Can a Christian lose his/her salvation?

[Handmaid for Jesus]

The word "our" was added by translators and should not be there. The article "the" is in the Greek therefore Jesus is the author and finisher of "the faith". The phrase the faith" refers to the body of information contained in the NT, as Paul preached "the faith" Gal 1:23, he preached that body of NT information. Therefore Christ is the author and finisher of the faith, that body of NT information.

LOL! Isn't it funny how people who disagree with scripture want to say the translators should have or should not have translated the word the way they did.

 

[Quasar92]

Amen, I sure agree but how does that lead you to believe that we can discard everything Jesus said before His resurrection? All of it is just for the Jews because it is before the New Covenant came into effect!?!

No, my friend I don't believe any such thing. All comes in the Scriptures in its proper order of events for fulfillment. Jesus came in His first advent, preached the Gospel, the people His mission was directed to and for, [Israel - Mt.15:24] rejected Him, except for the minority who believed in Him. He was falsely accused, sent to a cross, shed His blood and died; resurrected on the third day. Was seen for 40 days after His resurrection by more than 500 witnesses. Ascended into heaven and ten days later, the Holy Spirit arrived, in Acts 2:1-3, and the New Covenant together with the Church age began. All believers, before and after Jesus death, fall under God's free gift of Grace.

Non-believing Israel will not accept Jesus as their Messiah, or fall under the New Covenant of Grace, until Jesus second coming, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5.


Quasar92

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

THen what verse says God will save the disobedient, rebellious impenitent Christian?

God has already saved the Christian. He does not have to do it again. God's gifts and callings are irrevocable .

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

This about the group Christian (those who love Him) and not about individuals apart from the group.
One must be in and faithfully remain in this foreknow group to be justified and glorified.

IMHO this is cultish thinking.When a child of our Father meets another child of our Father they instantly recognize each other. Why? Because they are united to each other by the Holy Ghost. Family recognizes family. It is a supernatural KNOWING.. But, if one cannot see our Father and Jesus as supernatural, and the work started in us ,and, is keeping us, as supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, no amount of explanation will help.

 

[TheSeabass]

This is all about what God WILL do, not because he has any obligation to do it. You used the word obligation.

Then show from the NT gospel where God "WILL" save the rebellious, impenitent Christian.

 

[Albion]

Why?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

LOL! Isn't it funny how people who disagree with scripture want to say the translators should have or should not have translated the word the way they did.

No.
Billions of souls are destroyed because of that.
Forever.

 

[TheSeabass]

LOL! Isn't it funny how people who disagree with scripture want to say the translators should have or should not have translated the word the way they did.

Check it for yourself and you will find what I did with "our" NOT being in the original Greek. How can one form a theology around a word that is not there? Much like Charismatics that form a 'ecstatic utterance" theology around the word "unknown" in 1 Cor 14:2,4,13 when that word is not in the original language.

So it is not a matter of translation but a matter that the word simply is NOT there in the original Greek.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So it is not a matter of translation but a matter that the word simply is NOT there in the original Greek.

Amein.
A lot of beliefs today, and through the last centuries,
are not there , anyplace, in Scripture.
Yet people still carry on as if they were there....

 

[TheSeabass]

God has already saved the Christian. He does not have to do it again. God's gifts and callings are irrevocable .

God had never had a 'gift or calling' of unconditional salvation, so a 'gift or calling' that never occurred cannot be irrevocable.

Rom 11:28 "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."
Rom 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."



In the context of Romans 11:29 God had cast off his once chosen nation of Israel due to their disobedience not obeying Christ as the Messiah. (No OSAS for them). God grafted in the Gentiles.

Verse 28 concerning the gospel they (the Jews that refused to believe Christ) are enemies for your (Gentiles) sake. For the Jews rejection of Christ and the gospel brought the gospel to the Gentiles that much sooner (Acts 13:46). The Jews that rejected Christ were 'enemies' to the believing Gentiles.
Touching the election, they (the unbelieving Jews) can still be of the elect due to God's love for the fathers' (Abraham, Isaac,Jacob) sake. So even though God cast of the nation of Israel, God did not make salvation an impossibility for them.

