Can Christians Work for Income on the Sabbath Day?

[SabbathBlessings]

So, believing in Jesus is the work under this Law (Law of Christ or Spirit), it's a process, and once you reach this stage (of " believing" in Jesus) then you'll received the "Spirit". The Spirit then "caused" you to fulfilled All God's commandments including the 10.

So if one is breaking one of the Ten Commandments, what does that mean?

 

[Aaron112]

So if one is breaking one of the Ten Commandments, what does that mean?

Not their view possibly,
but Jesus says if someone breaks one of the commandments, he breaks them all.
This is of course the English language such as it is.
I believe in Hebrew, Aramaic and in Greek the clarity and understanding is more accurate in some ways.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not their view possibly,
but Jesus says if someone breaks one of the commandments, he breaks them all.

Yes, and how sad so many believers do not believe in these very Words we are to live by that Jesus said, not to break or teach others to break the least commandments. Since there is no such thing as a least commandment, He means them all.

 

[Aaron112]

Yes, and how sad so many believers do not believe in these very Words we are to live by that Jesus said, not to break or teach others to break the least commandments. Since there is no such thing as a least commandment, He means them all.

Since Jesus says "least", there is some meaning and importance He means.
And just noticed "great" as well....

Matthew 5:19 - BibleGateway.com​

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Since Jesus says "least", there is some meaning and importance He means.
And just noticed "great" as well....

Matthew 5:19 - BibleGateway.com​

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Yes, many take this passage as I can follow the commandments I want as I will still be "least" in heaven, but I do not think least means one will be there- comparing that to James 2:10-12, Mat 7:21-23, Mat 15:3-9, 1 John 2:3-6 Rev 14:12, Rev 22:14-15

 

[trophy33]

Nobody here is following the full Mosaic Law with even the least of its commandments.

Therefore we all believe that "everything is accomplished".

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

[pasifika]

So if one is breaking one of the Ten Commandments, what does that mean?

Under the letter it simply means you're a sinner, in the same way it means you also don't believe in Jesus Christ. I.e break one means you break All commandments..James

on the flip side if you keep this command.."Believe and Love one another" (under law of Spirit) means you keep All Commandments including 10.

What I'm saying is once God dwells in us through His "Spirit" then we live according to His Will and we keep All His commandments because of Him who lives in US.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Under the letter it simply means you're a sinner, in the same way it means you also don't believe in Jesus Christ.

You didn't answer the question- you said if in Christ we would be obeying the Ten Commandments. What does it mean if we are breaking the Ten Commandments then. Romans 8:1-8 answers this very question.

All have sinned, so we are all under the law and living in grace. Grace doesn't remove the law, much like when a police officer decides to give one a warning for speeding, does that warning mean the law was removed and we can disobey the speed limit. Nope! Either does grace. Romans 6:1-2 More importantly, when we love Jesus, we would want to obey all that He asks. Disobedience is more of a heart issue than anything else, which is why Jesus wants us changed from the inside out Mat 5:19-30.

 

[pasifika]

You didn't answer the question- you said if in Christ we would be obeying the Ten Commandments. What does it mean if we are breaking the Ten Commandments then. Romans 8:1-8 answers this very question.

All have sinned, so we are all under the law and living in grace. Grace doesn't remove the law, much like when a police officer decides to give one a warning for speeding, does that warning mean the law was removed and we can disobey the speed limit. Nope! Either does grace. Romans 6:1-2 More importantly, when we love Jesus, we would want to obey all that He asks. Disobedience is more of a heart issue than anything else, which is why Jesus wants us changed from the inside out Mat 5:19-30.

Yes, if Christ/Spirit lives in me i obey All commandments including 10. If I break any commandments it means Christ is Not living in Me.

Break one same as break All. Keep this command "Believe and Love one another" you keep All including 10

As I have mentioned before, the Spirit is Not given under the Letter or OC law But by the Law of the Spirit, so there is No way anyone can keep any commandments by way of the "letter" or OC law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, if Christ/Spirit lives in me i obey All commandments including 10. If I break any commandments it means Christ is Not living in Me.

Break one same as break All. Keep this command "Believe and Love one another" you keep All including 10

As I have mentioned before, the Spirit is Not given under the Letter or OC law But by the Law of the Spirit, so there is No way we can keep any commandments by way of the "letter" or OC law.

So if one "lies" from the "letter" of the OC law or "commits adultery" from the "letter" of the OC what does that mean?

 

[pasifika]

So if one "lies" from the "letter" of the OC law or "commits adultery" from the "letter" of the OC what does that mean?

Anyone including myself who breaks any of God's commandments is a sinner.

 

[trophy33]

Anyone including myself who breaks any of God's commandments is a sinner.

Better said, anyone who breaks any God's commandments given to him is a sinner.

We are not sinners if we do not care about the commandments given to Adam, to Noah, to Israel or even to apostles, if they are not for us, too.

