Can Calvinists explain this verse?

[jimmyjimmy]

I am not flaming. You know very well what salvation is. You refuse to answer a simple question because it exposes the errors in your dogma.

If you have any honor you would answer this question:

Do now admit that faith alone is insufficient for salvation?

Is something other than faith in Christ's redemptive work on our behalf necessary for retiring our relationship with the Father? NO! Absolutely not!

 

[Thursday]

If that
If that didn't answer your question, then I apologize. I'm not understanding what you are asking. And I've asked for clarification. So I'm not sure what else I can do.

Do you claim that salvation and justification are the same thing?

 

[Thursday]

Is something other than faith in Christ's redemptive work on our behalf necessary for retiring our relationship with the Father? NO! Absolutely not!

Faith without works is dead. Will dead faith save you?

 

[Hammster]

Do you claim that salvation and justification are the same thing?

Regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification are all parts and can be referred to as salvation, depending on context.

That.

 

[Hammster]

Do you claim that salvation and justification are the same thing?

A faith that saves isn't dead.

 

[Thursday]

That.

Part of justification. An arm is part of a man, but it isn't a man. Once again you spin because you don't want to answer a simple question that exposes the errors in your dogma.

 

[Thursday]

A faith that saves isn't dead.

So then you agree that works must accompany faith for a man to be saved, and therefore faith alone does not save.

 

[Hammster]

Part of justification. An arm is part of a man, but it isn't a man. Once again you spin because you don't want to answer a simple question that exposes the errors in your dogma.

What spin? You keep making these claims. I honestly am trying to answer, but I fear I'm just not understanding what you are after.

 

[Hammster]

So then you agree that works must accompany faith for a man to be saved, and therefore faith alone does not save.

I agree with James that works will accompany faith if the faith is real.

 

[Thursday]

I agree with James that works will accompany faith if the faith is real.

Works are necessary for salvation, then. Why can't you say it?

 

[Thursday]

What spin? You keep making these claims. I honestly am trying to answer, but I fear I'm just not understanding what you are after.

You won't answer a basic question but instead post irrelevant diversions.

The answer is yes or no, but you won't answer.

Do you agree that faith alone is insufficient for salvation?

 

[sdowney717]

Works are necessary for salvation, then. Why can't you say it?

Because they are not necessary.
Good fruit is necessary, but fruit is not works.
Fruit is what God produces in us, good works are something we do.

Clearly we are saved by God's grace freely given to us through the work of Christ's redemption by His shed blood, an atonement by His blood.

Romans 3:23-28New King James Version (NKJV)
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

 

[Hammster]

Works are necessary for salvation, then. Why can't you say it?

Works will accompany salvation. Ephesians 2:10.

 

[Hammster]

You won't answer a basic question but instead post irrelevant diversions.

The answer is yes or no, but you won't answer.

Do you agree that faith alone is insufficient for salvation?

I disagree, as I've said over and over. I'm not sure why you think I've been diverting. Romans 5:1 has been referenced a few times.

 

[Thursday]

Because they are not necessary.
Good fruit is necessary, but fruit is not works.
Fruit is what God produces in us, good works are something we do.

Clearly we are saved by God's grace freely given to us through the work of Christ's redemption by His shed blood, an atonement by His blood.

Romans 3:23-28New King James Version (NKJV)
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

More spinning. Anything we do is a work. Our actions, good or bad, are works for which we will be judged.

Paul is referring to the Jewish Law in the passage above, not obedience to Jesus and doing good works while avoiding sin.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life

 

[Thursday]

I disagree, as I've said over and over. I'm not sure why you think I've been diverting. Romans 5:1 has been referenced a few times.

Then you disagree with Calvinism. Sdowney above upholds the Calvinist view.

 

[Hammster]

Then you disagree with Calvinism. Sdowney above upholds the Calvinist view.

You'll have to explain how you came to this conclusion.

 

[sdowney717]

More spinning. Anything we do is a work. Our actions, good or bad, are works for which we will be judged.

Paul is referring to the Jewish Law in the passage above, not obedience to Jesus and doing good works while avoiding sin.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life

Not judged though as regarding loss or gain of eternal life, our works will be judged and rewarded accordingly.

Why dont you believe Jesus Christ when He says this?
John 5
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

If the above is most assuredly the truth, then your adding on requirements inconsistent with Christ's words to us. Will you change your mind now?

 

[Thursday]

Not judged though as regarding loss or gain of eternal life, our works will be judged and rewarded accordingly.

Why dont you believe Jesus Christ when He says this?
John 5
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

If the above is most assuredly the truth, then your adding on requirements inconsistent with Christ's words to us. Will you change your mind now?

Jesus doesn't say that this is all that is necessary.

Matt 7
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Matt 7
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[sdowney717]

Jesus doesn't say that this is all that is necessary.

Matt 7
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Matt 7
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Those who do God's will? Are those who obey His command to repent and believe in Christ.
Acts 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

Your pitting Christ's words against Christ's words and only exposing your ignorance, not any truth different from what Jesus tells us in John 5, you are adding on to what He said, baiting His own words against Himself.
.
Your changing the meaning of these other passages to be against what Christ says in John 5, when they are in total agreement. If you build your house on the ROCK, your building on the foundation of Christ whom you believe in. Those who believe in christ are born of God and do keep His commandments, this is the NC in action.
Hebrews 8
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

The OC ministry of condemnation is gone, yet you still believe in it, all the do this and do that or you are cursed to hellfire.