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Can a Christian be a Freemason???

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brightmorningstar

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To Rev Wayne,
Well yes I do claim Freemasonry is somehow guilty of deception because the term can be interpreted otherwise by people of other faiths; that’s exactly what I am saying.
then it would also stand true that Christianity would have to be considered "guilty of deception" because the term "God" which finds common usage in Christianity, can also be interpreted differently by those of other faiths.
No idea what you mean by the term ‘God’ finds common usage in Christianity. For Christianity there is known one God, who is Father Son and Holy Spirit, other religions don’t recognise Him.


So there is no analogy, it’s a deception.

My point and question to you was why call God the Father Son and Holy Spirit who is the creator of the universe ‘GATOU’ when even in your admittance Muslims will see that as Allah rather than God.
 
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Rev Wayne

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No idea what you mean by the term ‘God’ finds common usage in Christianity. For Christianity there is known one God, who is Father Son and Holy Spirit, other religions don’t recognise Him.
Surely you're joking. You can find examples of how "God" finds common usage in Christianity, by examining any theological discussion. And just to show it, I chose to do this by Google search, and picking at random a theological treatise. What I wound up with is from the American Journal of Theology, Vol. 14, p. 197-98:

Over against the world and all that is in the world, including man and all that is in man, and all that is the product of man's highest activities, intellectual and, in the noblest sense the word may bear, spiritual, there after all stands God; and he—he himself not our thought about him or our beliefs concerning him, but he himself—is the object of our highest knowledge. And to know him is not merely the highest exercise of the human intellect; it is the indispensable complement of the circle of human science, which, without the knowledge of God, is fatally incomplete. It was not without reason that Augustine renounced the knowledge of all else but God and the soul; and that Calvin declares the knowledge of God and ourselves the sum of all useful knowledge. Without the knowledge of God it is not too much to say we know nothing rightly, so that the renunciation of the knowledge of God carries with it renunciation of all right knowledge. It is this knowledge of God which is designated by the appropriate term "theology," and it, as the science of God, stands over against all other sciences, each having its own object, determining for each its own peculiar subject matter.
Theology being, thus, the systematized knowledge of God, the determining question which divides theologies concerns the sources from which this knowledge of God is derived. It may be agreed, indeed, that the sole source of all possible knowledge of God is revelation. God is a person; and a person is known only as he expresses himself, which is as much as to say only as he makes himself known, reveals himself. But this agreement is only formal. So soon as it is asked how God reveals himself, theology is set over against theology in ineradicable opposition. The hinge on which the controversy particularly turns is the question whether God has revealed himself only in works, or also in word: ultimately whether he has made himself known only in the natural or also in a supernatural revelation.

Fourteen times "God" is mentioned, and not once "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," anywhere in these two paragraphs. To hear you tell it, the only time God is ever mentioned in Christian thinking, whether in church, in a theological discussion such as this one just cited, or any other venue, it is always "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." But the truth is, that is just not done, and quite frankly, it would get pretty cumbersome if it were true, rendering the above comments as:

Over against the world and all that is in the world, including man and all that is in man, and all that is the product of man's highest activities, intellectual and, in the noblest sense the word may bear, spiritual, there after all stands Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and he—he himself not our thought about him or our beliefs concerning him, but he himself—is the object of our highest knowledge. And to know him is not merely the highest exercise of the human intellect; it is the indispensable complement of the circle of human science, which, without the knowledge of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is fatally incomplete. It was not without reason that Augustine renounced the knowledge of all else but Father, Son, and Holy Spiritand the soul; and that Calvin declares the knowledge of Father, Son, and Holy Spiritand ourselves the sum of all useful knowledge. Without the knowledge of Father, Son, and Holy Spiritit is not too much to say we know nothing rightly, so that the renunciation of the knowledge of Father, Son, and Holy Spiritcarries with it renunciation of all right knowledge. It is this knowledge of Father, Son, and Holy Spiritwhich is designated by the appropriate term "theology," and it, as the science of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, stands over against all other sciences, each having its own object, determining for each its own peculiar subject matter.
Theology being, thus, the systematized knowledge of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the determining question which divides theologies concerns the sources from which this knowledge of Father, Son, and Holy Spiritis derived. It may be agreed, indeed, that the sole source of all possible knowledge of Father, Son, and Holy Spiritis revelation. Father, Son, and Holy Spiritis a person; and a person is known only as he expresses himself, which is as much as to say only as he makes himself known, reveals himself. But this agreement is only formal. So soon as it is asked how Father, Son, and Holy Spiritreveals himself, theology is set over against theology in ineradicable opposition. The hinge on which the controversy particularly turns is the question whether Father, Son, and Holy Spirithas revealed himself only in works, or also in word: ultimately whether he has made himself known only in the natural or also in a supernatural revelation.