Verse 29 "for" an explanatory preposition giving explanation as to why the unbelieving Jews still can be saved even though God cast them off.

"....the gifts and calling of God are without repentance". Back in Genesis God promised that through Abraham all nations would be blessed, this "all nations" includes the nation of Israel and the gospel is for every nation, every creature (Great Commission) which also includes the nation of Israel. But if God cast the nation of Israel off to the point that salvation was not attainable for them, then God would have to repent (change) and revoke what He said to Abraham and revoke the Great Commission. But since God still left election open for the Jews to be saved through Christ (even though the majority rejected Christ) God is keeping what He said and not changing it...God's offer for salvation still stands for all men and that is not going to be revoked.

Nothing remotely about the man made idea of OSAS here at all.

 

[TheSeabass]

Amein.
A lot of beliefs today, and through the last centuries,
are not there , anyplace, in Scripture.
Yet people still carry on as if they were there....

As OSAS.

 

[Quasar92]

Who are the sheep of v28 that shall never perish? Christ's sheep, the group 'Christian'.
Who makes up Christ's sheep? Verse 27 the one's that have and faithfully maintain a hearing and following of Christ.

Therefore as long as the Christian continues to hear and follow Christ he will be of the sheep of verse 28. If one quits hearing and following Christ he will not be of the sheep of verse 28.

No OSAS in Jn 10:27,28.

According to the Scriptures, prophecy does not go into effect until it is fulilled, as was the case with vs 28.


Quasar92

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God's offer for salvation still stands for all men and that is not going to be revoked.

So everyone reading today still might be saved,
even if they weren't before ! YHWH Willing....

Nothing remotely about the man made idea of OSAS here at all.

They who believe* that(osas) can be (or already are) saved also, just not necessarily permanent ....... if someone does remain saved (highly recommended!!!!!!!!!!!!!) , then it is permanent,
but if they fall away, there is great sorrow at their loss.

*along with the false belief of osas, there are many other potentially false beliefs, and false confidence, which makes it more insidious and more fatal and more dangerous.

 

[TheSeabass]

IMHO this is cultish thinking.When a child of our Father meets another child of our Father they instantly recognize each other. Why? Because they are united to each other by the Holy Ghost. Family recognizes family. It is a supernatural KNOWING.. But, if one cannot see our Father and Jesus as supernatural, and the work started in us ,and, is keeping us, as supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, no amount of explanation will help.

You can call it cultish or whatever but before the world began God foreknew a GROUP would be saved yet God does not decide which individuals will be in that group but left it up to the individual to choose to be in the group. There is no salvation outside this group, the body of Christ. That means one must become part of this group and faithfully remain in this group if one desires to be justified, glorified. IF you still do not believe this, can you show me an exmple from under Christ's NT gospel of a person who was UNCONDITIONALLY saved/justified but OUTSIDE the group Christian, OUTSIDE the body of Christ?

 

[TheSeabass]

Why?

If you can show from the NT gospel where God "WILL" save the rebellious, impenitent Christian, then you MIGHT have a case for OSAS. Until then, the bible does teach all unfaithful Christians will be lost if they remain impenitent.

 

[Quasar92]

THen what verse says God will save the disobedient, rebellious impenitent Christian?

Where, may I ask, do you find what you refer to as a Christian who is disobedient? By what means is that person a Christian in the first place, since God is the only one who knows whether he/she is or not?


Quasar92

 

[TheSeabass]

According to the Scriptures, prophecy does not go into effect until it is fulilled, as was the case with vs 28.


Quasar92

What prophecy of John 10:27-28 is not fulfilled?

Regardless one cannot be of the sheep of verse 28 without a faithful present tense hearing and following of Christ per v 27. So we have both sides of the salvation equation:

1) faithfulness to Christ and His word Revelation 2:10; 1 Cor 4:1-2
2) God's faithfulness to the group Christian, Christ's sheep

Another passage when OSASers pull a verse out of context in regards to #2 but ignore #1.

Phil 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

It is ASSUMED Paul's confidence God would continue a good work in them was based upon OSAS.

Yet verse 5 says "For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;" Says they faithfully remained in the gospel from the first say until now which is the same as they continued to hear and follow Christ from the first day until now. Their faithfulness in remaining in the gospel is the basis of Paul's confidence of God's continued work in them.... not OSAS.

