Can a Christian lose his/her salvation?

[TheSeabass]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Here, again, clear teaching from Scripture that a person's works do not affect their eternal redemption by God. As I have said many times on this site, our works do not save us and they do not keep us saved. The apostle Paul agrees. One's works can be entirely lost to the fire of God's testing and one can still be saved. This totally demolishes the notion that one's works are vital to the retention of their salvation. Good works are the fruit of salvation not the lifeblood of it.

"Works" as used in this context refers to converts, (1 Corinthians 9:1) Paul refers to his Corinthian coverts as his 'work' in the Lord. If on judgment day Paul's work > convert is judged to be saved, Paul will receive a reward. But if on judgment day Paul's work > convert is judged to be lost, burned, Paul himself will not be lost (as long as he remains faithful 1 Cor 9:27) but Paul will have a sense of lost over that convert of his that was lost. As some of Paul's converts in Galatia had left the NT gospel, (Gal 1:6-7) fallen from grace (Gal 5:4) and Paul had a sense of loss for them saying "I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

 

[TheSeabass]

np

 

[TheSeabass]

Not at all. I was saying that God has no obligation to save anyone. It isn't about OSAS or the opposite view. The idea of God being obliged to either save someone or not save them is just a punk argument.

But you did not answer if God has an obligation to save the Christian who becomes unfaithful? If God does have an obligation then OSAS would be true. If not, then OSAS is not true.

 

[TheSeabass]

If Lord Jesus started my salvation, He will finish it.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The word "our" was added by translators and should not be there. The article "the" is in the Greek therefore Jesus is the author and finisher of "the faith". The phrase the faith" refers to the body of information contained in the NT, as Paul preached "the faith" Gal 1:23, he preached that body of NT information. Therefore Christ is the author and finisher of the faith, that body of NT information.

 

[Albion]

But you did not answer if God has an obligation to save the Christian who becomes unfaithful? .

I think I did. He has no "obligation" to save anyone. That would include both faithful and unfaithful Christians.

 

[TheSeabass]

The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced that lose-able salvation is a lie from Satan -- meant to embitter people with legalism and worry.

But it was Stan in the garden of Eden that started the lie 'ye shall surely not die' when they could.

 

[TheSeabass]

I think I did. He has no "obligation" to save anyone. That would include both faithful and unfaithful Christians.

Since God has no obligation to save the unfaithful Christian, the unfaithful will be lost, if he does not repent. No OSAS.

 

[Albion]

But it was Stan in the garden of Eden that started the lie 'ye shall surely not die' when they could.

Stan? We're on a first name basis with the Prince of Darkness, are we??

 

[Albion]

Since God has no obligation to save the unfaithful Christian, the unfaithful will be lost, if he does not repent. No OSAS.

No, just no "obligation."

 

[TheSeabass]

That situation with the Galations ocurred BEFORE the New Covenant came into effect, through the shed blood of Jesus on a cross. See the following for another statement by Jesus:

Jn.10:27 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc]">[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”


Quasar92

Who are the sheep of v28 that shall never perish? Christ's sheep, the group 'Christian'.
Who makes up Christ's sheep? Verse 27 the one's that have and faithfully maintain a hearing and following of Christ.

Therefore as long as the Christian continues to hear and follow Christ he will be of the sheep of verse 28. If one quits hearing and following Christ he will not be of the sheep of verse 28.

No OSAS in Jn 10:27,28.

 

[TheSeabass]

No, just no "obligation."

THen what verse says God will save the disobedient, rebellious impenitent Christian?

 

[TheSeabass]

Stan? We're on a first name basis with the Prince of Darkness, are we??

Actually Stanley, most just call him Stan for short.

 

[Quasar92]

What is your take on free will of the believer?
Does a believer have free will after they accept Christ?
Or does God only regenerate those He knows will be faithful to Him?
What would be the point in giving us commands within His Word and warnings if God knew were going to be faithful? It doesn't add up.

If you were to skip back a chapter in Hebrews, it says this,

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." (Hebrews 3:13).

Why tell me as a believer to not harden my heart by the deceitfulness of sin if such a thing were not possible?

It says in verse 14,

"For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;." (Hebrews 3:14).

In verse 14, it does not say, we are made partakers of Christ because God regenerated us and or elected us to be love slaves to His will to do good works. It says we are made partakers of Christ IF.... IF....IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.

Verse 12 says,

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." (Hebrews 3:12).

How can I depart from the living God if such a thing were not possible?
Again, it just seems like you are not wanting to see these kinds of verses.


...

My views pertaining to Eternal Security and of free will can be summed up in the ollowing:

Rom.8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, whoi]">[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."


Quasar92

 

[Albion]

THen what verse says God will save the disobedient, rebellious impenitent Christian?

None. And I just answered that question in a point blank way. Why, after at least five times of me making a simple point, are you having such a hard time with this?

 

[TheSeabass]

My views pertaining to Eternal Security and of free will can be summed up in the ollowing:

Rom.8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, whoi]">[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."


Quasar92

This about the group Christian (those who love Him) and not about individuals apart from the group.
One must be in and faithfully remain in this foreknow group to be justified and glorified.

 

[TheSeabass]

None. Why, after at least five times of me making a simple point, are you having such a hard time with this?

So if God has no obligation to save the rebellious Christian and no verse says God will save the rebellious, impenitent Christian, then where does the OSAS idea come from? It's not coming from the bible.

 

[Albion]

So if God has no obligation to save the rebellious Christian and no verse says God will save the rebellious, impenitent Christian, then where does the OSAS idea come from? It's not coming from the bible.

This is all about what God WILL do, not because he has any obligation to do it. You used the word obligation.

 

[Quasar92]

Peace be with you.

Your Salvation theory theology sounds great.

The only problem lies with:

God will judge you for your deeds whether good or bad.

You will need to wait for death to occur to find out the validity of your Salvation theory theology.

There is no need to judge yourself saved. God will judge for you after death.

It is an automatic procedure we all go through.

God bless you.

The BEMA judgment of Christ, is not to determine our salvation, but rather, that which pertains to rewards we have earned, if any, or those we my have los, as recorded in the following:

1 Cor.3:10 "By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."

2 Cor.5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body," whether good or bad.



Quasar92

 

[AntiVillain]

The question becomes how do you answer God when you stand before Him and He asks why you told people OSAS when in fact it is wrong and because of your words some terrible people did things that were evil (as christians) thinking they would still go to heaven.

On the contrary, how do you answer Him when asked about burning so many souls out with your 24/7 rule-keeping and ultimately driving them away from Him?

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." -- Matthew 23:13 (KJV)

I see it the other way around. Satan wants us to be complacent. The OSAS viewpoint leads to complacency. Complacently leads to "Oops, I did it again! No worries, I'm saved!" However see Ezekiel 18...

I disagree; the idea of lose-able salvation was what eventually burned me out to the point of complacency -- always felt like God was on standby with a bottle of Divine Wite-Out over my name in The Book Of Life.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I disagree; the idea of lose-able salvation was what eventually burned me out to the point of complacency -- always felt like God was on standby with a bottle of Divine Wite-Out over my name in The Book Of Life.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So then a lot more people are deceived into beleiving they are saved,
than get saved and later lose their salvation.
Either way, they perish.