So instead, Christian usage often utilizes the simple generic "God" rather than the fuller expression of our belief in the Trinity. But in doing so, they employ a term which an English speaker who professes a faith other than Christianity, may well use to refer to God when speaking of their own religion. In fact, in the very language from which we get our word "God," the Greek, Qeos is itself a generic word also. The general pattern of the Septuagint translation of the OT into Greek, was to translate "Elohim" with the generic Qeos, and "Yahweh" with the generic "kurios," or "Lord." Yet the Septuagint translators did not seem to be deterred by the fact that they were using a word which to a Greek person could actually be interpreted to mean Zeus.

My point and question to you was why call God the Father Son and Holy Spirit who is the creator of the universe ‘GATOU’ when even in your admittance Muslims will see that as Allah rather than God.

And my response to you was, and still is, I have nothing to do with how a Muslim views God. And my further response to you has been, to question why you do not criticize the Christian use of the word "God," which also "CAN" be taken by a Muslim as Allah.

So there is no analogy, it’s a deception.

The term GAOTU is a descriptive phrase of who God is, and it was actually coined by, and borrowed from, John Calvin. I have also shown you that it is biblical, because the apostle Paul used the term "architektw" in reference to God in 1 Corinthians 3:10, and the writer of Hebrews said in chapter 11 of God, that He is the "architect" of the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem.

The argument could be made, of course, that those who wrote these things had a specific God in mind, the God of the Bible. And, of course, I have cited for you the proof that the writers who introduced the term into Masonry ALSO had the God of the Bible in mind. First, George Oliver:

Freemasonry directs us to put our sole trust in the One God who dwelleth in the highest heavens, under the several names, in consecutive degrees, of Great Architect — Grand Geometrician of the Universe, and Most High or Jehovah.

And Samuel Prichard, in Masonry Dissected, possibly the earliest notation of the use of the term in Masonry:

the Grand Architect and Contriver of the Universe; or He that was taken up to the topmost pinnacle of the Holy Temple.

Masonry's "Architect," then, is a reference to the God of the Bible, plain and simple. In one Masonic source cited, it was described as Jehovah, in another it was described in terms that can refer only to Jesus Christ. No amount of continued denial of it on your part will change that.

Any "deception" in the matter, therefore, is not on the part of Masonry, but rather, on the part of this hypothetical Muslim you keep putting before us. You cannot equate HIS concepts with Masonry's concept, for Masonry makes no attribution whatsoever to God as "Allah"; and in the few instances in which Masonry's "Architect" actually IS referenced in any manner directly attributable to any specific God, those references are, unanimously, references to the God of the Bible. Nor may you make any such claim, that even the mere use of the term is blameable, for in principle, what you claimed about the use of the term (that it is open to interpretation differently by someone of another faith), is true also of Christianity's often-used simple generic term, "God."

I'm sorry, but because of all the above reasons, your accusation fails, because it simply cannot be supported--not that you've even tried to, other than your own stated personal opinions on the matter.

You are perfectly free, if you feel you can do so, to cite from any Masonic source you may be able to locate, to show differently. And good luck. In several years of searching for such references, I have not seen even the first one.
 
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brightmorningstar

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To Rev Wayne,
Thank you for the explanation of what you meant by term, but disciples of Jesus Christ know God as Father Son and Holy Spirit, so did Paul and so did the writer of Hebrews.
The question remains GAOTU can be seen by people of other religions as their god. This is what you pointed out. If Freemasonry were a Christian organisation it wouldnt be having GAOTU but God the Father Son and Holy Spirit who created the universe. Freemasonry has no reason to require members have faith in 'a god'. Freemasonry is a deception.
 
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If it requires a belief in any god its an ungodly organisation as it represents no god.

The organization doesn't "represent" any god. It simply requires that its members have a belief in god, just like the Boy Scouts require that their members believe in god.

So what is the point of having a deception of GAOTU?

There is no "deception." Masons make the requirement of a belief in God very clear. The following is from Wikipedia, but you could find similiar information on other websites:

"Candidates for regular Freemasonry are required to declare a belief in a Supreme Being. However, the candidate is not asked to expand on, or explain, his interpretation of Supreme Being. The discussion of politics and religion is forbidden within a Masonic Lodge, in part so a Mason will not be placed in the situation of having to justify his personal interpretation. Thus, reference to the Supreme Being will mean the Christian Trinity to a Christian Mason, Allah to a Muslim Mason, Para Brahman to a Hindu Mason, etc. And while most Freemasons would take the view that the term Supreme Being equates to God, others may hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term. In the ritual, the Supreme Being is referred to as the Great Architect of the Universe, which alludes to the use of architectural symbolism within Freemasonry."

Sounds clear to me. Where is the deception that you claim exists?

So what is the point of requiring a belief if the organisation is thus requiring false belief?

It doesn't require a "false belief." For a Christian a belief in God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost meets the requirement. Are you saying such a belief is false.

Just tell them the truth of Jesus Christ.. oh yes I forgot Freemasonry doesn't allow that does it?

Because, just like the Boy Scouts, are open to people of all religious faiths.
 
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O.F.F.

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The question remains GAOTU can be seen by people of other religions as their god. This is what you pointed out. If Freemasonry were a Christian organisation it wouldnt be having GAOTU but God the Father Son and Holy Spirit who created the universe. Freemasonry has no reason to require members have faith in 'a god'. Freemasonry is a deception.

You are absolutely right! Freemasonry may have "borrowed" the term/phrase GAOTU, but they define it very differently. In other words, John Calvin's definition of GAOTU (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is not the same as Freemasonry's definition of GAOTU, which is in effect "any deity of choice" as long as you believe he/it/she is the creator of the universe.

Take it from a former Mason, if any Mason claims that Jesus Christ of the Bible is the GAOTU of Freemasonry, he is lying. No matter how much he insist that it is it doesn't mean a thing Masonically speaking. It may mean that to him, but not in Freemasonry. As one Ex-Mason for Jesus put it, "Mormons pray to their "Jesus" as well, but their Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer. That is not my Jesus; and that is not the Jesus of the Christian faith. Mormonism invented its own Jesus, Freemasonry invented its own GAOTU."

Sincerely O.F.F. not from
 
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brightmorningstar

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To Archivist,
The organization doesn't "represent" any god.
I have been told GAOTU is supposed to be God thought GAOTU doesn’t specify God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
It simply requires that its members have a belief in god, just like the Boy Scouts require that their members believe in god.
Why would it require its members to believe in a god? If as Rev Wayne is saying, GAOTU is God it wouldn’t be in line with Christ’s NT teaching to let people assume it might not be.

There is no "deception." Masons make the requirement of a belief in God very clear.
But as explained above they don’t they require belief in a god, not the God.

You seem to forget that the supreme being is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, if Freemasonry asks some to believe in a god but called the God, it’s a deception.
And while most Freemasons would take the view that the term Supreme Being equates to God, others may hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term.
So other don’t believe in God then.
 
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brightmorningstar

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To O.F.F,
God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is derived from the scriptures and what the Son has said, Calvin just believed it.
The question remains GAOTU can be seen by people of other religions as their god. This is what you pointed out. If Freemasonry were a Christian organisation it wouldnt be having GAOTU but God the Father Son and Holy Spirit who created the universe. Freemasonry has no reason to require members have faith in 'a god'. Freemasonry is a deception.
You are absolutely right! Freemasonry may have "borrowed" the term/phrase GAOTU, but they define it very differently. In other words, John Calvin's definition of GAOTU (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is not the same as Freemasonry's definition of GAOTU, which is in effect "any deity of choice" as long as you believe he/it/she is the creator of the universe.

Take it from a former Mason, if any Mason claims that Jesus Christ of the Bible is the GAOTU of Freemasonry, he is lying. No matter how much he insist that it is it doesn't mean a thing Masonically speaking. It may mean that to him, but not in Freemasonry. As one Ex-Mason for Jesus put it, "Mormons pray to their "Jesus" as well, but their Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer. That is not my Jesus; and that is not the Jesus of the Christian faith. Mormonism invented its own Jesus, Freemasonry invented its own GAOTU."

Sincerely O.F.F. not from

So Freemaosnry is a deception as GAOTU can be seen by people of other religions as their god. If Freemasonry were a Christian organisation it wouldnt be having GAOTU but God the Father Son and Holy Spirit who created the universe so there was no deceiving who god is. Freemasonry has no reason to require members have faith in 'a god'. Freemasonry is a deception.
 
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O.F.F.

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So Freemaosnry is a deception as GAOTU can be seen by people of other religions as their god. If Freemasonry were a Christian organisation it wouldnt be having GAOTU but God the Father Son and Holy Spirit who created the universe so there was no deceiving who god is. Freemasonry has no reason to require members have faith in 'a god'. Freemasonry is a deception.

Like I said, you are absolutely right!
 
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Archivist

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I have been told GAOTU is supposed to be God thought GAOTU doesn’t specify God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is really no sense in discussing this if you aren't going to read what I write. I specifically stated in my last post "Thus, reference to the Supreme Being will mean the Christian Trinity to a Christian Mason, Allah to a Muslim Mason, Para Brahman to a Hindu Mason, etc. And while most Freemasons would take the view that the term Supreme Being equates to God, others may hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term. In the ritual, the Supreme Being is referred to as the Great Architect of the Universe, which alludes to the use of architectural symbolism within Freemasonry." The Masons don't hold themselves out to be a Christian organization, so there is no deception as you keep claiming.

Why would it require its members to believe in a god?

Because it is a private organization and it can set its own membership requirements, just like the Boy Scouts.

If as Rev Wayne is saying, GAOTU is God it wouldn’t be in line with Christ’s NT teaching to let people assume it might not be.

Again, please read what I am writing. Thus, reference to the Supreme Being will mean the Christian Trinity to a Christian Mason, Allah to a Muslim Mason, Para Brahman to a Hindu Mason, etc.

But as explained above they don’t they require belief in a god, not the God.

They require a belief in god.

You seem to forget that the supreme being is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, if Freemasonry asks some to believe in a god but called the God, it’s a deception. So other don’t believe in God then.

The supreme being is God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost to those of us who are Christians. However, god isn't our Christian God to people of other faiths. Their supreme being would be Allah or the Great White Spirit or another god. The Masons are up front with their requirements, so exactly where is the "deception?"
 
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So instead, Christian usage often utilizes the simple generic "God" rather than the fuller expression of our belief in the Trinity. But in doing so, they employ a term which an English speaker who professes a faith other than Christianity, may well use to refer to God when speaking of their own religion. In fact, in the very language from which we get our word "God," the Greek, Qeos is itself a generic word also. The general pattern of the Septuagint translation of the OT into Greek, was to translate "Elohim" with the generic Qeos, and "Yahweh" with the generic "kurios," or "Lord." Yet the Septuagint translators did not seem to be deterred by the fact that they were using a word which to a Greek person could actually be interpreted to mean Zeus.

Well said.