There were those in Galatia that did not faithfully remain in the gospel (Galatians 1:6-7) unlike those in Philippi. And unlike in Philippi Paul does NOT say anything about God continuing a good work in those in Galatia that were unfaithful and did not continue to hear and follow Christ. Instead Paul told those unfaithful Galatians they had fallen from grace Gal 5:4.

 

[TheSeabass]

Where, may I ask, do you find what you refer to as a Christian who is disobedient? By what means is that person a Christian in the first place, since God is the only one who knows whether he/she is or not?


Quasar92

1 Peter 2:7 (KJV) "Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,"

John 3:36 (ASV) "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Note how the verb "believe" in these two verses is CONTRASTED to "disobedient"/"obeyeth not". Therefore believing is a form of obedience. So if a Christian quits believing, casts aside his faith (Hebrews 3:12; 1 Timothy 4:1) he enters a state of disobedience/obeyeth not. This is just one form of disobedience the Christian can commit. And if he remains impenitently in this lost state of disobedience he will be lost.

Also, God does not leave men in the dark as to whether or not one is saved or not, ie, a Christian or not.

 

[Albion]

If you can show from the NT gospel where God "WILL" save the rebellious, impenitent Christian, then you MIGHT have a case for OSAS.

As usual, the vociferous opponents of "OSAS" don't know what it is about. No one around here that I know of has been claiming that OSAS pertains to people such as you are describing here. It's a complete strawman argument.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

God had never had a 'gift or calling' of unconditional salvation, so a 'gift or calling' that never occurred cannot be irrevocable.

Rom 11:28 "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."
Rom 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."



In the context of Romans 11:29 God had cast of his once chosen nation of Israel due to their disobedience not obeying Christ as the Messiah. (No OSAS for them). God grafted in the Gentiles.

Verse 28 concerning the gospel they (the Jews that refused to believe Christ) are enemies for your (Gentiles) sake. For the Jews rejection of Christ and the gospel brought the gospel to the Gentiles that much sooner (Acts 13:46). The Jews that rejected Christ were 'enemies' to the believing Gentiles.
Touching the election, they (the unbelieving Jews) can still be of the elect due to God's love for the fathers' (Abraham, Isaac,Jacob) sake. So even though God cast of the nation of Israel, God did not make salvation an impossibility for them.

Verse 29 "for" an explanatory preposition giving explanation as to why the unbelieving Jews still can be saved even though God cast them off.

"....the gifts and calling of God are without repentance". Back in Genesis God promised that through Abraham all nations would be blessed, this "all nations" includes the nation of Israel and the gospel is for every nation, every creature (Great Commission) which also includes the nation of Israel. But if God cast the nation of Israel off to the point that salvation was not attainable for them, then God would have to repent (change) and revoke what He said to Abraham and revoke the Great Commission. But since God still left election open for the Jews to be saved through Christ (even though the majority rejected Christ) God is keeping what He said and not changing it...God's offer for salvation still stands for all men and that is not going to be revoked.

Nothing remotely about the man made idea of OSAS here at all.

Some of Israel did not receive Him (Lord Jesus). But our Father's plan for that nation has not been canceled.I don't know how He will accomplish His will, but I trust that His perfect will will be accomplished. As far as my salvation, I know Him in whom I have placed my trust.No amount of humanism/self righteousness that you guys are preaching is going to make me doubt Him. I know that Lord Jesus is my Savior, and my Lord, my God. The Bible teaches us that all of our righteousness is as a filthy rag. ( a nasty stinky, menstrul cloth). I trust His righteousness that has been imputed to me at my salvation. It is God working His will in my by the Holy Ghost. I know that I am saved by the witness of two, the Word and the Holy Ghost. Neither of them have lied.God has not given me the Spirit of fear.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Neither have I received a spirit of bondage which it seems you guys are forcing on to those who do not know who they are in Christ. Shame on you,for you do not preach the truth of the gospel.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Lord Jesus said the Holy Ghost will remain in us forever. Christ in me, keeping me, guiding me, teaching me through His word,is my hope of glory. You guys with your works righteousness, have at it.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: