hes sworn to secrecy
like all Masons the brotherhood comes before all else including Chirst(I'm assuming but I bet I'm right)
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
To Rev Wayne,
Ok thats ok then; let me just double check, prayer to Father Son and Holy spirit instead of the great architect of the universe?
If thats who the great architect of the universe is then why not God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, why use great architect of the universe?
Do you take any oaths? If so can you give an example?
To your first question, there is no "instead of."To Rev Wayne,
Ok that’s ok then; let me just double check, prayer to Father Son and Holy spirit instead of the great architect of the universe?
If that’s who the great architect of the universe is then why not God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, why use great architect of the universe?
Or I'm right, and antimasons are in EXTREME hyper-delusion. I can support every word of what I stated in that post.you are either in EXTREME denial, or hopelessly brainwashed by your "brothers" or your a liar
Well, I alreayd showed you there are other options, but what's in your mind I cannot remedy, other than tell you the truth that the antimasons won't, for the simple reason, it might cut into their profits to admit otherwise.there are no other options in my mind and I will pray for you
You "established" nothing, because you were trying to make that link by citing Alice Bailey, whose material is not Masonic, and by plain and simple definition anyone can see was never a Mason.I was establishing the link between the new age and freemasonry
they are bound at the hip
You ought to listen to yourself once in awhile, you talk of nonsense. H.P. Blavatsky was never made "an honorary Mason." The award she got was from C0-Masonry, an irregular group. Like I said before, comparing mainstream Masonry to the pseudo-Masonic organizations is like comparing Christianity to unorthodox or cult groups--they may claim legitimacy, but it is a legitimacy of their own creation, and in their own imagination.oh and H.P. Blavatsky was made an honoary Mason because of her book "The Secret Doctrine" which influenced Hitler concerning the superior Aryan blood
you are playing with serious fire my friend
not only are you a part of this organization but you are trying to convince fellow Christians that being a part of it is ok
and its not
I promise you that God is NOT happy about that and I just hope you figure it out before its too late and that you are not too hopelessly brainwashed
God is not happy with me about a lot of things as well(like all of us) but I don't pretend that my sins are honorable and good
thats a big no no in the eyes of the almighty(and it ain't the eye on the top of the pyramid)
Then you assume incorrectly. Duty to God is considered the primary duty of a Mason.like all Masons the brotherhood comes before all else including Chirst(I'm assuming but I bet I'm right)
As these and other similar doctrines and duties form a part of the very first Charge which is delivered to the incipient Freemason, it may be useful to take a brief view of them, as they apply to God, our neighbour, and ourselves; as they form an exemplification of the moral law which was communicated to our Grand Master Moses from the mountain where the deity had previously manifested himself in a Burning Bush. The first Table of this law describes our duty to God; and the second our duty to our neighbour and ourselves. Let us then see how intimately these duties correspond with the teaching of our noble order.
Freemasonry directs us to put our sole trust in the One God who dwelleth in the highest heavens, under the several names, in consecutive degrees, of Great Architect Grand Geometrician of the Universe, and Most High or Jehovah. And teaches the true brother that "every blade of grass which covers the field, every flower which blows, and every insect that wings its way in the bounds of expanded space, proves the existence of a FIRST CAUSE, and yields pleasure to the intelligent mind. (George Oliver, The Symbol of Glory, Shewing the Object and End of Freemasonry, p. 90)
hes sworn to secrecy
like all Masons the brotherhood comes before all else including Chirst(I'm assuming but I bet I'm right)
They do that with any organistaion that doesnt require a belief, but I thought someone said freemasonry requires a belief in god/God?
How? For Islam there is only one god Allah, but for Christians there is only one God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I mean either the people dont have the faith you are saying they have, or freemasonry is tricking them.
I did.Nobody said anything about an "error."
Do you not understand what ‘instead of’ means? GAOTU, Great Architect of the Universe isn’t the same as God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, indeed GAOTU to a Muslim would mean Allah rather than God the Father Son and Holy Spirit.To your first question, there is no "instead of."
Because it is not Biblical to deceive people into thinking GAOTU can be other gods.To the second, why not? It's certainly biblical, as I already showed; and there's certainly nothing there to prohibit it, so what could be problematic about it?
Are you a scout then or shall we discuss the thread topic? As I said they do that with any organisation that doesn’t require a belief, but I thought someone said freemasonry requires a belief in god/God?So do the Scouts.
If it requires a belief in any god its an ungodly organisation as it represents no god.It does require such a belief, just life the Boy Scouts require such a belief.
So what is the point of having a deception of GAOTU?No argument there.
So what is the point of requiring a belief if the organisation is thus requiring false belief?Why is this so hard for you? A Christian who is a Mason will believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. A Muslim would have faith in Allah.
Then the error was yours.Nobody said anything about an "error."
I did.
I'm not a Muslim. And to the Muslim "God" would ALSO be Allah. Shall we as the church, then, abandon use of the word "God" simply because of what it can mean to a Muslim?GAOTU, Great Architect of the Universe isn’t the same as God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, indeed GAOTU to a Muslim would mean Allah rather than God the Father Son and Holy Spirit.
Freemasonry directs us to put our sole trust in the One God who dwelleth in the highest heavens, under the several names, in consecutive degrees, of Great Architect — Grand Geometrician of the Universe, and Most High or Jehovah.
the Grand Architect and Contriver of the Universe; or He that was taken up to the topmost pinnacle of the Holy Temple.
Because it is not Biblical to deceive people into thinking GAOTU can be other gods.
Are you a scout then or shall we discuss the thread topic?
And as I said, so do the scouts. From a BSA statement:morningstar;54292124]As I said they do that with any organisation that doesn’t require a belief, but I thought someone said freemasonry requires a belief in god/God?
The Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America maintain that no boy can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing his obligation to God. Scouting is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. The Boy Scouts of America does not define what constitutes belief in God or the practice of religion. Membership in a religious organization is not required.
There is not one person with whom I have any discourse, in any lodge I have attended, who does not know that I am a Christian pastor. There is nothing "forbidden" about such witness to fellow lodge members. What you refer to is a mutual agreement by which Masons do not discuss matters of religion or politics during the time lodge is in session.Just tell them the truth of Jesus Christ.. oh yes I forgot Freemasonry doesn't allow that does it?
I demonstrated it was yours.Then the error was yours.
That’s fair enough but the question remains, as I understand it the Freemasons refer to Great Architect of the Universe rather than God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit,No need for the condescending tone.
If GAOTU isnt Allah, “god”, then why is Freemasonry allowing Muslims to think it is?I'm not a Muslim. And to the Muslim "God" would ALSO be Allah.
Well you have mixed the church with Freemasonry, the church doesn’t need to change anything as it refers to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the one who created the universe.Shall we as the church, then, abandon use of the word "God" simply because of what it can mean to a Muslim?
Well that’s wrong unless you are saying Allah, who doesn’t have a son = God who is Father Son and Holy Spirit. So no it cant be one God.Freemasonry directs us to put our sole trust in the One God who dwelleth in the highest heavens, under the several names, in consecutive degrees, of Great Architect — Grand Geometrician of the Universe, and Most High or Jehovah.
So if the indication is God, why are Muslims and members of other religions in the dark on this?Just because Masonry allows individuals to interpret it differently if they wish, does not change the fact that everywhere you look for specific indications in Masonry concerning GAOTU, they all point to the God of the Bible, nor have I found any exceptions. In fact, one of the earliest references that may be found of GAOTU (c. 1725) says He is:
Which is the deception, as if it is God and the person thinks it is another god they don’t actually believe in God.No "deception" involved at all. A Mason is simply asked if he believes in God.
I demonstrated it was yours.
But if the truth isnt based on what the boy scouts do, who cares? … or at least ignore the error the scouts make as well.
If GAOTU isnt Allah, “god”, then why is Freemasonry allowing Muslims to think it is?
It needs to be stated, first of all, that I was referring to instances of Christians/the church referring to Him by using the simple reference "God," which is extremely common. I know of no scenario, publicized or orally within the course of what takes place in church, where every single reference to God is made by referring to "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." So I consider that a false construct upon which to base your return comment on this.Well you have mixed the church with Freemasonry, the church doesn’t need to change anything as it refers to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the one who created the universe.
Well that’s wrong unless you are saying Allah, who doesn’t have a son = God who is Father Son and Holy Spirit.
Actually, all Masonry affirms is that there is one Creator. Like I stated earlier, Masonry's concepts are more metaphysical or philosophical in nature. Look at their concept of "Architect" in the same light as you would look at Aristotle's "Unmoved Mover" or Aquinas' "Uncaused Cause." Those terms are philosophical and do not get fleshed out into any one theological system which we refer to as a religion. Yet a Muslim studying philosophy will see these philosophical terms and interpret them according to his Islamic faith.So no it cant be one God.
So if the indication is God, why are Muslims and members of other religions in the dark on this?
Which is the deception, as if it is God and the person thinks it is another god they don’t actually believe in God.
You cited the scouts, the error is explained concerning freemasonry, if the scouts are the same as you claim, then they are also in error.Now, either explain what "error" the boy scouts make, or drop the subject, because your pointless "told you so" kind of posting accomplishes nothing.
Nope ,I wrote “Allah ‘god’” not “God”, Christianity isnt allowing it and the question was regarding Freemasonry,Likewise, if "God" isn't Allah, then why is Christianity "allowing" Muslims to think He is (as if it could "stop" them)?
To Rev Wayne,
You cited the scouts, the error is explained concerning freemasonry, if the scouts are the same as you claim, then they are also in error.
Well, Freemasonry isn't "allowing" it either, since politics and religion are not debatable during lodge. And the answer WAS regarding Freemasonry. It's called analogy.Nope ,I wrote Allah god not God, Christianity isnt allowing it and the question was regarding Freemasonry,
If nothing else, at least you show your true colors. I've had this discussion with the same person under different guises, more times than I can count, apparently this is either one more in the list, or a very capable copycat. And always the same, make a vague statement, when it gets challenged for clarification, make an even vaguer comeback, and when it becomes clear that the vagueness is not going to be allowed to stand unquestioned, take the first opportunity when an analogy is presented, to make the specious accusation of being off-topic.If you arent prepared to address the actual question the we cant really debate, we are just talking at each other about two different things.
For some unknown reason you keep referring to what I have been explaining as though I haven’t explained it. Not sure how the discussion can continue if you cant see the questions and points others are putting to you.Well, you got one part right, I cited the Scouts. But so far, despite several posts and a significant amount of time gone by, for some reason you have not posted anything to clarify your vague comment about an error.
Brilliant deduction, Sherlock. Now if we can only bring you the rest of the way across that threshold of enlightenment to see that there is one very obvious reason I keep referring to it that way:For some unknown reason you keep referring to what I have been explaining as though I havent explained it.
Exactly! Glad to see you're coming around. So help us out by actually POSTING the point you keep dodging, so we CAN "see" it. Can't see what's never been there to this point.Not sure how the discussion can continue if you cant see the questions and points others are putting to you.
Well no, I wrote Allah god and you wrote God GAOTU can be seen by people of other faiths as their god, so hence freemasonry is a deception in that respect alone. [/QUOTE][quoe] Well, Freemasonry isn't "allowing" it either, since politics and religion are not debatable during lodge. And the answer WAS regarding Freemasonry. It's called analogy.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?