It is worth further noting that the term "Allah," known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, is actually used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to "God."
 
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Rev Wayne

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To Rev Wayne,
Thank you for the explanation of what you meant by term, but disciples of Jesus Christ know God as Father Son and Holy Spirit, so did Paul and so did the writer of Hebrews.
Don't be asinine, it's not very becoming. You know good and well that as a Christian I know God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit same as you do. You also know, but apparently wish to appear as though you don't, that my point was not "this is what I believe about God and all that I believe about God." Take that song and dance to Hollywood, maybe you'll find a buyer. I was very clear in what I presented, which was not merely stating an opinion anyway, it was by direct quote from a Christian source, and clearly shows that Christians do not walk around saying "Father Son and Holy Spirit" with every single mention of God, but quite often simply use the generic "God."

And with the generic usage so clearly a part of Christian usage, DESPITE what you and I both know already about who God is, your accusation is false, the generic does not automatically make it equivalent to--what did you call it--deception? Strange notion, thinking that every time Christians simply say "God" rather than all three designations, that they are somehow being "deceptive." But that's pretty much where your theory winds up.

The question remains GAOTU can be seen by people of other religions as their god.
On, so you're only asking a question?
Well, the fact is, "God" can be (and is) seen by people of other religions as the God referred to by their religion.


If Freemasonry were a Christian organisation it wouldnt be having GAOTU but God the Father Son and Holy Spirit who created the universe.
Nobody has made any such claim, that Freemasonry is a "Christian organization." But neither is it thereby anti-Christian. It's not a religion at all. But the accusation is false, because "Architect of the universe" is exactly what John Calvin used to refer to the Creator.

[QUOTE=brightmorningstar;54308692]
Freemasonry has no reason to require members have faith in 'a god'.
[/QUOTE]
Nor, for that matter, do the scouts, but they do have the requirement. And since they are so much more closely aligned with and supported by the church, and with the potential for so much greater influence upon the church as a result of those affiliations, you really need to go to the BSA forum and bend their ears awhile. But only if you want to be consistent. For all I know, you may simply wish to remain inconsistent. Not to mention ineffective, since you might actually prove a deterrent if you witnessed to Scouts, in which you would find people much more likely not to have it settled in their thinking already about who God is.
 
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Rev Wayne

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To Archivist,
If as Rev Wayne is saying, GAOTU is God it wouldn’t be in line with Christ’s NT teaching to let people assume it might not be.
Then you need to get on board with your thinking in regard to the church, and start telling people that every place they speak of "God" they need to say instead, "Father Son and Holy Spirit," so they don't leave open the chance that someone else can use the word "God" to refer to any other god of any other religion.

If one generic is wrong on account of its ability to be misused by those of other religions, then why is it RIGHT to use another generic?

Are you going to claim it's what we've become accustomed to, so we can't change it now? Or are you going to try to claim the principle is somehow different? (I assure you it's not.) What exactly is it about this concept of "deception" of yours that you apply it in such one-sided fashion? If using a generic is wrong, then you ought to apply it in every circumstance, every usage.

The fact is, you know you can't do that, because to do so, you would actually be going against Christian practice.
 
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O.F.F.

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Hello Archivist,

I have a few questions to ask you, if you don't mind answering them.

Given your defense of it, you seem to be in favor of Freemasonry. Is it fair to assume you are a Mason? If so, are you a member under the Grand Lodge of PA?

Also, I see you attend St. Peter's Lutheran Church in PA. What Synod are they affiliated with? Are you aware that many Lutheran Synods have official policy statements opposing Masonic membership? Do you know your own Synod's position regarding the Lodge?

Thanks, in advance, for your reply.

Sincerely O.F.F., not from
 
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wayseer

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Hello Archivist,

I have a few questions to ask you, if you don't mind answering them.

Given your defense of it, you seem to be in favor of Freemasonry. Is it fair to assume you are a Mason? If so, are you a member under the Grand Lodge of PA?

