Can a child molester be saved?

[Jven79]

Based on Matthew 18:6, my opinion is not a chance

 

[dreadnought]

Based on Matthew 18:6, my opinion is not a chance

John 3:16 would suggest otherwise.

 

[Jven79]

John 3:16 would suggest otherwise.

I respect your opinion...but the millstone punishment are the words of Jesus himself. And people will say it’s not the unforgivable sin, but the unforgivable sin is also mentioned by Jesus before he mentions this HARSH penalty.

 

[Kevin Snow]

Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God. ~1 Corinthians 4:5

The point is that it is God's judgment not ours. We all must continue to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. If God saves a man isn't that his choice? Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time.

 

[ubicaritas]

Based on Matthew 18:6, my opinion is not a chance

You are misreading that quote then. When Jesus speaks of "little ones", he's talking about his rank and file disciples, not children. He's warning his disciples about causing scandal that leads to loss of faith. We should seek to avoid spiritual abuse, the sort of thing that was bread and butter for the religion of his pharisaical opponents.

Jesus frequently uses hyperbole in his speech, as well. That means that he might not mean that literally, but he's expressing the intensity of how we should view scandalizing a persons faith.

Hurting a child is a sin but it's not unforgivable.

 

[Jven79]

You are misreading that quote then. When Jesus speaks of "little ones", he's talking about his rank and file disciples, not children. He's warning his disciples about causing scandal that leads to loss of faith.

Hurting a child is a sin but it's not unforgivable.

Well what if someone caused a disciple to lose their faith then?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

If the molester asks forgiveness AND stops molessing children, yes. He also needs to turn himself in to the authorities so they will deal with it from the law of the land side.

Matt is not talking about child molesting, there is a deeper meaning that you must dig out. Never make a doctrine out of a sentense lifted out of a paragraph...ever.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Well what if someone caused a disciple to lose their faith then?

They will be held accountable by God and the law of the land, however, God never withholds forgiveness from a true repenter.

 

[JAM2b]

I absolutely believe they can be.

I always took that verse to mean to lead children away from the Lord, faith, and salvation through either legalism, bad teachings, or to cause them not to believe in Jesus.

 

[ubicaritas]

Well what if someone caused a disciple to lose their faith then?

Then they should stop doing that if possible. But it's not unforgivable.

Ironically, many American evangelicals frequently scandalize the faith of others. I once knew a transwoman that was a Buddhist and she wanted nothing to do with anything Christian. She'ld been physically assaulted throughout highschool. I think that might be a good example of what Jesus was talking about. When you make somebody feel so hurt they want nothing to do with him.

 

[ubicaritas]

I absolutely believe they can be.

I always took that verse to mean to lead children away from the Lord, faith, and salvation through either legalism, bad teachings, or to cause them not to believe in Jesus.

That's close to the truth but "little ones" means more than children. I asked my pastor about this once and that was the response he gave me.

I am the victim of scandal/spiritual abuse myself and it made me walk away from being a Christian for several years.

 

[JAM2b]

I have been harmed by Christians as well, and even ended up with a group that was actually a cult for a short time. I still have a certain level of uneasiness when it comes to organized churches. I keep trying though.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I've wondered the same as OP about that scripture. Seems pretty straightforward...still, I just don't know.

 

[Jven79]

If the molester asks forgiveness AND stops molessing children, yes. He also needs to turn himself in to the authorities so they will deal with it from the law of the land side.

Matt is not talking about child molesting, there is a deeper meaning that you must dig out. Never make a doctrine out of a sentense lifted out of a paragraph...ever.

You are kind of making it seem like salvation is works based

 

[Kenny'sID]

You are misreading that quote then. When Jesus speaks of "little ones", he's talking about his rank and file disciples, not children.

when you read the verse prior you see it's about children. That in itself leaves little doubt as I see it, but the fact he used the term "little", why in the world would he refer to the disciples as that?

Still, I'll ask why do you think he is talking disciples there?

 

[Kenny'sID]

You are kind of making it seem like salvation is works based

And you are kind of acting like those living a lifestyle of murder pedophilia, whatever, at the time of death... as long as they say they have faith they are still on the way to heaven.

But yeah some do believe that nonsense.

 

[ubicaritas]

when you read the verse prior you see it's about children. That in itself leaves little doubt as I see it, but the fact he used the term "little", why in the world would he refer to the disciples as that?

Still, I'll ask why do you think he is talking disciples there?

You aren't reading the passage with critical tools. You're reading it just on a surface level and assuming the ideas are automatically connected, as if it were a newspaper. The Gospels are not necessarily in a neat thematic ordering, but can often jump around (and in the original Greek there aren't even spaces between words, and the chapter markings are mostly arbitrary, for instance, they do not appear until centuries later). The second passage containing this verse (verse 6) is generalized advice, it is probably not even connected to the story of Jesus blessing children. It's in a separate paragraph, so this is a clue to the reader.

Lets look at this verse from the NIV:

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble,

"Little ones" are not necessarily just children, but any believer, as more modern translations often make clear. This verse is a prologue of sorts to the rest of the paragraph, which is about scandal in general.

 

[Jven79]

And you are kind of acting like those living a lifestyle of murder pedophilia, whatever, at the time of death... as long as they say they have faith they are still on the way to heaven.

But yeah some do believe that nonsense.

With TRUE saving faith comes repentance. Repentance happens because you are saved, it is not the source of it.

 

[JIMINZ]

Based on Matthew 18:6, my opinion is not a chance

.
First, your verse, is speaking about Christians, not about children in general.

Second.

Isa. 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Thirdly.

Rom. 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

This last verse means, we have all taken our part in placing Jesus on that Cross, no one is any better than anyone else, there are no degrees of Sin with God, all sin deserves the Death penalty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Pedophile but we all need to understand where we stand ourselves in the overall plan of God.

 

[ubicaritas]

And you are kind of acting like those living a lifestyle of murder pedophilia, whatever, at the time of death... as long as they say they have faith they are still on the way to heaven.

But yeah some do believe that nonsense.

This is not even recognizable to me as a Christian doctrine. Not even Catholics preach such a doctrine.

It's never been about what we say or do, it's about what we receive through faith by grace. That is not a work on our part , it is a work of God .