionism, also called dynamic monarchianism, is a Christian nontrinitarian theological doctrine which holds that Jesus was adopted as the Son of God at his baptism, his resurrection, or his ascension."

    No, it wasn't Trinitarian and Trinitarians considered it heretical.

    I never claimed that they are. I only wrote that "Unitarianism" is similar to Adoptionism. Only Unitarianism is, not OnePen, not LDS, not JW.

    How is this possible when Trinitarians believe that Christ was God since conception? He wasn't adopted after his birth. He was born God.
     
  19. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,372
    Christian
    Private
    I use the term more broadly than a modern view or "Wikipedia" view as their view of God did not include Jesus
     
  20. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,372
    Christian
    Private
    I think it is a little more complex than that. At which point did the disciples know Jesus is God, it would seem later in his ministry or even post-resurrection. So does this mean "difficult to see how they can be saved" prior to this understanding? You say that doesn't apply because it was a transition time. Well, it happens all the time today, for example, read this account regarding a former Muslim's experience of salvation:

    One night the only food my wife and I had was a small portion of macaroni. My wife prepared it very nicely. Then one of her friends knocked on the door. I told myself, The macaroni is not sufficient for even the two of us, so how will it be enough for three of us? But because we have no other custom, we opened the door, and she came in to eat with us.
    While we were eating, the macaroni started to multiply; it became full in the bowl. I suspected that something was wrong with my eyes, so I started rubbing them. I thought maybe my wife hid some macaroni under the small table, so I checked, but there was nothing. My wife and I looked at each other, but because the guest was there we said nothing.
    Afterward I lay down on the bed, and as I slept, Isa came to me and asked me, "Do you know who multiplied the macaroni?" I said, "I don't know." He said, "I am Isa al Masih [Jesus, the Messiah]. If you follow me, not only the macaroni but your life will be multiplied.”

    I am personally aware of this individual and know the his journey started when he responded to this from Christ in his dream to "follow me" not unlike the same call spoken to the disciples. Over the next few years, He started by learning about Christ through the Quran, because that was all he knew, then after obtaining a Bible, he understood Christ as the Saviour, then later as the Son of God and even later more articulate as the 2nd person of the trinity. He was maybe baptized 3 years after this dream event, but today leads thousands to Christ through insider movements. So at which point before his belief that Jesus was God was it "difficult to see how [he could] be saved"?

    Salvation is a jorney and we can't demand sinner prayer moments that go through all correct points of belief to affirm if someone is saved or not.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...