Also, I see you attend St. Peter's Lutheran Church in PA. What Synod are they affiliated with? Are you aware that many Lutheran Synods have official policy statements opposing Masonic membership? Do you know your own Synod's position regarding the Lodge?

Thanks, in advance, for your reply.

Sincerely O.F.F., not from

Who cares about what church elder/leaders might say about FM? Archbishop Jensen of Sydney hates FM, along with women and homosexuals. I mean, in the 21st century, are these ravings actually taken on board as somehow 'informed' authority? I don't think so?

The other aspect which no one seems to acknowledge is that FM do not talk about religion, or politics, whilst in lodge.
 
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O.F.F.

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Who cares about what church elder/leaders might say about FM? Archbishop Jensen of Sydney hates FM, along with women and homosexuals. I mean, in the 21st century, are these ravings actually taken on board as somehow 'informed' authority? I don't think so?

The other aspect which no one seems to acknowledge is that FM do not talk about religion, or politics, whilst in lodge.

Let me remind you, first of all, that the authorities of church and state are ordered of the Lord (Romans 13:1). And if one is to ignore the concerned findings of their church leaders whom God has place over them as shepherds than they defy God, not man; and are of a religion unto themselves.

As for you NOT acknowledging religious discussion in the Lodge, let me again remind you that if you are aware of the Masonic lectures of the Lambskin Apron, the Common Gavel, and the Hiramic Legend, just to name a few, than you are misleading the 'uninformed' readers that religion isn't discussed in the Lodge. Perhaps specific religions or denominations, such as your Anglican, are not discussed, but the religion of Freemasonry is thoroughly discussed in every Masonic lodge.

"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instructions in religion...This is the true religion revealed to the ancient (Masonic) patriarchs; which Masonry has taught for many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time endures...It is the universal, eternal, immutable religion, such as God planted in the heart of universal humanity. ... The ministers of this religion are all Masons who comprehend it;" (emphasis added)

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, pages 213-219
 
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Archivist

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Hello Archivist, I have a few questions to ask you, if you don't mind answering them.

Sure.

Given your defense of it, you seem to be in favor of Freemasonry. Is it fair to assume you are a Mason? If so, are you a member under the Grand Lodge of PA?

I addressed this earlier, but I certainly do not expect you to go back and read the entire thread (which has become rather lengthy). No, I am not a Mason, nor do I have any intention on becomming a Mason. I have several relatives who are Masons, others who are deceased who were Masons, and some of my best friends are Masons. My experience is that they are a good organization.

Also, I see you attend St. Peter's Lutheran Church in PA. What Synod are they affiliated with? Are you aware that many Lutheran Synods have official policy statements opposing Masonic membership? Do you know your own Synod's position regarding the Lodge?

Actually the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod as well as several other smaller Lutheran bodies, are officially opposed to Masonic membership. The ELCA, which is by far the largest Lutheran body in America and to which I belong, does not have such a policy.
 
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O.F.F.

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I addressed this earlier, but I certainly do not expect you to go back and read the entire thread (which has become rather lengthy). No, I am not a Mason, nor do I have any intention on becomming a Mason. I have several relatives who are Masons, others who are deceased who were Masons, and some of my best friends are Masons. My experience is that they are a good organization.

Thanks for answering my questions. Given your reply, that explains it! You believe Freemasonry is 'good' because of the people you know who are or were in it. That makes perfect sense. If I, even as a former Mason, were to judge Freemasonry based solely upon my experience with those involved in it, I too would conclude that "they" are a 'good' organization.

However, our (O.F.F./Ex-Masons for Jesus) contention is NOT against Masons. It is against the TEACHINGS of Freemasonry. I trust if you were fully aware of "its" teachings as compared to biblical Christinity, then you too would oppose 'it,' not 'them.'
 
