Can Creationists justify not being Flat Earthers?

[Aman777]

With the Bible, we are told that it holds knowledge that people of the time could not have. Now we are being told that the Bible reflects their ignorance of the world. Which is it?

Both, since ancient men could NOT have known what God told us in Genesis. The problem is that Religion teaches that we should believe what ancient men THOUGHT the Bible was teaching, when in fact ONLY God could have known the true Scientific and Historic facts He told us of, thousands of years ago.

God hid His Truth from ancient men in order to assure that only by Faith in His Word could they be saved. In these last days He is revealing that truth which ONLY the people of the last days, with increased knowledge, could possibly understand. He told Daniel HOW He hid this truth.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

ie. God tells us He made 3 Heavens or Universes by making one on the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 and other Heavens on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 Ancient men were ignorant of a Multiverse but God knew. Those who continue to believe the views of ancient theologians continue to live in darkness of God's hidden Truth today. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Genesis 7:20 says "The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits." It doesn't say how high the mountains were. Mount Ararat, which the Ark came to rest on is 16,854′, which tells me the waters were above that.

Here are the verses from the KJV which has less paraphrasing than your version:

18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

See? In context, when the waters prevailed to a depth of 15 cubits, the mountains were covered. Beware modern versions of Scripture which add the thoughts of the men who altered what was actually written. Amen?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Here are the verses from the KJV which has less paraphrasing than your version:

18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

See? In context, when the waters prevailed to a depth of 15 cubits, the mountains were covered. Beware modern versions of Scripture which add the thoughts of the men who altered what was actually written. Amen?

I hardly think a vessile the size of this three leveled arc with all it's mass, the mass of the creatures within it and the supplies to last as long as they had in the thing would have even came off the ground in 22.5 feet of water. It said the arc was lifted up and born on the waters.

I would be more afraid of misinterpreting something that was written in a style that is no longer used today. Doing this instead of taking into account the complexity of the situation would be to me a major mistake. I know God can do anything but mountains remain mountains and anything less than 22.5 feet are not even hills. You are talking a berm, if anything. We are talking about a downpour of 960 hours here. This is all over the Earth and that isn't a joke.

 

[SkyWriting]

As we've seen in posts by me and others, there are dozens of verses that say it's flat - and they are not "figures of speech", they are things like descriptions of events

So I can prove the earth is stationary just like this? Awesome!

This is from Stanford. Undergraduate Student Cost Per Year Tuition & Fees: In-State: $43,683

Most people know that the Sun "rises in the east and sets in the west". However, most people don't realize that is a generalization. Actually, the Sun only rises due east and sets due west on 2 days of the year -- the spring and fall equinoxes! On other days, the Sun rises either north or south of "due east" and sets north or south of "due west."
Each day the rising and setting points change slightly. At the summer solstice, the Sun rises as far to the northeast as it ever does, and sets as far to the northwest. Every day after that, the Sun rises a tiny bit further south.

At the fall equinox, the Sun rises due east and sets due west. It continues on it's journey southward until, at the winter solstice, the Sun rises are far to the south as it ever does, and sets as far to the southwest.
Many, if not most, prehistoric cultures tracked these rising and settings points with great detail. If they had jagged mountains along the horizon, the exact points could be readily remembered. Without a suitably interesting horizon, standing stones could be arranged to line up with the various rising and setting points. Or, tree poles could replace the standing stones. Or, rock cairns could be used.


83.01.13: Solar Greenhouses - Yale University
(The total cost of attendance at Yale for 2015-2016 is $65,725, which includes tuition ($47,600), room ($8,200), board ($6,400), and books and personal expenses ($3,525).)
www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/.../83.01.13.x.html

The sun rises in the east, follows an arc through the southern sky, and sets in the west. The sun travels a different path in the winter than in summer, thus solar radiation falls on the earth�s surfaces (and on your greenhouse) at different angles during each season (Figure 2). During the cold part of the year the Earth�s tilt causes the sun to appear low in the southern sky, rather than overhead as in summer. Since the sun rises and sets sky the southern sky, east and west walls can see very little sunlight in the dead of winter.

Harvard University | Faculty of Arts And Sciences | Division of Science

For guidance they have nothing to go on save variations in wind speed and direction and fluctuations in temperature as the sun rises and sets.


There. According to Yale, Harvard and Stanford,
clearly using technical scientific details and not
"figures of speech"
the earth is stationary and the sun circles it.
Proven beyond a doubt.

 

[SkyWriting]

I hardly think a vessile the size of this three leveled arc with all it's mass, the mass of the creatures within it and the supplies to last as long as they had in the thing would have even came off the ground in 22.5 feet of water. It said the arc was lifted up and born on the waters.

Most animals sleep in the dark. The ark had no windows.
Likely the few animals God brought to Noah were selected
just for the purpose of re-populating the planet and they
hibernated during the flood.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Most animals sleep in the dark. The ark had no windows.
Likely the few animals God brought to Noah were selected
just for the purpose of re-populating the planet and they
hibernated during the flood.

My friend, this does not addressing the issue I brought foreword. I tried to find out if the width would compensate for the mass to allow such a massive vesicle to actually float in so shallow a water and in fact prove your take on this, but I lack the math skills. I tried using an ocean liner but what I found was that the more passengers there were the deeper in the water it sat.

As far as hand picked animals. It shouldn't matter how hand picked they are since two elephants are two elephants. I hardly think they were dwarfed. Two of each unclean and 7 of every clean animals are a lot of animals and then you have to take into account the food and water stores, as well.

 

[Aman777]

I hardly think a vessile the size of this three leveled arc with all it's mass, the mass of the creatures within it and the supplies to last as long as they had in the thing would have even came off the ground in 22.5 feet of water. It said the arc was lifted up and born on the waters.

1. There could have been fewer than 100 creatures on board with Noah.
2. Were the creatures babies?
3. How do you know the shape of the bottom of the boat? Was it Flat?
4. What is "gopher wood" since there is none on Planet Earth?
5. Since the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth told us this, was He lying? Careful.

*** I would be more afraid of misinterpreting something that was written in a style that is no longer used today. Doing this instead of taking into account the complexity of the situation would be to me a major mistake. I know God can do anything but mountains remain mountains and anything less than 22.5 feet are not even hills. You are talking a berm, if anything. We are talking about a downpour of 960 hours here. This is all over the Earth and that isn't a joke.

Our Earth has NEVER suffered a Global Flood and such thinking is UnScriptural since it was Adam's Earth, which was much smaller than the present Earth, which was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:6 I'm not afraid of believing what the Holy Spirit told us. Why are you?

 

[dysert]

1. There could have been fewer than 100 creatures on board with Noah.
2. Were the creatures babies?
3. How do you know the shape of the bottom of the boat? Was it Flat?
4. What is "gopher wood" since there is none on Planet Earth?
5. Since the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth told us this, was He lying? Careful.

*** I would be more afraid of misinterpreting something that was written in a style that is no longer used today. Doing this instead of taking into account the complexity of the situation would be to me a major mistake. I know God can do anything but mountains remain mountains and anything less than 22.5 feet are not even hills. You are talking a berm, if anything. We are talking about a downpour of 960 hours here. This is all over the Earth and that isn't a joke.

Our Earth has NEVER suffered a Global Flood and such thinking is UnScriptural since it was Adam's Earth, which was much smaller than the present Earth, which was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:6 I'm not afraid of believing what the Holy Spirit told us. Why are you?

How do you know that "Adam's Earth" was much smaller than ours?

Are you saying, based on 2 Pet. 3:6, that "Adam's Earth" was totally destroyed and a brand new earth (ours) was created from nothing? Is this supported in Scripture?

 

[Aman777]

My friend, this does not addressing the issue I brought foreword. I tried to find out if the width would compensate for the mass to allow such a massive vesicle to actually float in so shallow a water and in fact prove your take on this, but I lack the math skills. I tried using an ocean liner but what I found was that the more passengers there were the deeper in the water it sat.

As far as hand picked animals. It shouldn't matter how hand picked they are since two elephants are two elephants. I hardly think they were dwarfed. Two of each unclean and 7 of every clean animals are a lot of animals and then you have to take into account the food and water stores, as well.