 

[HIM]

Lastly since you mentioned grammar and syntax, let's hit some more of it:

1. In Heb8:8 the Text says, "He (YHWH) says"
   1. Then from Heb8:8 through Heb8:13 the Text quotes what YHWH says to Israel in Jer31:31-34.
   2. Then Heb8:13 begins within "in that He says...." and points back to the beginning of this section in Heb8:8 where the Text says, "He (YHWH) says"
      1. This is an articular infinitive with a guiding preposition. This is the kind of thing Greek is helpful with.
         1. There are only 3 main choices here to tell us what the author is saying, so it's not an overwhelming task, and there is some overlap in the choices.
         2. I'll translate it all 3 ways:
            1. As a result [of what YHWH] says "[a] new [covenant], [He] has made the first [covenant - Mosaic Law Covenant] obsolete...
            2. When [YHWH] says "[a] new [covenant], [He] has made the first [covenant - Mosaic Law Covenant] obsolete...
            3. By means of [YHWH] saying "[a] new [covenant], [He] has made the first [covenant - Mosaic Law Covenant] obsolete...
            4. Pick your favorite. In the end they all tell us something that we can use and it's clear what we're told - the old Mosaic Law Covenant was made obsolete, and God made it obsolete. The author's point is this is what Jer31:31-34 tells us.

I'm just going to post the English here and let it instruct you. I'll also add one piece of detail to the extensive detail I provided on the grammar and syntax of this verse before. BTW, you're not dealing with or questioning my work in such grammatical detail. So, I assume exegesis of grammatical and syntactical details from the Greek Text are not your interest.

NKJ Heb8:13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

• The author here is telling us the first (covenant - in context the Mosaic Covenant) has been made obsolete. This is the Greek perfect tense. It's pointing backwards and the translation of the verb here is fine. I provided detail of the first clause that shows when or how YHWH made the Mosaic Covenant obsolete in the past. When YHWH said NEW, YHWH made the Mosaic Covenant Obsolete.
• The rest simply says the time of its actual vanishing is soon.
• I don't know your eschatological views, but contrary to your wording and respectful request, I will say AD70 anyway.
  • The preposition translated as "ready" means near, a close point in time. It's words like this that are argued extensively by those who see AD70 as the big transition in history. I'm one of them at this time.

There is no Mosaic covenant only God's. Ready to vanish is not vanished. As long as sin is in the world and Church the written law in respect to what sin is, the law will be needed to keep them in check.

1Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

The simple answer is "context."

Why not assimilate how the Text speaks of such things. What Covenant do you think Hebrews is talking about that was replaced with the New Covenant in Christ. What Law do you think appointed the Levitical Priesthood. When God instituted the Covenant with Moses and the people Israel, and gave them His Law, do you not see the Law of Moses being the terms of the Covenant with Moses?

This letter was written to people that would have little to know question what Law and Covenant was being discussed.

You've pointed out Heb9 to me for your purposes. What do you see in Heb9:18-20. Do you see reference to the first covenant, Moses, the precepts of law? Again, what covenant and what law? Moses is mentioned 10 times in Hebrews and Heb3 tells us Jesus is greater than Moses. Jesus and the Prophet greater than Moses - Jesus Christ - is pretty much what Hebrews is all about. In the end it's about the Mosaic Covenant and the Law of Moses being replaced by the New Covenant mediated by Jesus Christ. Paul will tell us about the Law of Christ to complete the picture for us.

Yes context. Like below where God says it is His Covenant. Let's not what is not.

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

I'm just going to post the English here and let it instruct you. I'll also add one piece of detail to the extensive detail I provided on the grammar and syntax of this verse before. BTW, you're not dealing with or questioning my work in such grammatical detail. So, I assume exegesis of grammatical and syntactical details from the Greek Text are not your interest.

No, it's just that you haven't really said anything that needed addressed that couldn't be in respect to the level most are at which is the translations.
Ready to vanish away is a bit of issue for what you share. And your AD 70 solution for that is a bit subjective. The New Covenant gives us the new heart and mind which is of God. In Having His Spirit we all can know God as He wants intimately, and sin will no longer be brought to His mind because we are not doing it due to our new Spirit which is His. There is only a partial fulfillment now. If you don't know that then please explain why you are here. Because as per the Covenant all will know Him from the least unto the greatest.
Sin in His Church and the world hinders that and His message from going forth in it's entirety. Because of this there is still a need for the written law in respect to sin. Because through the law is the knowledge of sin. Hence Paul saying it is for the ungodly and profane and not for the righteous and holy.

 

[HIM]

Better said, anyone who breaks any God's commandments given to him is a sinner.

We are not sinners if we do not care about the commandments given to Adam, to Noah, to Israel or even to apostles, if they are not for us, too.

No those who live that are much worse.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

1Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

[GDL]

There is no Mosaic covenant only God's. Ready to vanish is not vanished. As long as sin is in the world and Church the written law in respect to what sin is, the law will be needed to keep them in check.

1Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


Yes context. Like below where God says it is His Covenant. Let's not what is not.

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.



No, it's just that you haven't really said anything that needed addressed that couldn't be in respect to the level most are at which is the translations.
Ready to vanish away is a bit of issue for what you share. And your AD 70 solution for that is a bit subjective. The New Covenant gives us the new heart and mind which is of God. In Having His Spirit we all can know God as He wants intimately, and sin will no longer be brought to His mind because we are not doing it due to our new Spirit which is His. There is only a partial fulfillment now. If you don't know that then please explain why you are here. Because as per the Covenant all will know Him from the least unto the greatest.
Sin in His Church and the world hinders that and His message from going forth in it's entirety. Because of this there is still a need for the written law in respect to sin. Because through the law is the knowledge of sin. Hence Paul saying it is for the ungodly and profane and not for the righteous and holy.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[trophy33]

No those who live that are much worse.

I am not sure what you mean.

 

[HIM]

I am not sure what you mean.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

1Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

[trophy33]

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

1Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Therefore?

 

[HIM]

Therefore?

What you shared is wrong because

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

1Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

[trophy33]

What you shared is wrong because

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

1Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Try to use few sentences to present some argumentation.