Can Evolution and Creation Co-Exist?

[Radagast]

So.....can it?

Why couldn't it be possible for God to create everything, and then allow things to run there own course after that?

I presume you are asking about "theistic evolution," which is quite a common point of view among Christians globally. Theistic evolution says that God created everything, and that He used evolutionary mechanisms as part of the process of doing so.

 

[Bombila]

1. People have different beliefs, including creationism. You shouldn't call people that unless they really deserve it. Not only is it wrong, it's unchristian.

2. The man, Ken Ham, is actually a very smart man who brings loads of evidence and some good points. You should not call him ugly, it's rude. Besides he's from Australia. It might be common over there to wear facial hair like that.

It helps if you use the quote function, or name the poster you are responding to, otherwise it can be very confusing. ;-)

I have no idea what your first point is responding to.

Ken Ham is indeed quite smart, but he does not have 'loads of evidence', nor many good points, either. He makes stuff up. I didn't call him ugly, but I'm pretty sure cheekbone beard patches are not common masculine facial decor in Australia, either.

 

[Holy Roller]

"Masculine facial decor?" Let's at least strive for some semblance of articulation before we post. Thank you.

 

[Garyzenuf]

I didn't call him ugly, but I'm pretty sure cheekbone beard patches are not common masculine facial decor in Australia, either.

Possible he just may not be quite as "evolved" as the rest of us?

 

[Assyrian]

For one thing --- evolution would require death --- and death is God's enemy.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

You still using that argument AV?

You know it doesn't stand up.

 

[paug]

"Masculine facial decor?" Let's at least strive for some semblance of articulation before we post. Thank you.

HR, give it a rest. Seriously. You know what he meant, I know what he meant, everyone knows what he meant. Your tossing "long" and "hard" words around doesn't do much for your reputation or credibility at the forum.

 

[Bombila]

"Masculine facial decor?" Let's at least strive for some semblance of articulation before we post. Thank you.

Did you find the words or the phrase hard to understand? Is verbal humour unknown to you? Is one of the words offensive to you? Are you sensitive about your own facial hair?

I am striving to find your own style amusing, but you aren't making it at all easy.

 

[HumbleServant94]

Creationist are the bin Ladens of the Christian world. Just like when an American Muslim hears someone say that all Muslims are terrorist, intelligent American Christians /facepalm at creationist. They are a small but vocal minority. Not to mention the fact that this guy is a runner up for the ugliest person on earth.

I mean what man grows hair right under his eyes?

This is what I was talking about. He doesn't make up stuff. I read some of his books. They make more sense to me. Whenever I read evolution stuff it always contradicts itself.

 

[Chalnoth]

So.....can it?

Why couldn't it be possible for God to create everything, and then allow things to run there own course after that?

Certainly it's conceivable. But then it begs the question: when did God do the creating? Was it 6,000 years ago? 10,000 years ago? 4.5 billion years ago? 13.7 billion years ago? Yesterday? How would you know?

See, the thing is, for everything up to around 13.7 billion years ago, we can see a clear history of the universe. We don't know all of the ins-and-outs of it yet, but we see it nonetheless. To ask a deity to create the universe, or anything within it, at some point between now and then is to ask that deity to be a deceiver. I suspect most Christians would reject such a god on theological grounds.

But what about at the very beginning? Well, the fact of the matter is that we don't know when, if ever, there was one: what we do know is that there was an event some 13.7 billion years ago that wiped out all, or nearly all, information as to what came before. Sometimes this event is misleadingly referred to as the big bang, but is more accurately called cosmic inflation. But doesn't it really make sense to place God there, just before we can see what's going on? That seems to me to be simply giving up and admitting that you have no evidence whatsoever that any such thing exists, and thus simply placing it where no evidence is possible.

 

[AV1611VET]

See, the thing is, for everything up to around 13.7 billion years ago, we can see a clear history of the universe.

Is that why you guys have given us the age of the universe about 20 different times?

 

[Bombila]

This is what I was talking about. He doesn't make up stuff. I read some of his books. They make more sense to me. Whenever I read evolution stuff it always contradicts itself.

I'm sorry, but he does make stuff up, lies about a lot of things, and does not understand the science behind most of the things he talks about. He even slanders people he's never met, people who could never even meet him face to face, such as when he insists all the feathered dinosaur fossils in existence were faked by poor Chinese people making forty cents a year. This is a big fat slander, as it is in no way true, not a word of it.

Hovind writes in simple to understand language. I could write similarly and tell you all about the life cycle of the pixie angels in your garden. I could even say I was a creationist while I was at it and God told me to write the book. Would those qualities make it true? Of course not. Believing what Hovind says = being scammed. It happens, because some people have no scruples.

Evolution 'stuff' does not 'always contradict itself'. Educate yourself a little more and you'll find evolution science is very consistent and self correcting. When real scientists discover something that looks different, they try to figure out why, not lie about it.

 

[AV1611VET]

When real scientists discover something that looks different, they try to figure out why, not lie about it.