Your confusion is caused by the theology of ancient men who had NO idea HOW many creatures were aboard the Ark. You falsely assume that Noah brought every animal on Earth today, including Elephants, since you also falsely assume that it was our Earth which was destroyed in the flood. The Ark arrived in Lake Van, Turkey, in the mountains of Ararat, INSIDE the firmament or solid boundary of Adam's world, which protected Adam's Earth from the water which surrounded it. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

How do you know that "Adam's Earth" was much smaller than ours?

Are you saying, based on 2 Pet. 3:6, that "Adam's Earth" was totally destroyed and a brand new earth (ours) was created from nothing? Is this supported in Scripture?

Adam's firmament arrived in Lake Van, Turkey 11k years ago. The Lake is only 75 miles wide and 1500 feet deep, which shows that the boundary of Adam's world was much smaller than our world. Our Earth was already here and had been for Billions of years before the Ark arrived.

I don't say that Adam's world was totally destroyed but God's Holy Word does, when it speaks of the Scoffers of the last days:

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed utterly)

Are you a Scoffer of the last days? Or have you heard of another world that THEN WAS?

This knowledge completely REFUTES the False ToE since Humans (descendants of Adam) did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of ANY other creature. Humans were first made on another world and arrived on Planet Earth some 11k years ago exactly where and when God told us.

 

[dysert]

Adam's firmament arrived in Lake Van, Turkey 11k years ago. The Lake is only 75 miles wide and 1500 feet deep, which shows that the boundary of Adam's world was much smaller than our world. Our Earth was already here and had been for Billions of years before the Ark arrived.

I don't say that Adam's world was totally destroyed but God's Holy Word does, when it speaks of the Scoffers of the last days:

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed utterly)

Are you a Scoffer of the last days? Or have you heard of another world that THEN WAS?

This knowledge completely REFUTES the False ToE since Humans (descendants of Adam) did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of ANY other creature. Humans were first made on another world and arrived on Planet Earth some 11k years ago exactly where and when God told us.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Are you saying that God created our earth and that Adam's world was a subset of the earth? A dome-like structure on our earth that was destroyed by the Flood?

Where does it talk about humans being made on another world and transported to earth?

 

[Aman777]

I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Are you saying that God created our earth and that Adam's world was a subset of the earth? A dome-like structure on our earth that was destroyed by the Flood?

Where does it talk about humans being made on another world and transported to earth?

Adam's firmament, which God called "Heaven" was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 Other HeavenS were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 This includes the present Cosmos and the Third Heaven of ll Corinthians 12:2 which is also called the New Heaven and Earth in Revelation 21:1.

Adam's world sank in Lake Van, Turkey some 11k years ago releasing the 450 ft Ark into the Lake in the mountains of Ararat and HISTORY records this event here:

http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html

Notice the big Lake just above the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers which begin in Northern Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Human civilization on this Planet. Noah's grandsons married and produced children with the prehistoric people who had been on our Planet for Millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived. Human civilization can be traced to this event.

 

[Loudmouth]

Both,

It can't be both. They are mutually exclusive.

 

[Aman777]

Both, since ancient men could NOT have known what God told us in Genesis. The problem is that Religion teaches that we should believe what ancient men THOUGHT the Bible was teaching, when in fact ONLY God could have known the true Scientific and Historic facts He told us of, thousands of years ago.

It can't be both. They are mutually exclusive.

How? Ancient men were ignorant of the latest scientific facts shown in Genesis which could ONLY have been known by God, Himself, thousands of years ago. We are just now beginning to understand what God hid from mankind until the last days before Jesus returns to our Earth. It's proof of God which can be tested, examined, and determined to be True or False. Amen?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Your confusion is caused by the theology of ancient men who had NO idea HOW many creatures were aboard the Ark. You falsely assume that Noah brought every animal on Earth today, including Elephants, since you also falsely assume that it was our Earth which was destroyed in the flood. The Ark arrived in Lake Van, Turkey, in the mountains of Ararat, INSIDE the firmament or solid boundary of Adam's world, which protected Adam's Earth from the water which surrounded it. Amen?

please don't call me confused because I don't support your ideals especially after you completely ignored the issues I brought foreword.

As for the amount of animals that were brought into the Ark the Bible states that God brought them to the Arc so please don't try telling me that it was a bunch of ancient men, since God himself choose the man to do it. Though I would like your explanation of where the multitude of animals we have all over the world came from if not for the ARC, since the whole world in your opinion was destroyed in that flood?