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Rev Wayne

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"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instructions in religion...This is the true religion revealed to the ancient (Masonic) patriarchs; which Masonry has taught for many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time endures...It is the universal, eternal, immutable religion, such as God planted in the heart of universal humanity. ... The ministers of this religion are all Masons who comprehend it;" (emphasis added)

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, pages 213-219

Quoting out of context, again, I see. Hard to believe you'd do this again, as many times as you've seen the context filled in:

First, let's fill in what goes between these two sentences where the ellipsis occurs:

Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instructions in religion...This is the true religion revealed to the ancient (Masonic) patriarchs; which Masonry has taught for many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time endures.

Here is the full context:

Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion. For here are inculcated disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devotedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, relief for those in want, Faith, Hope, and Charity. Here we meet as brethren, to learn to know and love each other. Here we greet each other gladly, are lenient to each other's faults, regardful of each other's feelings, ready to relieve each other's wants. This is the true religion revealed to the ancient patriarchs; which Masonry has taught for many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time endures. If unworthy passions, or selfish, bitter, or revengeful feelings, contempt, dislike, hatred, enter here, they are intruders and not welcome, strangers uninvited, and not guests.
I fail to see anything he describes there which would be antagonistic to the Christian faith.


Second, we will fill in what goes in between here where the ellipsis occurs, as well as some material that occurs just after the last part of this quote:

It is the universal, eternal, immutable religion, such as God planted in the heart of universal humanity. ... The ministers of this religion are all Masons who comprehend it

Here is the fuller quote for this one as well:

It is the universal, eternal, immutable religion, such as God planted it in the heart of universal humanity. No creed has ever been long-lived that was not built on this foundation. It is the base, and they are the superstructure. "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." "Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?" The ministers of this religion are all Masons who comprehend it and are devoted to it; its sacrifices to God are good works, the sacrifices of the base and disorderly passions, the offering up of self-interest on the altar of humanity, and perpetual efforts to attain to all the moral perfection of which man is capable.

To make honor and duty the steady beacon-lights that shall guide your life-vessel over the stormy seas of time; to do that which it is right to do, not because it will insure you success, or bring with it a reward, or gain the applause of men, or be "the best policy," more prudent or more advisable; but because it is right, and therefore ought to be done; to war incessantly against error, intolerance, ignorance, and vice, and yet to pity those who err, to be tolerant even of intolerance, to teach the ignorant, and to labor to reclaim the vicious, are some of the duties of a Mason.
So, in a discourse designed to try to prove Masonry "a" religion, why would someone omit by ellipsis the very material which shows exactly which religion that would be (if it were one)? As anyone can see, if you wish to paint this as a declaration by Pike of Masonry as "a" religion, then you have to take into consideration the ENTIRE context, and not just what you wish to pick and choose. The religion that Pike has just declared to be the religion of a Mason, can be none other than the religion of the Bible. The WHOLE Bible, for Pike quoted from both Testaments.

(emphasis added)

Readers, take note of this particular deception. The omission by ellipsis was bad enough, but that's not the only way the deception is accomplished. In this particular case, it is by addition, and by that, I mean, more has been added to this than mere "emphasis." You can see that in what was "quoted," the phrase "ancient (Masonic) patriarchs" appears. But in the original, (Masonic) does not appear.

This is the attempt to make it look as though Pike intended by "patriarchs" something other than the biblical patriarchs. This simply is not true. Pike was speaking of the biblical patriarchs, this becomes even clearer when he includes citations of James 1:17 and Isaiah 58:6.

Apparently this accuser does not want you to see what is contained within the omitted portions. Maybe there's a fear that if allowed to see things in full for themselves, people will actually think for themselves and reject fabricated accusations like this one.
 
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brightmorningstar

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To Archivist,
Now why would Freemasonry require people to believe in a god? If GAOTU is God the Father Son and Holy Spirit then why not say that?
Their supreme being would be Allah or the Great White Spirit or another god.
Ok but their god isn’t a supreme being then is he, freemasonry just allows some to be deceived into thinking it is. So Freemasonry doesn’t then know or share a supreme being some of them just think they do.

So back to my question, what is the point of supreme being and GAOTU if its not clear to some, and why ask people to believe in a god?
 
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