Perhaps he really believes it, Bombila?

I can say, from personal experience, that as much as I try to explain myself, I've been called a liar, deceiver, YEC, Last Thursdayist, Omphalos, idiot, troll, Poe, and a few things that I can't put into print.

 

[RealityCheck]

Perhaps he really believes it, Bombila?

I can say, from personal experience, that as much as I try to explain myself, I've been called a liar, deceiver, YEC, Last Thursdayist, Omphalos, idiot, troll, Poe, and a few things that I can't put into print.

Because most people can't believe you really believe what you claim to believe.

 

[Matthewj1985]

I will kind of agree with you here, although saying a Creationist is also a Bin Laden is like totally uncouth.
You have learned well to acknowledge the fact that most Christians are also ID evolutionists.
The man in this picture technically is not ugly; as an artist, I am a subject-matter expert. His problem is severe acne scarring and a general lack of facial cellulose/fatty tissue. Rectify those issues and a radical transformation in his appearance would take place.

FYI, he has also put on about 60 pounds since that picture.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because most people can't believe you really believe what you claim to believe.

Sounds like Someone I know.

 

[Matthewj1985]

1. People have different beliefs, including creationism. You shouldn't call people that unless they really deserve it. Not only is it wrong, it's unchristian.

2. The man, Ken Ham, is actually a very smart man who brings loads of evidence and some good points. You should not call him ugly, it's rude. Besides he's from Australia. It might be common over there to wear facial hair like that.

1. It is culturally to hold insane religious beliefs and have no one question you on them (see Mormonism) on the other hand in the realms of science and history (were statements can be proven and disproven), there are right answers and wrong answers. To claim that the earth is 6000 years old is scientifically wrong. To claim that the holocaust was made up by the Jews so they could get Israel is historically wrong. No matter how much someone believes that the Jews are just a sneaky Christ killing bunch, they are still wrong. Just like our friend MR. Ham.

2. Evidence? You mean the stuff that gets shot down by 1st year biology majors? How about the utter lack of any real scientific research for his brand of ID? MR. Ham is about a 4 on the intelligence scale, while PROFESSORS Ken Miller and Francis Collins are up around 9s. The absolute refusal to accept any and all testable scientific data because it does not mesh with a bronze age book speaks volumes about his intelligence. I mean would I be a smart guy if I thought planes didn't exist because they were not in the Koran?

 

[Matthewj1985]

This is what I was talking about. He doesn't make up stuff. I read some of his books. They make more sense to me. Whenever I read evolution stuff it always contradicts itself.

No he has no problem using faulty science and outright lies to sell you books. He is the televangelist for people who know nothing about science.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. It is culturally to hold insane religious beliefs and have no one question you on them (see Mormonism) on the other hand in the realms of science and history (were statements can be proven and disproven), there are right answers and wrong answers. To claim that the earth is 6000 years old is scientifically wrong. To claim that the holocaust was made up by the Jews so they could get Israel is historically wrong. No matter how much someone believes that the Jews are just a sneaky Christ killing bunch, they are still wrong. Just like our friend MR. Ham.

2. Evidence? You mean the stuff that gets shot down by 1st year biology majors? How about the utter lack of any real scientific research for his brand of ID? MR. Ham is about a 4 on the intelligence scale, while PROFESSORS Ken Miller and Francis Collins are up around 9s. The absolute refusal to accept any and all testable scientific data because it does not mesh with a bronze age book speaks volumes about his intelligence. I mean would I be a smart guy if I thought planes didn't exist because they were not in the Koran?

So what are you seeking then, Seeker?

 

[Matthewj1985]

I'm sorry, but he does make stuff up, lies about a lot of things, and does not understand the science behind most of the things he talks about. He even slanders people he's never met, people who could never even meet him face to face, such as when he insists all the feathered dinosaur fossils in existence were faked by poor Chinese people making forty cents a year. This is a big fat slander, as it is in no way true, not a word of it.

Hovind writes in simple to understand language. I could write similarly and tell you all about the life cycle of the pixie angels in your garden. I could even say I was a creationist while I was at it and God told me to write the book. Would those qualities make it true? Of course not. Believing what Hovind says = being scammed. It happens, because some people have no scruples.

Evolution 'stuff' does not 'always contradict itself'. Educate yourself a little more and you'll find evolution science is very consistent and self correcting. When real scientists discover something that looks different, they try to figure out why, not lie about it.

For some reason I keep thinking about Hovind trying to preach the evils of homosexuality to his 6'5" 300lb cell mate. Ain't Karma a.....well you know.

 

[Matthewj1985]

So what are you seeking then, Seeker?

Right now a 40 and a bag of chips. Later I will be seeking the truth but guys like you and HR insist on painting your fellow religionists as ignorant, close minded folks who love to insult those they don't agree with (last part doesn't apply to you, just HR). I am trying to mesh my religious faith with some simbalance of reason and logic, which right now is getting harder and harder.