You can get all upset all you want to and call everything I say false but that does not mean your correct in anything you claim.

 

[Loudmouth]

Both, since ancient men could NOT have known what God told us in Genesis.

They could not know that the Earth is flat?

 

[Aman777]

please don't call me confused because I don't support your ideals especially after you completely ignored the issues I brought foreword.

As for the amount of animals that were brought into the Ark the Bible states that God brought them to the Arc so please don't try telling me that it was a bunch of ancient men, since God himself choose the man to do it. Though I would like your explanation of where the multitude of animals we have all over the world came from if not for the ARC, since the whole world in your opinion was destroyed in that flood?

You can get all upset all you want to and call everything I say false but that does not mean your correct in anything you claim.

God told Noah to bring two of every "sort" on the Ark. Gen 6:19-20 Lord God told Noah to bring two of the unclean and seven of the clean "sort". Gen 7:14 Noah brought two of every sort of Their kinds (Trinity kinds) and those which the Lord God told him, or two of every sort of His (Lord God) unclean kinds and seven of the clean sort. Do you know how many sorts were His kind and how many sorts were Their kinds? If not, then you are guessing at the number of creatures on the Ark.

This is caused by the false views of ancient men, NOT your's, which has been adopted by tradition of men which falsely thought that Adam's world and the present world were the same. Adam's world was totally and utterly destroyed in the Flood, ll Peter 3:6 and the Ark came to our Planet which has NEVER been destroyed in a Global Flood. Our Earth is a Rock and is covered with water, but does NOT dissolve in water. Adam's world was totally different but ancient men didn't know that. When Noah arrived on our Planet, there were already Millions of prehistoric people here along with Millions of other creatures.

I don't get upset since you believe the Flood story by Faith, which is HOW God wanted you to believe. I seek to understand Genesis by finding the agreement of Scripture, Science and History because in these last days, God will reveal His Truth to ALL people, including those who do NOT have the Gift of Faith which you have been given. God Bless you

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon ALL flesh:

 

[Aman777]

They could not know that the Earth is flat?

The descendants of Noah THOUGHT they were still on Adam's Flat Earth, so they tried to build a Tower to Heaven and escape our world, like Noah did from Adam's flat Earth. Gen 11:4

The reason they wanted to escape our Earth is because they knew that God would scatter them among the prehistoric people, who they considered savages, since they did NOT have the unique superior intelligence which ONLY God and Adam and his descendants have. Gen 3:22 They were Ignorant of the fact that escape from our Earth was NOT the same as Noah's escape from Adam's flat Earth. Amen?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

God told Noah to bring two of every "sort" on the Ark. Gen 6:19-20 Lord God told Noah to bring two of the unclean and seven of the clean "sort". Gen 7:14 Noah brought two of every sort of Their kinds (Trinity kinds) and those which the Lord God told him, or two of every sort of His (Lord God) unclean kinds and seven of the clean sort. Do you know how many sorts were His kind and how many sorts were Their kinds? If not, then you are guessing at the number of creatures on the Ark.

I am not guessing anything since God created all the animals in the days of creation before Adam was forced out of Eden and in order for those creatures to have survived until today they would have had to have been in the arc.

[This is caused by the false views of ancient men, NOT your's, which has been adopted by tradition of men which falsely thought that Adam's world and the present world were the same. Adam's world was totally and utterly destroyed in the Flood, ll Peter 3:6 and the Ark came to our Planet which has NEVER been destroyed in a Global Flood. Our Earth is a Rock and is covered with water, but does NOT dissolve in water. Adam's world was totally different but ancient men didn't know that. When Noah arrived on our Planet, there were already Millions of prehistoric people here along with Millions of other creatures.

These men who wrote The Bible were inspired by God. Are you telling me that you somehow have some special knowledge that they weren't privy to when God spoke to them and not to you.

I don't get upset since you believe the Flood story by Faith, which is HOW God wanted you to believe.

What do you mean by this? God wanted you to believe sounds like you are saying that he deceived us.+

 

[Loudmouth]

The descendants of Noah THOUGHT they were still on Adam's Flat Earth,

Adam's Earth was flat and not spherical?